New to HH, OOP Books and making the most out of BaC set

[Malakai]

So in a couple of weeks I'm going to finally get Betrayal at Calth. I'm going with the Sons of Horus Legion. I'm aware that the general consensus is that they are overpriced and underpowered compared to the newer legions. Doesn't concern me as I will have fun anyway. What I do need help with is developing my core troops with what I have available.

 

As I don't have the rules..they have been unavailable for ages now and was looking for advice on using the BaC box to it's fullest potential. I have decided I'm just buying one box but am open to picking up another 10 man tac , dread or terminator sprue off Ebay if I need to. Also bits such as hvy weapons and plasma guns from ebay to make specialist squads are not out of the question.

 

I would really like to use plastics as much as possible. I do prefer plastic to resin most of the time. As it takes me a while to paint and I have to split my hobby fund and time among other projects, I want to start this army with the intent of painting as I go. I don't want to be overwhelmed with too many models at the beginning either. Maybe when I'm finished with this starter set GW will have made some more plastic kits..like a rhino or something.

 

So starting off I will have the box set, perhaps an extra sprue or two,  FW decals and maybe a SoH upgrade kit for the plastics. If you only had these resources available to you how would you as a vet player go about making the most of your collection until you can expand it at a later date? Of course keeping in mind that it is a Sons army. The only thing I'm set on is painting up the termies as regular guys. I'll get some Justaerin at a later date. Oh and if it's a toss up between game function and fluff I'd lean more toward fluff than killy. Course I hope they don't end up being cupcakes either.

 

Really looking forward to this project. Thank you for your insight and tips.

[Marshal Loss]

The Sons of Horus are getting substantial changes this year so don't worry about their power level. Also, the SoH decals are being remade so you'll have to wait on them for now.

I'd recommend reading Books 1, 2 and 4 from the FW HH series. These deal with the Sons of Horus and if you want to play fluffy it's important to immerse yourself in their background and style of fighting. Their rules reflect the lore. My favourite is 4 (Conquest), which shows the Sons of Horus in their element. Inspiring stuff for all XVI players.

You basically have two choices at first: to run a 'Pride of the Legion' force where your troops are Veterans (2 special/heavy weapons per 10 guys) and Terminators, or run your marines as Tactical Marines (who are only armed with bolters, not special weapons) and keep your Terminators as an elites choice. Both choices are fine, and it's really up to you how you want to run it. I'd probably just do Tacticals, but if you're not buying anything new for a while doing the squads up as Veterans will keep things interesting.

If I were you, I'd get a Dreadclaw (an iconic SoH unit that can be used to transport either 5 Terminators or 10 Veterans/Tacticals) and maybe some Rhinos just so your force has some maneuverability, like the SoH typically do in the lore. You could run your marines either as Reavers, Veterans or ordinary Tactical marines depending on what you prefer and how you choose to model/paint them; the Sons of Horus are idiosyncratic in appearance like no other Legion and you can model them to your hearts content.

As you expand, you can choose to make your force fight a particular way. It could be an orbital assault themed force, a reaving themed annihilation force or an armoured column. Read the SoH specific lore and come up with an idea that suits you.

[Spinsanity]

Building BaC as SoHs? I'd say paint the termies and a squad in Justaerin/Reaver colors, the res (including dread) in regular SoH sea-green, and thus have a force that can easily be split in distinct forces for the boardgame... :)

[Malakai]

Thanks for the replies. I'm not quite sure which way I want to kit out my guys. I may just have to wait on the re-release of the Legion Astartes books. And yeah I was planning on finding some way to differentiate the models so I can play the board game (as I heard it's pretty good) but that is secondary to using them for 30K. 

 

How many power armored tacticals and/or vet tac troops are considered a solid core for..what is it, 2000pts?

[Marshal Loss]

20-30 of either. Some people prefer more but 2-3 scoring units is usually enough if they have transports to keep them safe from small arms fire. Many other units (like Legion Terminators and Justaerin) are scoring regardless of whether they are made troops by a character/rite of war, which gives you another scoring unit to play with in the event you don't have many Tacticals. Generally speaking I usually aim for 3-4 scoring units, of which 2-3 are troops.

 

Speaking specifically about Sons of Horus involving Veterans, there are a few handy choices you have access to when building your army;

 

- Horus makes Justaerin and Veterans troops in a SoH list. He can only be used in a game of 2,000 points or over though, so is probably not a short-term purchase for you.

- Maloghurst the Twisted makes Reavers and Veterans troops. He's an amazing character and is very highly rated by many players, including myself. You can combine him with a different rite of war to get unusual choices (Veterans/Reavers as troops in an Orbital Assault list for example)

- Any Master of the Legion (Praetor/special character with this rule) can take the 'Pride of the Legion' rite of war, which lets you take Terminators/Veterans as troops (and your two compulsory troops choices must be these units) with the downside that if all are killed you lose an additional victory point. If you run Pride of the Legion it's often best to take more troops than you normally would to avoid this potential VP loss.

- Taking a Delegatus Consul as your Warlord unlocks a special RoW where Veterans are made troops called 'Chosen Duty'. This is ideal for smaller games and as the Delegatus was just made useful by FW literally in the last 48 hours I'd highly recommend it if you're looking to play games at a small points level.

 

There are many, many options in 30k (and far more are coming this year), we're really laden with choices in terms of army composition. With the upcoming Justaerin changes & revamping of the Sons of Horus basic rules it promises to be a good year for XVI fans.

[Malakai]

Well a while back I bought a loose tactical sprue to kitbash with my Dark Angel 40K guys but I've decided I have too many and am donating it to my SoH force. So that will atleast be 40 guys right there.

 

Was looking through the FW range. SoH troop upgrades don't seem as 'sharp' or symmetrical as the newer legion sets. That's a bummer. That SoH Dread is awesome though. Justaerin look cool. Wonder why the decals were discontinued. A few items seem to be no longer available in the HH range.

 

By the way is this game called 30K, Age of Darkness or Horus Heresy?

 

edit, love that avatar. Did you paint it?

[Marshal Loss]

40 should definitely be enough. Once you start playing games you'll rapidly figure out how you want to play and you can make changes based on that.

 

Near the start of 2015 FW hired the daughter of Jes Goodwin (Holly) as a graphics designer, and she's been making some spectacular transfer sheets ever since. The old Sons of Horus one (and the old DG, WE and EC sheets) have been taken off the website while they are being remade. I'm sure it will be worth the wait, just look at the Word Bearers/Night Lords/Ultramarines/Iron Warriors transfer sheets on the FW site to see the quality of the new ones.

 

As for the SoH upgrades etc, I see where you're coming from. The designer who made the upgrade packs for the SoH (Alfonso Giraldes) has since left FW, and as the Sons of Horus were the first Legion to receive upgrades/a command set, many of the Legions that have followed since have been given more variety. I'd much prefer to buy a pack where I get more than 3 different helmet designs and 3 different chest designs - like the Alpha Legion packs for example - but I don't mind how it all looks and love the SoH model range overall. Reavers are gorgeous and the Justaerin are my favourite unit of all. They had a variety of designs in the concept/trial stage but for some reason many of the heads/torsos that were designed for the SoH were never released. It is a pity but I'm overall really happy with the range of models and can't wait to see what we get for units like the Luperci in the future.

 

Most people just call it 30k. I believe technically it's called the 'Age of Darkness expansion for Warhammer 40k,' but nobody ever calls it that unless they're talking about the books by FW. I think FW divided the HH into different periods, and the Age of Darkness is the first era in the war.

 

And yeah, my avatar is a marine from my Sons of Horus army. One of the first I did in my current scheme after spending ages trying to get a green I was happy with. Glad you like it!

[Malakai]

So I broke down and got a couple of purchases off ebay. Now My force stands at:

 

5 x Tactical sprues

2 x Cataphractii Terminators

2 x Praetor

2 x Centurion (BaC characters)

1 x BaC Contemptor

 

I want to use the extra bits to do a veteran, support and hvy weapon squad but still have at least two ten man tactical squads.

The only troops I want from FW are the Justaerin squad and a 5 man Reaver squad.

 

I was thinking of doing one of the Cataphractii squads in power claws while the other is armed with twin linked bolters and a hvy flamer. I would have loved to have had the autocannon but I'm not going to buy a weapons set for just one weapon that I will use.

 

The Contemptor I will probably learn to magnetize (finally) so I can pick up addition hvy weapons. Also I plan on getting the Sons of Horus Contemptor as it's the business.

 

The two BaC character packs are just so I can have a stock Praetor (as I like to collect) while I convert the other into something a little more SoH looking. The centurion I'll do the same with the first (maybe a head swap) and the second I'm doing a librarian.

 

My main problem is I have no playing experience and can't get the rulebooks until they are re-released. So apart from watching youtube videos I have absolutely nothing to go on ruleswise.

 

I know I have 5 ML, Hvy Bolters, Plasma guns, Melta guns, Flamers, and Combi-weapons to possibly allocate to other squads making them support or devastator (excuse me if I get the names wrong, still really really new). Toying with the idea of picking up 5 lascannons from FW and keeping some hvy weapons with the other squads.

 

So what do you think? How would you allocate weapons and models now with the new additions?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Until Book IVI drops, we won't have an idea on some of the changes to the game. Currently, as it stands, Justaerin have a whopping 40% tax on their unit cost. So ehike it becomes cheaper, you are also offsetting that initial outlay, as with only a single wound Justaerin are still expensive. Many people will still use them and say 'look how good they are' and whike they are correct, i struggle to find the points for them.

 

While 'piracy' isn't advised or allowed, it is known that there are sources out there who provide access to the rules. Legality is questionable on the possession of those, it becomes a none complaint if you purchase the rules as well.

 

This can help tie you over.

 

In regards to the rules to give you some ideas for how to proceed, there is a tactics forum with threads dedicated to SoH. Although some of the discussion may tend to run in some level of pernickitiness and theoretical high level play, it may give you a good idea on how to play the game.

 

In short, Sons of Horus get bonus attacks if they are in an assault with enemy models, outnumber them, and they aren't equipped with Initiative 1 weapons, and get reroll on a 1 bonuses for non vehicle units deep striking. Combined with access to Dreadclaw Assault Pods (super Drop Pods that can fly) on some of their better units as Dedicated Transports, freeing up your Fast Attack for units like Primaris Lightnings (a wide variety of weapon options, notable for option of up to 6 high strdngth, low AP tank hunting, armourbane missiles), or Xiphons (antiflyers equipped with Lascannons and multishot missile launchers with a high pdamage chance), Jetbikes, or Outriders (bikers which can load up on special weapons).

 

Drop pods are a very strong way to play 30k, and although you have a lot of expense (pt wise and model wise) to make use out of it with SoH, you can do rather well out of it. One of the best characters in the game is Abaddon. He is slightly overcosted considering he lacks eternal warrior, but his model is rather incredible, but he not only grants Deep Strike to your Terminators, but he can sweep with the unit, bringing a WS7 Mastercrafted Powerfist with 5 attacks on the charge, or up to 6 Power Sword attacks, and Fearless. However he is a Terminator who can Sweep, and recently FW have given models in Tartaros Terminator Armour (sadly, all yours are Cataphractii) the ability to sweep, so he can benefit.

 

You have the names correct, don't worry. In regards to 30k options, it is worth bearing in mind that melta isn't as good as it is in 40k at taking on vehicles; the Armoured Ceramite rule basically NOPES melta, and many people like to take it on Land Raiders, so that despite AP1, Melta needs to roll a 6 to affect those tanks.

 

Plasma is expensive, because the setting involves a lot of 3+ or better saves. Not onky that, but there is quite a few hangups from the games early days, where 20 Man Tactical Marines sat in cover with an Apothecary meant that 1/3rd of all shots were bouncing off, and at 325pts for a full squad of plasma marines, to have 1/3rd or more of shots bounce off having lost a ~35pt model to gets hot, it wasn't worth it. Nowadays, small 5-7 man squads are being used to deal damage in semi suicide attacks.

 

With Termimators having access to Combi Weapons, you can fit how you like. Meltas are strangely an option, particularly if equipped with fists. The 'Ceramite Circle' is a bit like the circle of life. Invariably, it started off with people porting collections over, so Meltas were big early on, and AC comparatiely cheap. As people developed ways to beat melta, either by Drop Pods or outflankers bypassing the tough front armour to put a S8 AP1 shot into AV11 or 10 AC or no, or taking Graviton in sufficient numbers, melta began to be dropped. Melta is steadily coming back as a result of this, so we may yet see it all again.

 

Anti Armour is done in HH by either CC- Chainfists, Meltabombs, Dreadnoughts, etc, or by things like podded meltas or dreads (can take Grav or Melta), rapier carriers (specifically Quad Mortars for medium, Grav/Laser for heavy) Deredeos (S8, Rerolls to Penetrate), or tank based (Laser Cannons of several variants, barrage ordnance like medusa). Lascannoms, while available in numbers, are squishy. That said, there is something about just firing a load of lascannons that just screams right to me. They need help with fortifications IMHO. These can not only provode cover but take ammo dumps to make them more accurate.

 

Heavy Bolters are sometimes useful if there are militia players who swamp the board with models. 5 of them can get around 2-3 turns of firing in, which if in a fortification with rerolls can put out 45 shots, with around about 36+ hitting, and 30 wounding.

 

Missile Launchers can be okay, but often a distinct lack of AV12 (and what is there is immobile and non scoring or dealt with by the heaviest AT guns after they have dealt with the enemy threats) means that ML aren't well liked. If the Flakk missiles are free, they would have a niche as ultraflexible anti air cover, but few people want to pay 25-50pts extra for a unit that can be avoided (Interceptor is an 18" bubble for some units) when their current weapon sets are less than useful for the task. Plus, as someome who once played with 6 Quad Mortars, it becomes a PitA sometimes to work pit scatter for 10 missiles every turn, amd your opponent sometimes focus fires on them so he doesn't have to sit through that.

 

Flamers are a bit hit and miss for me. I like them on Veterans, who can get Sniper and fired out of a top hatch while a unit of 5 specialistd is usually wasted because not all can get in range.

 

However on a terminator unit, 5 combi flamers can be rather effective.

 

I hope that has given you some food for thought, and you can ask any questions you like. There isn't one tried and true cookie cutter build, mainly because people aren't having to keep up with Eldar Wraithknight spam or Necron Decurions. This gives you the ability to be a bit more free with your army selection. Only things I really recommend to stay away from is Recon Squads, Whirlwinds, and Deathstorm Drop Pods, and even then, the Whirlwind can count as a Scorpius.

 

Everything else has its place and can be effectivrly used. That said, i am expecting some changes in a month or two to come through, which may change some advice, making Justaerin much cheaper and cost efficient, or certain Rites of War (basically a modified FoC/Detachment if you have played 40k recently) to make things pike Recon Squads better.