T'Karon Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Ok so I am relatively new to the Heresy Train. My legion of choice after many months of debate (and a interim period where I had 'settled' on the Ultramarines) is the Thousand Sons. Now the question I have is about a certain weapon that gets a lot of bad press. The Rotor Cannon. From what I hear, for the Tac Support Squad there is almost no reason to take the Rotor Cannon. I do not have the Red Book (yet) so could someone please explain to me why they are so bad. I mostly want them because I think they look awesome. Are they so bad that using them will cripple my chances of doing well? I am not really all caught up in the competitive side of the game, but are they actually so rubbish I should not consider taking them? Thanks, Brothers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 S3 Ap5/6 Salvo 3/4 30" range Thats why. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4269271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 What if I told you, it was possible to arm your Marines with lasguns? What would you say? AWESOME RIGHT? Nah, you wouldn't like everyone else. If they were S4, they might have a case... But even then... Theyre cheap sure but a tactical squad can fury of the legion, at a similar range for a similar effect with more bodies and shots. While not the be all and end all, the math hammer brings a full 40 shots at... Almost 3 dead Marines. Cant argue with you on how cool they look though. All this said though, power to you for being the dude who runs a ten man rotor cannon unit. Balls of ceramite. PEW PEW PEW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4269273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'Karon Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 Thanks for the quick feedback. (I love that about this forum) I see what you mean. They are most probably the worst choice of weapon for the squad. I still think I might have to get some though. @Charlo: I would run two 10 man squads, . I think it is a shame that they are so redundant compared to the other options, but I am that idiot who outfits his units in the way that is coolest/fluffiest (in my own opinion of course). Again thanks for the feedback brothers! I will be sure to give "some" of my support squads more useful weaponry Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4269276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 There will be militia armies you might want to have the rotor cannon squad built for. They do look cool too, but having 40 shots at range will help thin inducted levy ranks for those who bring the dirty large squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4269317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I agree with Helterskelter. The rotor cannon was designed in mind to take out geq (guardman or equivalent units). Those 40 shots into a militia squad or cultist horde would be a rather cheap way to clear out the refuge. Though I will yield my arguement if the math doesn't support that belief. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4269376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomMarine Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Why would u want them when u can chooooooooooooom Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4269485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Comedy option- misfortune and x20 rotor cannons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4269516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Comedy option- misfortune and x20 rotor cannonsThen the comedy flips: the guys who you were shooting at are Iron Hands. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4269728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Rotor cannons are only useful on Vorax because they get poison rounds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4269780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tychii Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Who knows, maybe they will all get poison moving forward in the next red book Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4270093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Who knows, maybe they will all get poison moving forward in the next red book I hope not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4270237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 It's not that when used against the intended target rotors are bad, it's that they cost as much as things like volkite calivers and chargers. Which will pierce 5+ and deflag additional bodies. They're bad for their points by comparison. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4270522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Agreed. They should maybe be a free exchange for the base flamers. I wouldn't mind some of the more "willing" legions getting access to poison rounds with them though; like the Death Guard, Alpha Legion, Raven Guard or Iron Hands. It'd probably have to come as part of a RoW or something though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4270523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 The other thing to consider is that the closest thing to their intended target is a militia list. Which is a brand new army and some versions have troops in 3+ armor anyway, which funny enough does make rotors S4. The model, lore, and cool factor are 10/10. They just don't have a place in the Horus Heresy with marines. Even if the Great Crusade got an expansion, due to game mechanics, volkite is still the way to go. Even if they added poison rounds, stock with the purchase of rotors no way would anyone pay more points, that makes them only mildly more effective against large automata. Automata that warrant AT fire. I really don't know how to fix rotors other than just making them free. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4270529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Shred could do well, to represent the sheer weight of fire, but it only really math hammers out at about another 2 marines dead. Coukd combine them with some lucky psychic powers like the rending one or negative enemy toughness, but that's putting more resources to make a bad weapon usable, instead of normal weapons amazing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4270622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 They can serve a use in Blood in the Void Missions, where they can move and fire at full BS, with Rending. Makes them better, and a full BS reactive fire. That said, Volkite chargers bring S5, and are only 3" shorter ranged if you're continually moving, but if you can get an open space killing floor or corridor which opens into empty space, then the unit can be mobile but then just open up at full range. Volkite Calivers being heavy are less mobile and can be got around thanks to los blockers in ZM games. Another annoyance is that they do not work with Augury Scanners. When talking about buffs as well, while you can make them more useable, you can make other units more useable in place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4270627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
disease Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 the purpose of rotor cannons is to act as an alternative proxy for heavy bolters :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4271007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 To gain rending an attack needs S4. So an advanced weapons grenadier squad can do it. But regular rotors are S3. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4271053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 the purpose of rotor cannons is to act as an alternative proxy for heavy bolters :) And we all know how widely used those are enmasse :P Although could look sweet for sniper vet heavy bolters... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4271300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Wunderbar. Ye, Rotors suck. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4271381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Rotors do indeed suck but they look fantastic. With Volkytes as an option there is no need at all to consider the Rotor Cannon, unfortunately. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4272382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 30 is hits, 15ish wounds from rotor cannon vs geq full range 12 ish hits, 10 ish wounds from caliver full range plus maybe 5+ wounds from deflag. This is without any fnp militia madness, now the rotor cannon can move and fire, granted at reduced range, but the mobility is there for a little more avoidance, caliver don't get that option. Chargers are riskier due to 15 inch would do slightly less, but if you've chargers you have probably got a pretty good reason for being that close. All in all approximately the same vs guard. Maybe the rotor cannon lucks out due to added mobility over the course of a full game. Vs marines it's definitely volkite all the way Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317878-a-question-of-value/#findComment-4272398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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