Misc Painting Questions - re: air-brush / glue questions

[sibomots]

Re: airbrush painting

 

1.  Does it really matter if the paint is labeled (or designed) for air brush use?  Eg.,  are "Citadel" paints fine with air-brush or shall I strive to locate specific paints that are labeled or designed with compounds for use with airbrush alone?  Are the Valejo paint line (the non-air labeled variety most often found at hobby/game shops) just fine?

 

2.  What ratio is ideal for paint mixing for airbrush ? 1 unit paint to 10 unit water?  And, what mixing ratio of that to flow-aid-type additives?  1 unit flow-aid to 10 unit "thinned paint" ?  What ratios work for you (assume gravity fed Badger type open)

 

Re: glue

 

Some glue seems to melt the plastic upon contact (intent I suppose to weld the two parts together).  

 

Some glue seems to not melt the plastic upon contact (think Superglue)

 

Pro and con for this?   On the melty glue type, I run into problems sometimes because it deforms the plastic enough that I end up with pits or burrs that need to be cleaned up. 

 

 

Glue technique question:

 

Let's say I'm attaching at points -A- [see diagram attached] two sleeves/bushing halves that surround a shaft where I intend the shaft to remain to turn freely inside the final assembly.  Turret or hinge situation.  When I use either kind of glue (melty or non-melty) I run into a problem that the glue (despite my careful application) still "runs into the joint" fusing the shaft where I did not intend thus locking the rotation.

 

I've thought about this and contemplated a solution.  I wanted to run it by you:

 

If I were to coat the surface at surface -B- where the shaft meets the "sleeves/bushing" with say, petroleum jelly or pure silicon or something inert but jelly like then the presence of this material would block the flow of the glue into that same space. In otherwords "pack the joint with jelly silicon" so that the glue cannot go there. 

 

By "silicon" I mean literally silicon paste/jelly, not silicon adhesive.  I've even thought using the same sort of paste as heat-sink compound -- non-reactive, firm to stay in place, and viscous enough to not be moved out by the presence of liquid glue attempting to invade the volume between the shaft and the bushing.

 

Thanks,

 

Brother Sibo

 

Crummy Visio Diagram. Please excuse bad drafting.

 

http://sibomots.com/shaft.jpg

[captainblow]

I'm by no means a pro but I'll try to awnser the airbrush questions at least.

 

Nearly any paint is fine, the airbrush branded ones are mostly thinner, sometimes the metallics have finer pigment.

I personally prefer paint in dropper bottles (think vallejo) as its just easier to get them into the airbrush cup.

Regarding thinning ratios and flow aid I'll have to say, its all down to experience and personal preference. Diffrent brands, and even diffrent colours will require diffrent ratios.

 

I will rcommend getting some liquitex airbrush medium if you can get it. Its a mix of retarder and all kinds of goodies, generally works perfectly for thinning paints for airbrush use.

 

 

As for the glue, if you need a solid bond between plastic, use the melting kind. If you want to be able to seperate it at some point, use superglue imo.

[Ovidius Incertus]

1. No.  Most any acrylic will be fine if properly thinned, though performance and coverage as well as finish may depend on the particular brand of paint.  I airbrush Citadel, Vallejo MC, MA and GC ranges and Army Painter.  They all work, but none are quite the same.  Airbrushing VMA, for instance, provides a matte finish, but airbrushing VCG gives a glossy finish (at least with the reds I use).  Dunno why. 

 

Paint consistency varies from range to range; the Army Painter red I use is thick as can be, but thinned out it goes on just fine to a nice matte finish.

 

Agreed that dropper bottles are clearly superior; airbrushing Citadel colors is a beast and always involves wasted paint.  You could always buy empty dropper bottles and transfer Citadel colors to them.

 

Airbrushing metallics can be a bit more tricky, based on the size of the metallic chips in one range vs. another.  I stick to VMA metallics only, and then only through the airbrush when I need to cover large surfaces.  AND I still thin them.

 

2. For thinning, I use a 1:10 mix of flow aid to distilled water (keep this in a dropper).  Sometimes just water, if I'm lazy.  No particular ratio of thinner to paint, just so that it comes to a sort of milky consistency.  I'd start thin and do more thin layers as necessary rather than too thick and end up with a gunked up brush.  Always use thin layers.  Less than you think.  The minute you try too much, you get runs and blow marks in my experience.

 

3. Your gluing question is predicated on using plastic.  If you're using resin, it's moot, since you can't use plastic glue.

 

But, if talking plastic only, I'd go with plastic cement because it's more forgiving and you'll have time to figure out if your application has been too zealous before the two halves set.  Apply your glue, put your halves together and sit there and rotate the piece and you can largely prevent it from setting if any glue trickles into the shaft, in my experience.  Also, if you really mess it up, you can pry the two halves apart for quite some time, which is much more difficult with superglue.

 

What I would emphatically not use is the cement variety, since you have no control; I'd use liquid with a brush applicator.

 

I also wouldn't use a lubricant of any sort in there as a buffer.  Quite possibly it could work its way out and it would probably play hell on your painting.

[Firepower]

As a note for airbrushing with citadel paints, one way to avoid wasting a lot is to transfer the paint to the hopper with a brush (one you don't care about). It's not practical if you want a very full hopper, but to do simpler work, I drop in the Vallejo airbrush thinner first, then transfer one brush-full at a time, stirring with each new deposit until I get the proper consistency.

But overall, dropper bottles for the win. I'm slowly phasing out most of my GW paints

By the by, Vallejo airbrush thinner is the bomb. It takes very, very little to thin your paints to a proper consistency, and comes pretty cheap. I find things like water evaporate too quickly, which results in clogs, while things like flow improver or drying retarder make it so the paint goes on as liquid rather than that sorta dusting consistency you want from spraying.

And speaking of clogs, look into getting a bottle of Regdab lubricant. A slick needle helps to stave off dry tip.

For ideal consistency, you're going for a skim milk look. An easy-ish way to guage it is to push a bit of the paint up the side of the hopper with a brush. You want it to flow back down, and leave a thin liquid residue/stain in its wake.

[Bung]

Re: airbrush painting

 

1.  Does it really matter if the paint is labeled (or designed) for air brush use?  Eg.,  are "Citadel" paints fine with air-brush or shall I strive to locate specific paints that are labeled or designed with compounds for use with airbrush alone?  Are the Valejo paint line (the non-air labeled variety most often found at hobby/game shops) just fine?

 

2.  What ratio is ideal for paint mixing for airbrush ? 1 unit paint to 10 unit water?  And, what mixing ratio of that to flow-aid-type additives?  1 unit flow-aid to 10 unit "thinned paint" ?  What ratios work for you (assume gravity fed Badger type open)

 

 

 

 

You dont need specially labeled airbrush paints, cause you can thin the paints for airbrush use.

The paints labeled for airbrush are thought to be ready to use in your airbrush so you should not need to thin them.

 

Your second question is hard to answer, there are to much variables to give an overall recipt. 

It depends on your paint (brand, sort etc. even the same paint can diver from bottle to bottle), how nuch its thinned, muzzle size,  your pistol (they differ in the handling even its the same type), pressure, moist in the air, temperature etc. only to name the most important.

 

There are some things that dont work like old Citadel Foundation paints and a 0,2 mm muzzle.

 

My best tip is thin your paint 1:1 with thinner and start with 1,5 bar.

Then try and practice but only change one variable at a time. 

Play with pressure and paint until you find something that works for you.

 

I know a few painters working with an airbrush and all work with different dillutions and pressure even with the sam color so find the way that works for you the best.

 

@ Ovidus Incertus

 

If you want to airbrush metallics you have to  go for other brands Alcad II Metallics are designed for use with airbrush and work pretty good, Scalecolor Metallics work fine too in my experience.

[captainblow]

Regarding metallics I urge anyone to try http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/metal-color/family/33 , I've only tried two of their colours so far and those haven't disappointed. Very good coverage, no need for thinning at all in my application, and they're acrylic. (As compared to alclad II)

[Bartali]

Seconded for Vallejo Metal Color, love them for my GK.

 

On dropper bottles vs pots - I'm not that bothered these days. I use a pipette to transfer my paints and thinner into the airbrush cup, and then use a pipette to suck the paint and thinner up from the cup to mix it, then drop it back down into the cup. 

[Bung]

Regarding metallics I urge anyone to try http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/metal-color/family/33 , I've only tried two of their colours so far and those haven't disappointed. Very good coverage, no need for thinning at all in my application, and they're acrylic. (As compared to alclad II)

 

In my experience solvent based metallic paints just di it better for bigger areas. 

Tried to do a WW2 plane with acrylic based metallics and the result sucked cause it didnt geve me a good and even layer.

Tamiya, Alcad 2 or enamels work better for bigger models like tanks. 

[sibomots]

OK. Thanks Brothers.  I approach  my painting with as much solemnity as Black Templar's address their regimen.  If I was taped secretly I could be heard muttering vows of provocative ZEAL. 

 

I did some work on the units over the weekend (pictures not ready yet).  And I learned by trial a few things I wanted to share.

 

Priming the bare plastic was an issue.  I've painted a few dozen Black Templar units and checked over the results.  The overriding issue for me is the preparation of the priming layer.  One of two things happen for me:

 

1. Either I get too much orange peel in the primer

2. I get too much chalking texture.

 

The aresol cans of primer are mostly responsible for the orange-peel.  One thing to try to avoid this is to keep the model and paint as close to room temperature as possible.  The other is the brand of paint.   Of the three brands I use, I prefer the P3 primer.  The GW primer is OK and almost as good as going on without orange peel.  The third brand "Army Painter" has been a disaster.  I cannot figure out why their paint consistently goes on with orange peel texture.  

 

If you can manage it, airbrushing the primer is probably going to give the best luck on keeping the texture smooth as the original plastic surface and it will let you customize the color to suit your need. (I usually airbrush on a dark-grey or grey depending on the anticipated color of the area).

 

Chalking texture - I have been informed many times that the consistency I am looking for is skim milk and those words are true.  Even with the airbrushing, if I can keep the paint skim-milk consistency in the bowl, it will go on fine.   When it dries though, when the water evaporates and the paint pigments are bonded I still see a bit of chalking up.  It's a bit frustrating.  I am going to do some more experimenting with other mixtures to see if I can isolate the cause.

 

In general, I'm looking for a paint process that puts on a primer and base layer that retains the same smoothness as the original plastic.  That's my goal.  I'm getting better at it, but I have more practice to do.

 

Last, after the comments above I did side by side tests of the GW, AV and AV-Air and I gotta say that the AV-Air line is truly a blessing from the Emperor himself.  Goes on very smooth, requires very little tweaking with thinner.  Works great even out of a wet palette.

 

The GW cans are just plain annoying.  I suppose there's a population of painters that like the flip-top lid, but I find it difficult to use.  The top flops down, the paint is always really thick (after stirring up).  I suppose there's a technique I need to learn.

 

And, finally the AV Thinner product.  That stuff is really great.  Thins from a drop, and doesn't emulsify the paint.

 

I appreciate all the comments.  Thank you for the insights.

[Bung]

Maybe try an airbrush primer?

Vallejo and Scalecolor do them too, as i know. 

Some people prefer to clean their models with soapy water before priming / airbrushing to get rid of the fingerprints etc. (essential when you want to do a modell in full crome color).

 

There is another way to, get your primer from the can to the airbrush, works too and most primer doesnt need to be diluted.