Getting into 30k with the First Legion

[Joasht]

After weeks of contemplating and reading, I've finally decided on the Dark Angels.

 

While their Legion rules aren't out yet, what do you guys reckon (based on the fluff) would be suitable picks for them?

 

I'm personally leaning towards a more "elite" army of sorts with more toys (Terminators and Land Raiders), since I'd reason that being the first legion they'd probably have a fairly decent armory and a bunch of veterans to go with it.

 

Therefore, I'm toying with the idea of essentially a 30k "Deathwing" of sorts, with Land Raiders (leaning towards Achilles, Spartan, and possibly even the good "old" 40k one, which is quite survivable with melta resistance) and Terminators. I'm also thinking of some Dreadnoughts, particularly the Leviathan.

 

I'd appreciate any suggestions or discussions on:

1) General 30k advice (list building, shopping, money saving, etc.).

2) Dark Angels (fluff, conversion ideas, inspiration, etc.).

 

Thanks!

[Ania Redfang]

I'm going 1st legion too, though my thinking was a bit different, I'm also going along the "toys" route, lots of plasma pistols, artificer armour, volkite and stuff on everything. Also power swords and shields for that knightly vibe wherever I can. And robes, lots of robes.

 

I hit a bit of a dilemma whether I wanted to go with Luther's side or The Lion's, Terra or Caliban, with my force. I think I've decided to bodge it and do a bit of both, but sticking with loyalists and the Lion mainly. I'm setting the force in the time after the 1st were reuinited with The Lion... so there's some Calibanite influence, and some influence from The Order, which is where the swords and robes come from, but they are definitely The Emperor's 1st through and through, no Fallen for now.

 

The Dark Angels can be taken in so many ways in 30k, it is a bit intimidating, at least for me. Your ideas seem equally cool, and I'd love to see a full 30k Deathwing force using like Pride of the Legion, led by The Lion or Corswain or even Luther.

 

If you haven't read the HH novels for the DA they are worth it, but I think that the short stories are more interesting, Savage Weapons and The Lion, as well as bits in The Night Lords stories from around that time. Corswain seems cool and I want to see more of him, as does Nemiel for a time.

 

And Librarians, gotta have some of those after reading about The Lion's ending of the DA's following of Nikkea. Really cool, and a side to him I didn't expect to see.

 

Anyway, I look forward to seeing your armies, I'm starting mine when my BaC is delivered, hopefully in time for Loyalty and Treachery.

 

For The Lion, Caliban and The Emperor. :)

 

TCOTH

[Hesh Kadesh]

Not entirely sure what you mean by "general 30K advice" in regards to list building. We have no rules for the Dark Angels to build off yet, which makes it doubly hard to provide suggestions, and triply hard because we have no Black Library novels outside of "the Lion" short and the two early book (which dealt with individuals rather than the legion itself). Savage weapons is another book, but that's not in reference to much of the legion, just the Primarch itself, mostly.

 

So, all we have are pesonal biases and a 20+ year old Index Astartes article to base what we know of them, where the Index Astartes has been consistently overridden, ignored and outright called as lies in other circumstances (although that was in references to Alpha Legion). 

 

If you were to wait a couple of months, you'll have access to a new book in the FW Heresy series, which provides the most basic of rules needed to run the legion (the legiones astartes rule, which is somewhat similar to chapter tactics in 40k), but you will not receive the full treatment for at least another 6-8 months past that date at an estimate. However, hopefully, there will be some more inspirational fluff stuff there in how the DA operate, and allow people to make a more comprehensive list, based on that information.

 

In regards to Money Saving, well, the Battle for Calth provides the cheapest source of Terminators. Cataphractii Terminators bought from FW cost £48 for 5. For £95, you get 6, but also a Dreadnought, and 31 Tactical Marines (including characters and special weapons). If you bought Space Marine Terminators, they are £28, which isn't as bad (you can get 3 Terminator sets for that price); although depending on how much of a purist you are for Legionary gear, all of the 40k/post heresy iconography like the Crux Terminatus or the Aquila symbols might well be a bit of a problem unless you enjoy taking a file and green stuff to the models and are one of those masochists.

 

The other "problem" with the Terminator Set from games workshop is that you miss out on some of the ability of the Legion Terminator Squads. They get access to Combi-Weapons, Reaper Autocannons, PlasmaBlasters and they cannot take the Cataphractii Set, which makes them Slow and Purposeful in exchange for an improved Invulnerable Save, nor do they get access to Storm Shields or Assault Cannons, which are the purview of Imperial Fists and Salamanders for the former, and Imperial Fists and Blood Angels in the latter.

 

The Calth set has its own issues - namely that the squad is forced to take power fists or chainfists if you are unable to modify the Terminators. There's nothing wrong with that, but a squad of Combi-Weapon and Powerfists comes to 235pts, which is rather expensive.

 

There are other people who are may be better placed to advice on getting stuff for cheaper though, and you may know of other stockists who can do it for cheaper.

 

In regards to list building, until in 2 months when get book VI which provides us with a little bit more detail, it's hard to judge - there are 2 generic rules you can use, providing stubborn or furious charge to your non-vehicle space marines, and there is equally arguments for which one you can use. Stubborn is a brilliant rule - unlike 40K, the most important change IMHO is that Space marines don't have "And the shall know no fear", meaning that they can be swept. Not having to test on a Sweeping Advance thanks to not taking negative penalties on the morale test.

 

That said, it will change within a couple of weeks, anyhow.

 

In regards to how armies are built up, you need the usual - 2 troops and a HQ. In addition, if you pick up a Chapter Master level character (a Praetor), then you get the ability to modify your force organisation chart or the battlefield roles that certain units are. In your instance, the "Pride of the Legion" list allows you to take Terminator Armoured bodies as Troops, at the expense of giving up Victory points if you lose all of your veteran/terminator units.

[Joasht]

Thanks for the replies thus far!

 

Not entirely sure what you mean by "general 30K advice" in regards to list building. We have no rules for the Dark Angels to build off yet, which makes it doubly hard to provide suggestions, and triply hard because we have no Black Library novels outside of "the Lion" short and the two early book (which dealt with individuals rather than the legion itself). Savage weapons is another book, but that's not in reference to much of the legion, just the Primarch itself, mostly.

 

Just a general guide as to what is good, and what isn't as good.

E.g. Assault Marines seem disproportionately expensive in 30k, and probably won't be seeing much play from me.

 

Given that a lot of the FW stuff costs a lot of money, I really don't want to spend money on something that looks cool but doesn't function on the tabletop.

[Slips]

Again, that depends on a LOT of Factors.

 

For Example: Assault Marines. Normally Overpriced For 10 Troop Bodies but:

 

Consider various Legiones Astartes or Rite of War buffs.

• Death Guard Assault Marines under the Reaping Rite of War gain Move Through Cover and Rad Grenades.
• Under Angels Wrath RoW, they gain Hit & Run Free and aren't forced to take a Transport like any other Troops Selection (In this case, usually is a Storm Eagle)
• Night Lords who outnumber gain +1 to wound with Bulky Models counting as 2. Your 10 man assault marine is effectively size 20 for in this scenario.
• Iron Hands Infantry in general gain -1S to shooting against them. Makes for effectively T5 Assault Marines vs shooting.
• Raven Guard gain Furious Charge Free (with a slightly debatable access to Infiltrate)
• Alpha Legion Assault Marines gain Mutable Tactics; infiltrate being a choice.

They can also pack 3 Power Weapons for 10 Bodies, if you're a big spender, have the option for Combat Shields for an Invulnerable Save or even Squad Wide Melta Bombs instead of being a Sarge only option.

 

So, what this means is its like Hesh Said, without knowing the Dark Angels rules any and all our suggestions would be pure speculation and doesn't really help you much if we suggest Generally OK Generic Units to buy/make a list with since what you end up with is a Flavorless, Generic Legion army that can be used Regardless of Legion Astartes Rules; something you want to avoid ESPECIALLY since you're investing so much money.

 

The main draw to 30k, imo, is having a Flavorful Army that reflects a favored aspect of yours from the legion you've taken up.

 

+++

 

If you want a Generic,Legionless Guideline for a basic 30k Army that has some cool stuff, I'd go for:

 

HQ

Consul: Vigilator (joins Seekers)

 

Troops:

10x Tac Marines

-Rhino

10x Tac Marines

-Rhino

 

Elites:

Rapiers: 3x Gaviton Cannons

Rapiers: 3x Thudd Guns

 

 

Fast Attack:

Primaris Lightning: Kraken Penetrators, Ground Tracking Auguries, Battle Servitor Controls.

9x Seekers: 9x Combi-Weapons

-Land Raider Proteus.

 

Heavy Support:

Deredeo Dreadnought: Aiolos Missile launcher

Legion Artillery Battery: 3x Medusas

Leviathan Dreadnought: Grav-Flux Bombard, Phosphex Discharger, Claw/Drill as you see fit.

-Dreadnought Drop Pod

 

Low:

Typhon Siege Tank