Seeker Squads?

[Emperor's Furor]

I'm thinking of making a seeker squad or two out of 10 of the B@C set and was wondering whether to go with one full squad with 10 combis or split it into two 5 man squads one with combi meltas and one with combi plasmas, what do you think? The army I'm going with is Sons of Horus so I can give them banestrike rounds to.

[betrayer41]

I'm thinking of making a seeker squad or two out of 10 of the B@C set and was wondering whether to go with one full squad with 10 combis or split it into two 5 man squads one with combi meltas and one with combi plasmas, what do you think? The army I'm going with is Sons of Horus so I can give them banestrike rounds to.

Can a squad of 10 mix and match combi weapons?

[Terminus]

They can all have different combi-weapons.

 

With most 30K units, you get more for your points the larger the unit gets. You pay 35 points per guy for the first 5 guys. The additional guys are only 15. At the same time, since there are no combat squads, you don't have to go for the full 10 if you don't have the points to spare. 300 pts buys you 8 guys with combi-weapons of choice.  For vanilla Seekers, the best weapon IMO is the combi-plasma. You really want to use them against the same unit you've marked for death, so you're hitting (BS5 re-roll 1s) and wounding (S7 re-roll 1s) with pretty much all of your attacks (that's 15.2 average plasma wounds from a squad of 8). Then they revert to being a more useful tactical squad, since they are scoring and can go after various targets with their special rounds. Banestrike rounds are categorically a downgrade.

 

You can give them combi-meltas, but it's not the optimal choice. You likely won't have as much use for it as another plasma against your marked target, but you can save them as a just-in-case to give the unit a bit more bite after it's used up the plasma guns.  I feel Veterans are the better choice for melta-totting, since with meltabombs and choice of tank hunter/sniper tactic they can go after any AV target or monstrous creature.  As a Sons of Horus player, you also get the options of Reavers, who can take a melta per 5 guys and all can upgrade to combi-meltas.  304 points buys you a squad of 10 reavers with 6 combi-meltas with banestrike (or 3 combis and 2 regular meltas), chainaxes, powerfist and artificer armor on the Chieftain.  Blow up a vehicle, then proceed to be a fairly lethal melee unit.

[Emperor's Furor]

Hmm ok thanks. I guess I could go for a unit of veterans instead then. I just realised a lot of the meltas and combi meltas I have, have no hands for them and I don't really want to cut the hands away from the bolters on the B@C sprues, so I may keep it simple and just go for a veteran squad. In regards to reavers I want them to stand out and whilst I can get the upgrade kits for around £40 from forgeworld it's a lot to spend on just upgrades so if I do expand the force I'll just get the actual reaver squads that come with the axes and such.

[Hesh Kadesh]

While you get more for your points, it is also worth being aware of what role you need your unit to fulfil. Points taxes are about, and just because something is cheaper doesn't mean it's more effective.

 

If you have a meal for 2 at £5, but the meal for 1 at £3, but only 3 people in the family, it's cheaper to get one of each for £8 then two meals for two for £10. The same thing applies to 30K. You can have too much of a good thing (or bad, if they're tactical marines).

[FoxTrot.]

I recently have been using a 10 man seeker squad in 2500 point games. They can hit a variety of targets and cause a lot of damage. The way I usually decide wether a unit was effective in a game is if they make their points back, and do so consistently to the point where they are a reliable unit to take in games. Unfortunately I found seekers to be in my opinion a loose cannon, great in some games but more often than not will kill a couple infantry and then loose half it's squad and become useless for the rest of the game.

[Terminus]

It's worth remembering that a surviving unit of Seekers is never "useless" since they are scoring.

[Charlo]

It's worth remembering that a surviving unit of Seekers is never "useless" since they are scoring.

 

Also rapid firing S3 small blasts into anything is so much fun it's ridiculous.

 

Especially if you get the world burner warlord trait.

 

Or rending on them.

 

Or both.

[Terminus]

For reals. Seekers are excellent. The only section that sucks for Legions is the troop section.  Elites (Termies, Contemptors, Rapiers, Apothecaries), Fast Attack (Javelins, Graviton Speeders, attack bikes, dreadclaw), and heavy support (lol pretty much all the stuff with an armor value) are all chock full of good options.

[Lord Blackwood]

I guess ill have to build a unit of seekers now since i dont really use my fast attack slot at all 

[Galron]

20 man tacticals do not suck, especially if playing vs 40k armies regularly. Back them up with a hidden powerfist and art armor and a medic with an auspix and they rock. I am still trying to find a use for seekers over vets. In the games I have played them in they have under performed vs vets at their assigned jobs. Obviously Murphy strikes now and then which is why I am happy to try a "bad" unit multiple times to see if it keeps happening. Maybe they would be better with a medic with augury as well to stop deepstrikers.

[shandwen]

20 man tacticals do not suck, especially if playing vs 40k armies regularly. Back them up with a hidden powerfist and art armor and a medic with an auspix and they rock. I am still trying to find a use for seekers over vets. In the games I have played them in they have under performed vs vets at their assigned jobs. Obviously Murphy strikes now and then which is why I am happy to try a "bad" unit multiple times to see if it keeps happening. Maybe they would be better with a medic with augury as well to stop deepstrikers.

For the points spent to make them good: they are bad.

[Caillum]

Back onto the topic of Seekers...

 

Combi-plasmas are a great option. With BS5 & Preferred Enemy against their 'Marked for Death' target, a full squad will do around 19 AP2 wounds at Rapid Fire range. That will vape a whole squad of Terminators or a Tactical Blob! This is all in a perfect world, but performance should be close to that in most games.

 

Even after the Alpha Strike, they are a toolbox: Implacable Advance & Special Issue Ammo means they are basically 'better' Tacticals (though that isn't much to write home about). Add in a Legion Trait though and they will do well enough.

[Charlo]

I think the real problem is that they just always attract a huge amount of retaliation, and rightly so - if you Vape a squad of expensive enemies they become target number one, especially only being a marine stat line on the defensive.

 

One option would be adding in a character to tank for them after the drop. So a centurion with Cataphractii with cyber familiar or the like. Some legions could use storm Shields perhaps. But then you are sinking more points into a one turn wonder unit. Autek Mor comes to mind, giving them preferred enemy after the initial unit is dead and having T5.

 

I think arguments could be made for keeping the squad down to five men, and you'll still end up with 9/10 wounds, which in average is still 5 dead Cataphractii terminators. Then they're less of a problem when the counter attack comes. Use them in a supporting role as opposed to a leading blow up roll.

 

Also another small note - Iron Warriors, with Perturabo and the RoW they can Dresdclaw drop in from Turn one, wait inside, then turn two disembark, unleash hell and even charge what remains.

[Caillum]

Yeah, but once they've Alpha Striked(Struck) they aren't super scary, so will become a less appealing target.

 

Though you don't need Perturabo to Drop Pod Assault on the 1st turn! :)

[Charlo]

Ignore my derp. Hahah!

[Terminus]

20 man tacticals do not suck, especially if playing vs 40k armies regularly. Back them up with a hidden powerfist and art armor and a medic with an auspix and they rock. I am still trying to find a use for seekers over vets. In the games I have played them in they have under performed vs vets at their assigned jobs. Obviously Murphy strikes now and then which is why I am happy to try a "bad" unit multiple times to see if it keeps happening. Maybe they would be better with a medic with augury as well to stop deepstrikers.

20 man tacticals are terrible, especially if you're playing against 40K. Seriously, a big slow blob of MEQs that can't take full advantage of cover? Dead meat.

[Slips]

Pray tell, how does this conversation about tactical marines pertain to Seeker Squads? Especially when we start talking about their viability in 40k and start comparing them to Tac Vets instead of Seekers.

 

Pretty sure we have separate topics for those discussions.

[Terminus]

After their big turn, Seekers essentially become a standard tactical squad with fancy situational bullets and no vexilla or meltabomb on the Sergeant.

[Slips]

With the Added Benefit of Special Issue Ammunition; minor buffs at most but still something that might help once in a while...or cause some hilarity when you rapid Fire Tempest Bolts.

 

As a quick clarification, their Squad Sarge can take Melta Bombs.

[Nusquam]

Though the Seeker sarge can't take a combi weapon, he can exchange his bolter for a plasma pistol and dual wield it and a bolt pistol. Just found that out recently. Pretty awesome in my book. I had almost relegated the sarge to a 2+ tank.

[Charlo]

Though the Seeker sarge can't take a combi weapon, he can exchange his bolter for a plasma pistol and dual wield it and a bolt pistol. Just found that out recently. Pretty awesome in my book. I had almost relegated the sarge to a 2+ tank.

That is expensive but awesome.

[Caustic63]

Seeker squads are a very niche unit in my opinion. They aren't the most effective source of Plasma in a legion army, and function best when arriving out of a Drop Pod or Infiltrating so they can get in the best position to use their alpha strike. Unlike 40K Sternguard their Special Ammo types are only marginally useful (Hellfire Rounds are sorely missed) and their Scorpios round is difficult to use if you want any sort of mobility. Realistically, I'd only use them in certain specific legions like Sons of Horus (Dreadclaws and Banestrike Rounds), Alpha Legion (Infiltrate and Banestrike Rounds), or Raven Guard (Infiltrate and Drop Pods). It seems odd though that all three of these legions have their own unique versions of Seeker Squad-like units that seem to fill their role better.

[Nusquam]

Mor Deythan can't take a pod in a Decapitation Strike list while Seekers can. They have that going.

[Brofist]

I'd add EC to the list. IMO their ROW compliments a glass hammer pretty well.