Crazy Jay Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Alright, the simple question is this, What happens if I cast Mind Wipe on a Walker (or superheavy walker)? A) The Walker has their WS and BS lowered to 1 until they are required to take a leadership test, then they automatically go back to normal B) The Walker has their WS and BS lowered to 1 until they are required to take a leadership test, then due to not having a leadership score, automatically fail it and are at WS/BS 1 for the remainder of the game? C) The Walker can not be targeted by Mind Wipe because they do not have a leadership score D) Something else entirely that I can't even comprehend. some relevent topics to this discussion. Psychic pilot states the vehicle behaves as having LD10 for all things that deal with psychic powers, however in this example I'm targetting a walker without the pyschic pilot rule. Is this enough precedence to say that ALL vehicles behave as leadership 10 when dealing with psychic powers? Another question is this passage from the BRB "It is assumed, in all cases, that the crew’s faith in their vehicle, and its considerable armour plating, is absolute. Therefore, vehicles never take Morale checks or Leadership tests." How does that work in regard to psychic pilot vehicles that perils. Even though that rule is a NEVER statement, does the perils and the psychic pilot trump it? I know I'm kind of going off on a tangent at this point but I'm trying to get some stuff worked out in my head before a big game, Thank you in advance for any and all help on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Psychic Pilot is no precedent for vehicles that don't have it. Mind Wipe reduces WS / BS until end of next turn. This rule can be implemented. As Vehicles don't take Ld tests therefore they can neither pass or fail one. So that part if the Mind Wipe can't be implemented. Note that Malediction powers only last until the start of the psykers next psychic phase anyway (BRB p27). This part of Mind Wipe can be implemented too. So overall we (that is our little player group) play this to mean that reduced WS / BS only lasts until the end of the next turn (DA Codex trumping rulebook here). However, it could also expire at next psychic phase which would be less harmful. Discuss with opponent But whichever the route you pick, the effects would not remain for the rest of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleqvin Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Isn't your psyker's next psychic phase meaning your next psychic phase which would mean on your player turn, as the psychic phase on your opponents turn isn't your psychic phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 mind wipe clearly says that a targeted enemy unit can be afflicted by the malediction. a vehicle unless joined by a monster or an infantry/ beast/ cavalry cant be counted as a unit. it is a model or vehicle or squadron. therefore an imperial knight cant be afflicted by wipe. thats how i view it anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Everything as per the BRB is a unit Including vehicles Mind wipe affects everything and as vehicles don't have a leadership it just goes away automatically. It did come up when the Codex came out but there's nothing vague about the wording and we couldn't find a reason why it wouldn't apply after spending some time reading through it as my first thoughts were can you mind wipe an imperial Knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Everything as per the BRB is a unit Including vehicles Mind wipe affects everything and as vehicles don't have a leadership it just goes away automatically. It did come up when the Codex came out but there's nothing vague about the wording and we couldn't find a reason why it wouldn't apply after spending some time reading through it as my first thoughts were can you mind wipe an imperial Knight i think it would be less confusing if they were more consistent with that there verbage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 It can be slightly confusing as the word Unit is used in different contexts in different areas It didn't help non when Vehicle type wasn't on the stat page for Imperial Knights in 6th but that has been corrected in 7th so you don't need to hunt round for it. Anyways everything should have a unit Type somewhere in its stat line in 7th for the Imperial Knight its on his profile page (where it should be An imperial Knight has a Unit Type (Vehicle (Super Heavy Walker)) Other Vehicle examples are Land speeder - Vehicle (Fast Skimmer) Rhino - Vehicle (Tank, Transport) The argument for not doing it is based around Vehicle's not having a Leadership but the Power is written in 2 separate and distinct Phases Anyways if you can make an entire Baronial court Invisible then I don't see why you can't make them snap fire with a Psychic power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormxlr Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Play as if they are leadership 10 that's how I do it. Play as if they are leadership 10 that's how I do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I may be quoting a past edition, but I seem to remember that vehicles count as Ld10 for the purpose of Leadership checks. Vehicles do not need to take Morale checks (they count as Fearless), but they are still subject to Leadership tests. Correct me if I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Vehicles as per page 78 of rulebook on Vehicle Leadership and morale, never take morale checks or Ld tests. The confidence of the crew on the armour plate is absolute. The only exception is that a vehicle with psychic pilot (page 170) uses a Ld10 for his psyker tests. So what does this mean? Mind wipe can in fact reduce BS and WS of a vehicle or vehicle unit. MInd wipe will never be permanent because since vehicles have no LD you either assume they pass the Ld test automatically or the Ld test can't occur at all because they have no ld to test against. This is independent to any Psyker pilot rules , that have only bearing to the vehicles own psyker phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I see. Thanks for clearing it up. Been a while since I touched it rule book :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGumbo Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 To answer the part of your question in parentheses: I'm pretty sure that super-heavies are immune to all psychic powers other than witchfire powers with a weapon profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 To answer the part of your question in parentheses: I'm pretty sure that super-heavies are immune to all psychic powers other than witchfire powers with a weapon profile. Not true anymore. Only the Imperial titans (Warhound on up) Have had that rule readded since it vanished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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