Legion Veterans, how would you use them?

[The Pounder]

OK, like the title says, how best to use them.

I am building 2 squads of 10 for my Ultramarines.

Now I'm not sure what the best build is.

I have plasmaguns, flamers, meltaguns, heavy bolter or missile launchers.

Also is it worth giving them power weapons?

What skills would compliment them best? 

[Hesh Kadesh]

Depends.

 

What do you need them to do? For most armies, even the assault specialist ones, there are few units as capable as them; Furious Charge and Power Weapons and a well timed charge can break a line, and being equippesd with meltabombs means that they can defeat the usual hangup of Dreadnoughts. That said, spending all those points on a unit means that they are competing with things like Terminators which are more resilient, can now Sweep, and bring Power/Chainfists to the game.

 

Sniper Shooting on s5 or better is broken vs Vehicles, so Sniper with Meltaguns is a bit naff, unless you are able to houserule the change to make it its own Strength orf S4 vs vehocles, whichever is better.

 

As Ultramarines, however, despite how good Vets are, I find that Invicatrus Suzerains are a better use of assault unit thanks to being effectively TEQ in CC without bulky and having at-Initiative AP2.

 

As a shooty unit, something may well be said about Sniper Bolters getting rerolls to wound on a 1, while the idea of Sniper Heavy Flamers is hilarious. Putting them in a rhino gives you a secpnd Cpmbi Bolter to generate rerolls for yourguys while rolling around like Chamillionaire drive by heavy flaming out of the top hatch.

[Charlo]

Pretty much what Hesh said. Theyre incredibly versatile and can plug a hole in any list, but if you get crazy with them they start to become expensive or a Legion will have a specific unit that can perform the roll better.

 

That said, people swear by sniper dudes with heavy bolters to just hunker down on an objective and provide a threat to anything with rending.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I recently acquired some World Eater Veteran helms (the precusor-Khorney ones!) and have many spare Legionary kits.

 

I'd be keen to see how somebody would set them up? I'd put them as TEQ or AV because I will always have a tide of despoilers to axe up infantry or MEQ.

 

I was thinking Dreadclaw with 9 Veterans & Consul or Apoc tooled with melta-bombs, power weapons or meltas? Mayhap some Caedere weapons? My main gripe has been mentioned, I deliver my main list with the intention of being able to engage all threats;  so a specifically tooled up Veteran squad doesn't seem to fit. I have Despoilers for mass-culling, bikes for anti-TEQ/AV, Spartans for armoured presence and Deredeo for AA. Characters/LoW to taste.

 

Or in a smaller list, a Dreadclaw with Vets & Khârn seems like a well rounded decapitation force.

 

If anything I'd drop the bikes for a Dreadclaw Veteran squad, in which case they would be replacing multi-meltas - role to fit accordingly.

Failing finding a viable spot in my army, I can always go for rule of cool and make them display models.

[Gorgoff]

I'm going for 8 dudes with 3 power weapons and fist sarge.

Two Power Axes and one Power Sword . They go in a Land Raider.

[Charlo]

I'm going for 8 dudes with 3 power weapons and fist sarge.

Two Power Axes and one Power Sword . They go in a Land Raider.

Add in Rage from World eaters and enjoy your 30k Death Company sans FNP (but you gave them an apothecary, right?).

[Gorgoff]

When it's done I will. Oh yeah, let the limps fly!

[01RTB01]

Depends.

What do you need them to do? For most armies, even the assault specialist ones, there are few units as capable as them; Furious Charge and Power Weapons and a well timed charge can break a line, and being equippesd with meltabombs means that they can defeat the usual hangup of Dreadnoughts. That said, spending all those points on a unit means that they are competing with things like Terminators which are more resilient, can now Sweep, and bring Power/Chainfists to the game.

Sniper Shooting on s5 or better is broken vs Vehicles, so Sniper with Meltaguns is a bit naff, unless you are able to houserule the change to make it its own Strength orf S4 vs vehocles, whichever is better.

As Ultramarines, however, despite how good Vets are, I find that Invicatrus Suzerains are a better use of assault unit thanks to being effectively TEQ in CC without bulky and having at-Initiative AP2.

As a shooty unit, something may well be said about Sniper Bolters getting rerolls to wound on a 1, while the idea of Sniper Heavy Flamers is hilarious. Putting them in a rhino gives you a secpnd Cpmbi Bolter to generate rerolls for yourguys while rolling around like Chamillionaire drive by heavy flaming out of the top hatch.

Why do they get rerolls of 1 to wound?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Because Ultramarines.

[Terminus]

Sniper Shooting on s5 or better is broken vs Vehicles, so Sniper with Meltaguns is a bit naff, unless you are able to houserule the change to make it its own Strength orf S4 vs vehocles, whichever is better.

 

As Ultramarines, however, despite how good Vets are, I find that Invicatrus Suzerains are a better use of assault unit thanks to being effectively TEQ in CC without bulky and having at-Initiative AP2.

The FAQ addresses sniper melta guns vs. living targets, so I don't think you would find much argument in applying the same logic to vehicles.

 

I see two solid builds for Veterans. 2 meltas, combi-melta/powerfist/artificer sgt, meltabombs, tank hunters. Put them in a pod.

 

Or you can just use them as cheap scoring units with nothing but a mobile heavy bolter and sniper tactics.

 

Ultras also have the Locutarus, which are also awesome in assault.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Very true, although the rule isn't comprehensive and playing devils advocate, if it was intended to change, why didnt they change it?

 

Locutarus are incredible, although their special rule is a bit naff.

[depthcharge12]

I think that if you're facing a Typhon, stick a vet squad with Melta bombs and two Melta guns in a Dreadclaw for a T2 assault to nope near a quarter of your enemy's list at 2000 points. The good thing, if you have spare points, is to load them up with two to three power weapons to bully backfield squads.

 

But if your enemy has a leviathan, good luck trying to deal with that if its not on the other side of the board, because it'll just laugh at Melta bomb vets.

[The Pounder]

Thanks for the speedy replies!

A bit more information about my force and what I'm lucky to come up against.
So far in my force I have some Suzerain (with the big man!) and Locutarus already
for melee plus 4 Tactical squads in Rhinos.
My main opponents are Imperial Fists (lots of infantry and artillery) and White Scars
(lots of bikes and vehicles) so pretty much as you'd expect them.
I have the bitz to make 20 Vets.
I love the look of the old school missile launchers so one squad will definitely include them.
It's the second unit I'm still undecided on. I'd like to play them aggressively but not quite
sure how best to field them.

[Terminus]

4 tactical squads is incredible overkill, you will never need more than 2 even as Ultramarines. Using them as veterans, support squads, or seekers would be a much better route.

 

Very true, although the rule isn't comprehensive and playing devils advocate, if it was intended to change, why didnt they change it?

Locutarus are incredible, although their special rule is a bit naff.

Because FW are extremely obtuse, and only answered the specific question answered? The question just asked about Strength vs. Toughnes, so that's what they addressed. :P

 

Opening Salvo is a neat rule, especially in conjunction with a re-rollable deep strike scatter, but in a way it is a trap within a trap. The first trap is the hand flamers. Everyone wants to live the dream of dousing something with 6 flamer templates, but I see three problems with this course.

 

1. The short effective range of flamers makes landings far more risky.

2. Stuff that dies to hand-flamers dies to your obligatory bolters, do you really need your elite anti-MEQ grinder unit landing near chaff? They only have 2 attacks per dude.

3. They are 10 points each! This is the one time where I actually consider the plasma pistol as an option, because they are effectively a combi-plasma as well.

 

With Dynat in particular, you can have them deep-striking accurately behind enemy lines, and unleashing 6 S7 Ap1 tank-hunting shots (Ultras at Ap2 + legion re-rolls). Then they can proceed to murder anything in power armor, or continue harassing vehicles with the pistols and meltabomb/powerfist on leader.

 

Of course, then comes the second trap. If your opponent has phosphex or any sort of AP2 template capability, all that goes completely out the window, because putting all those juicy T4 Sv2+ bodies in a nice clumped formation is asking for them to be annihilated in one turn. So a bit naff is a fair assessment.

[2gud2bbad]

I recently acquired some World Eater Veteran helms (the precusor-Khorney ones!) and have many spare Legionary kits.

 

I'd be keen to see how somebody would set them up? I'd put them as TEQ or AV because I will always have a tide of despoilers to axe up infantry or MEQ.

 

I was thinking Dreadclaw with 9 Veterans & Consul or Apoc tooled with melta-bombs, power weapons or meltas? Mayhap some Caedere weapons? My main gripe has been mentioned, I deliver my main list with the intention of being able to engage all threats;  so a specifically tooled up Veteran squad doesn't seem to fit. I have Despoilers for mass-culling, bikes for anti-TEQ/AV, Spartans for armoured presence and Deredeo for AA. Characters/LoW to taste.

 

Or in a smaller list, a Dreadclaw with Vets & Khârn seems like a well rounded decapitation force.

 

If anything I'd drop the bikes for a Dreadclaw Veteran squad, in which case they would be replacing multi-meltas - role to fit accordingly.

Failing finding a viable spot in my army, I can always go for rule of cool and make them display models.

 

 

Hi,

 

I'm planning to use my WE Vets in a similar fashion. 10 Marines w/ AA, Powerfist, 4 Power weapons and meltabombs in an anvils dread claw. 290 pts. you could include an apoc instead of 1 Vet, bringing your pts up 320. I think that's the way to go for WE Veterans, the anvillus being the cheapest assault delivery system and a big movement radius. With Rage, Hatred and FC and maybe FNP they'll kill about anything in the game. They won't win untouched, but they trade super well for their points with elite units. 

[Charlo]

Remove another veteran and add in Khârn and that's your monster star, except terminators.

[Amon777]

I say don't go crazy with upgrades. Keep them stock with sniper in a rhino and use them like a real tactical squad. They are good, but not great, against everything so use a them to plug holes in your list.

[Sanct]

3. They are 10 points each! This is the one time where I actually consider the plasma pistol as an option, because they are effectively a combi-plasma as well.

 

 

So much this.

At half this price I could get on board handflamers as an additional option and additional weapon but as replacement over the bolt pistol and as the special weapon option? No thank you.

[depthcharge12]

Honestly the best I've seen so far in batreps is them used with Melta bombs and possibly two Melta guns out of a pod or Dreadclaw. They are useful to troll backfield tanks like Sicarans or dreadnoughts.

 

Inevitably you'll lose some vets to a dread in cc, but all those cheap Melta bombs will wreck them and take out a large chunk of points from your enemy's list.

[TemujinZero]

I keep my squads stock except for melta bombs and take sniper. Tank hunters seems unnecessary on 10 melta bombs. Sniper makes them good against almost anything. Stick them in a rhino and you have a cost efficient unit that can fill multiple roles.

[ThatOneMarshal]

So something I've been thinking about is using a 10 man squad of veterans in a dreadclaw to support Sevater. I was planning on using furious charge, however I was wondering how many power weapons should I use in the squad? I was thinking maybe 3 on the grunts and either a chainglaive or a powerfist on the seargent. Other than that I was going to add melta bombs, though I have no clue what to use for special weapons, maybe a meltagun in case of contemptor or rhino?

[Hesh Kadesh]

It would have to be a 9 Man squad, to fit Sev in the Pod. Power Weapons; I like Swords, mainly because I5, and you shouldn't really be going headlong into 2+ saves. Maybe a Fist on the Sergeant to generate ID where appropriate. If you can generate the outnumber, then you're wounding on 3's. Wound on 2's if you want to go the whole hog and throw in a Forge Lord with Rad nades.

 

That sounds like a good ratio, the 1:3 though. I like it as it is powerful while still giving ablative bodies.

 

You'll only get a single special weapon, in that squad, so it is best to just take Meltabombs and try not to get near contemptors, although it cannot be helped always. A meltagun is the most useful weapon IMHO as you can attempt to use that to snipe 2+ save tankers before a charge.

[Terminus]

I keep my squads stock except for melta bombs and take sniper. Tank hunters seems unnecessary on 10 melta bombs. Sniper makes them good against almost anything. Stick them in a rhino and you have a cost efficient unit that can fill multiple roles.

The squad with meltabombs and a pair of heavy bolters in a rhino is a great holder of back-lines and late game scorer. They can threaten a large variety of targets, and don't use up too many points.

 

If I'm deep striking them, however, I'm more tempted to go for tank hunter (unless we're talking Cybernetica, then it's all snipers :P).  A pair of meltaguns and a combi-melta on the Sergeant can go a long way. You won't be shooting Typhons or spartans, but there are plenty of Sicarans, Deredeo Dreadnoughts, tank destroyers, predators, etc. that have a very good chance of going boom from such a volley.

 

Of course, as with all things, the Alpha does it better with +3 on damage roll in enemy deployment. :D