SkimaskMohawk Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 So in the command squad options for taking bikes/terminator armour/jump packs/jet bikes it says if their Legion Praetor is equipped with one of the previous then they may take that option as well. The Justaerin and Deathshroud also say Praetor or Primarch. My question is if people think its meant to be only the Legion Praetor who can enable alternate gear or if its supposed to be applied to all characters who can take command squads. My opinion is that all characters that can take command squads should be able to modify them like a praetor; Abbadon, Typhon, Autek Mor, Golg and Kor Phaeron should be able to take terminator equipped command squads (especially the legion specific versions as Abbadon and Golg are their captains) and Corax and Curze should be able to get jump pack equipped command squads, to say nothing of the poor delegatus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I've messaged FW about this numerous times. They didn't actually understand what I was asking them, although I used Primarchs as that instance rather than other special characters. Just make up your own rules. The more I've come to understand it being like Age of Sigmar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4269006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I emailed them about this when Dorns rules were released. Because the command squad entry was written before the Delegatus came out I don't know if it applies, but if you take a Primarch you can take terminator armor or a jump pack/Jetbike if the Primarch has one. If you take a praetor you can pick between armor, but you can take a jump pack/jet bike if the praetor has one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4269261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 Thanks so far guys, my buddy and I wanted to get some feedback before potentially house ruling. I found it more frustrating to realize Abbadon couldn't take Justaerin or Terminators as a command squad, but of course primarchs that actually have terminator armour or packs also get screwed RAW Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4269275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Abbadon wears Terminator armour, he can definitely take Justaerin or a Terminator Command Squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4269296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 He's not a legion praetor, which is a separate unit entry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4269348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 If you're playing in the Heresy community, and it sounds reasonable and like FW flubbed, I'd say fair game to your interpretation. I don't think many people would disagree with you, the heresy forum is quite mature... ...usually... ...sometimes... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4269661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 So in the command squad options for taking bikes/terminator armour/jump packs/jet bikes it says if their Legion Praetor is equipped with one of the previous then they may take that option as well. My opinion is that all characters that can take command squads should be able to modify them like a praetor; Abbadon, Typhon, Autek Mor, Golg and Kor Phaeron should be able to take terminator equipped command squads (especially the legion specific versions as Abbadon and Golg are their captains) and Corax and Curze should be able to get jump pack equipped command squads, to say nothing of the poor delegatus. Well, your opinion is contrary to the rule as written. That doesn't mean to say you cannot do it, but if you do, it's a house rule. In the same way that Vulkan Hestan couldnt take a command squad in the 5th ed marine codex as he was not a "captain" per se (this has since been amended, with an explicit exception included) Your argument is similar to allowing the use of special legion terminator squads in place of Legion terminator squads in a Pride list. In a codex space marine army, does taking a (generic) character other than a captain on a bike allow you to take bikes as troops? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4269869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Legion terms are explicitly allowed under pride (in the rest books at least!). FW don't have the best grip on rules (nor do GW although they are admittedly getting better, but hey ho) and that in both such circumstances the changes were made can be construed one of two ways; it is intentional that The Master of the Legion that allows the unit to be taken can only modify if it is explicitly a Praetor, irrespective of if the model with the special rule is a Named Character, Primarch or otherwise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4269955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Legion terms are explicitly allowed under pride (in the rest books at least!). Oh, it says "terminator squads" not "legion terminator squads". I guess that counts. Maybe I was getting mixed up with another instance, like Alpharius's rule for stealing reserves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4270339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Legion terms are explicitly allowed under pride (in the rest books at least!). Oh, it says "terminator squads" not "legion terminator squads". I guess that counts. Maybe I was getting mixed up with another instance, like Alpharius's rule for stealing reserves. Red book goes a step further and specifically mentioned legion specific terminator squads that are an elites choice Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4270345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 Well, your opinion is contrary to the rule as written. That doesn't mean to say you cannot do it, but if you do, it's a house rule. In the same way that Vulkan Hestan couldnt take a command squad in the 5th ed marine codex as he was not a "captain" per se (this has since been amended, with an explicit exception included) Your argument is similar to allowing the use of special legion terminator squads in place of Legion terminator squads in a Pride list. In a codex space marine army, does taking a (generic) character other than a captain on a bike allow you to take bikes as troops? I'm very aware that it would be a house rule; the whole point was to get feedback on the potential house rule because the current version doesn't make sense for anyone who has Master of the Legion (and can therefor take a command squad), but isn't a Legion Praetor. It would be like if Kosarro Khan could take a command squad, but were restricted from taking bikes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4270380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I honestly can't imagine Abbadon without Justaerin by his side or Typhon strolling into battle without his own Deathshroud. That being said, you run into issues with characters like Sevatar, who, even if Night Lords eventually get Atramentar, would still be barred from using them due to the fact that he isn't wearing Terminator armour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4270678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 There wouldn't be any special ruling for sevetar just the master of the legion guys with the appropriate loadout Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4270728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 My point is, would non-TDA equipped characters be able to take Legion-specific TDA Command Squads? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4270861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 No, not unless the legion specific squads are more permissive. Right now you can only take the Justaerin or Deathshroud for Terminator Praetors or the Primarchs; the change would be Terminator equipped Master of the Legion can also select select the Terminator option. Terminators get Terminators Bikes get Bikes Jump Packs get Jump Packs Jet Bikes get Jet Bikes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4270922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Alright, so Command Squads in general, not just Legion-specific options. I agree, though... all characters should have an option (if they have Master of the Legion) to take a Command Squad. Has anyone contact FW about this? You'd think this would be a rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4271000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Alright, so Command Squads in general, not just Legion-specific options. I agree, though... all characters should have an option (if they have Master of the Legion) to take a Command Squad. Has anyone contact FW about this? You'd think this would be a rule. There is very little point in contacting Forge World about rule clarifications any more, they were reasonably good at answering (about two years ago and more), then they went through a stage of giving crazy inconsistent answers which would contradict the main rules and other responses given, and in the last twelve months they have primarily reverted to a standard reply of discuss it with your group and play what feels best. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4271012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Hmph... that's ridiculously lame. Perhaps someone should bring this up at the next Open Day in the Q&A. If anything, maybe they can either clarify then and there or add an addendum to the next Red Book to cover this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4271019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 @DuskRaider: I'm not sure I follow; all Masters of the Legion can already take Command Squads in Artificer Armour, one must be a Legion Praetor with the appropriate upgrade to further diversify the Command Squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4271020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Right, my point is that something like that should have already been written into the rules instead of having the players try to figure it out themselves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4271030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 *Slowclap gif* We know, but knowing what it should be doesn't mean that it changes what it is. Half the rulebook is disfunctional. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4271047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Well then rule it yourself, but IMO it's a no brainer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4271065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I'm not sure you understood the purpose of the discussion. That said, new FAQ resolves it for Terminator Armour, but not for Jump Packs et al. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4271386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 I think their acknowledging part of the problem helps give weight towards allowing all masters of the legion to get the relevant upgrade on their command squad. Can't leave Eidolon, Curze and Corax out to dry lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317862-command-squad-options-question/#findComment-4271588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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