First heresy era list - 3k Raven guard

[Guardian of the Rage]

Hi all,

 

My first heresy era list so please go easy.

 

I am a 40k Raven guard player and I just can't justify not working on them here too.

 

I have a couple of lists using the right of war and Maun; which both seem like fluffy and powerful no brainers. Both have essentially the same plan so hopefully they make sense.

- infiltrate maun and the veteran squad

- pods arrive turn 1 to support

- all other reserves in flyers or deepstrike to benefit from maun' strait

- only exception is the tac in rhino in list 1, will arrive and hold objectives

 

List 1

 

Alvarex Maun 1 Cameleoline

Chaplain Consul 1 Jump pack, Psword, combat shield, AA

 

Mor Deythan Squad 10 Combi plasma x7, plasmagun x3

Darkwing 1 MM

Contemptor dreadnought 1 1 Dreadnought CCW, Chainfist, graviton x2 in Dread Pod

Veteran Tactical Squad 10 Vexilla, melta bombs, heavy flamer x2, psword x2, AA, Psword

Apothecary 1 Augury Scanner

 

Tactical Squad 10 1 (Bolters) vexilla in Rhino

Tactical Squad 15 Vexilla, AA, PF

Tactical Support Squad 6 1 Meltagun x6 in Pod

 

Dark Fury Squad 7

Primaris Lightning 1 3x kraken turbo penetrators, ground attack

Jetbike Squadron 6 Plasma cannon x2

 

Death storm Pod 1 Drop pod assault

 

 

 

List 2

 

Alvarex Maun 1 Cameleoline

Primus Medicae 1 Psword, Cameleoline

 

Mor Deythan Squad 6 Combi-flamer x6

Darkwing 1 MM

Veteran Tactical Squad 10 Vexilla, melta bombs, heavy flamer x2, psword x2, AA, Psword

Apothecary 1 Augury Scanner

 

Tactical Squad 10 1 (Bolters) vexilla in Pod

Tactical Squad 15 Vexilla, AA, PF

Tactical Support Squad 6 1 Meltagun x6 in Pod

Tactical Support Squad 8 1 Plasmagun x8 in Pod

 

Primaris Lightning 1 3x kraken turbo penetrators, ground attack

Seeker Team 10 1 Combi plasma x10 in Pod

Dark Fury Squad 8

 

Death storm Pod 1 Drop pod assault

[Nusquam]

First thing you'll learn is that anything with an AV worth killing, that isn't a knight(so if you plan on fighting them it's fine), has armoured ceramite. Anything else is a rhino chassis so a meltagun pod won't get far or will be overkill. Plasmas are the way to go, two shots at one less strength will do better than one shot at one more strength.

As for the lighting, the points you spent on the third kraken set is better off going towards tank hunters. It's only going to get one optimal attack run and can only fire 4 missiles max at anytime. So that one attack run with BS5 and tankhunters will ensure the target is slagged.

As for list one specifically:

 

Rending, twinlinked, combi flamers on the Mor Deythan will do more than plasma against infantry. If you want to get into assault too, to hide from retaliatory fire, change the three plasmas to meltas to stay potent but be able to assault.

What tactic do the vets have? Without a transport their flamers won't do much. If you give them sniper and heavy bolters with the webs however, they can be effective immediately.

 

List two is the stronger of the two. The lightning can take out the big centerpiece threat like a typhon, spartan, fellblade, etc. While plasmas and such can hit rear armor of lesser tanks.

 

Be aware that 30k drop pods now kick their passengers out too.

[pompeyladbfp]

some great advice there... im tempted by two mor daeython squads (combi flamered), maybe  even deploying in mauns pod

[Guardian of the Rage]

@nusquam

 

Thanks for commenting, I was hoping that you would as I have seen you advice on these threads and read much of your thoughts in the RG tactica.

 

On the veterans - I am not sure precisely. It felt like I needed another infiltrating unit and a way to get massed melta bombs for super heavies. In addition, I wanted a unit that could act as speed bump and/or engage enemy heavy support units in assault to prevent several turns of shooting. They would have the Primus Medicae for stealth and FNP.

 

In the total layout of the list is feels like a unit with these qualities is needed but not necessarily in that format. What do you recommend?

 

List 2 felt better and was an extension of thoughts after list 1 so thanks for that.

 

Lightning - find a way to get the tank hunter upgrade; understood.

 

On the podding melta tactical support squad - I understand your point, I see that others have mentioned that too. Is there anything that can fulfil the same/similar intended function in your experience?

 

In summary, assuming that list 2 is to be developed and that the Lightning is changed, the following look open for redrafting

- the veteran tactical squad

- the Primus Medicae

- the tactical support squad with melta

- that's a total of ~650 points

 

With those points I am looking to achieve

- 1 infiltrated squad

- 1 drop podding squad with anti armour

- 1 melta bomb unit

- 1 speed bump and CC for heavies unit

 

Any advice you can give would be great.

 

Cheers,

[Nusquam]

The best thing that can pod down and threaten any vehicle are dreads(of any kind) with a chain fist, ccw, and two grav guns; and it costs 10 points fewer(in the case of a normal dread) than a support squad in a pod with 6 meltas. And dread pods still dont kick the dreads out, only the basic troop pod does. So they have an ablative AV12 bunker with shrouded the turn they come down. At 3k points things like typhons, with armoured ceramite,  or spartans with primarchs and friends come out to play. Anything on foot too close is getting erased. Not that everyone takes a typhon, but it is pretty good for its cost.

 

Plasma support squads in pods are always good. They offer wide coverage. Think of them as short range autocannons with AP2. They can fry troops, termis, and light vehicles/rear AV.

 

The thing with meltabombs on troops is that you want to be able to charge with them; so they need to be maneuverable to catch the things that will try to stay away from them. So by extension in an assault transport or be able to move 12". MBs on destroyers is a waste since they are anti infantry, assault marines are exuberantly expensive for some reason, tactical vets aren't bad (especially with tank hunters as their tactic and the flat cost of MBs) but will need a darkwing since you cant charge after infiltrating and if theyre on foot the tanks will just drive away. Recon marines in a storm eagle are an effective option and less expensive than vets in a darkwing. Outriders and Sky Hunters actually aren't bad. They can jink all the way up the board, or just tank on their 2+ in the case of sky hunters, and rush into melee. At 3k points they're the only things with built in survivability that can cover distance quickly and/or deepstrike/outflank. But beware typhons.

 

So for the points you want to hit:

• Changing the melta support squad to another plasma would be my suggestion. Good coverage and can be used as AT.
• Infiltrate the vet squad, give them sniper and heavy bolters. They can hold down a far flung objective or attack an under defended one in your enemies deployment zone. There they can lay down fire with the bolters. Alternatively you can drop the melta support squad and keep the MBs and give them a Darkwing and Tank Hunter. Thanks to Maun they come down turn 2 in perfect position, and turn three assault something of your choice. But you already have a Lightning which will probably have killed, or opened up for a death blow, something worth assaulting with MBs.
• As for a 'speedbump' you already have a 15man tac squad. If you attach the medicae to this squad they'll have FnP and Stealth. Unless you're facing a LR spearhead of something like WE by turn three you should have been able to hamstring their big unit in a spartan(should they have one) or taken out their superheavy with the lightning and darkwing. Then you can just shoot whatever is left.

[Guardian of the Rage]

@Nusquam

 

Thanks very much for continuing to take the time to help me with this, it is very much appreciated. I didn't respond because I wanted to go away, reflect upon what you had said and integrate it with my thinking.

 

Now with version 8 of the list written I have a another three which are developments in the previous list 2. I will post both and label as 3, 4 and 5. Essentially, they are different ways of using the veterans and the list fitting around number of reserves for second game turn. List 5 has more powerful shooting output on the infiltrators.

 

Many thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

List 3

- sniper veterans with apothecary not Primus

- still has 5 pods

- no melta tac support

- contempor with grav and Chainfist to threaten

- tank hunter on the Lightning

- otherwise unchanged

 

HQ Alvarex Maun 1 Cameleoline

 

Elite Mor Deythan Squad 6 Combi-flamer x6

Dedicated Darkwing 1 MM

Elite Veteran Tactical Squad 10 Sniper, vexilla, melta bombs, heavy bolter x2, AA, PFist

Elite Apothecary 2 Augury Scanner

Elite Contemptor dreadnought 1 1 Dreadnought CCW, Chainfist, graviton x2 in Dread Pod

 

Troops Tactical Squad 10 1 (Bolters) vexilla in Pod

Troops Tactical Squad 15 Vexilla, AA, PF

Troops Tactical Support Squad 8 1 Plasmagun x8 in Pod

 

Fast Attack Primaris Lightning 1 2x kraken turbo penetrators, ground attack, battle servitor

Fast Attack Seeker Team 10 1 Combi plasma x10 in Pod

Fast Attack Dark Fury Squad 8

 

Heavy Support Death storm Pod 1 Drop pod assault

 

 

List 4

- down to 3 pods

- lightning upgraded

- veterans equipped for CC and mounted in second dark wing

- no Primus

- additional tac squad amended to 15 with infiltrate and apothecary

- otherwise unchanged from list 2

 

HQ Alvarex Maun 1 Cameleoline

 

Elite Mor Deythan Squad 6 Combi-flamer x6

Dedicated Darkwing 1 MM

Elite Veteran Tactical Squad 10 Melta bombs, psword x3, AA, Paxe

Dedicated Darkwing 1 MM

Elite Apothecary 2 Augury Scanner X1

 

Troops Tactical Squad 15 Vexilla, AA, PF

Troops Tactical Squad 15 Vexilla, AA, PF

Troops Tactical Support Squad 8 1 Plasmagun x8 in Pod

 

Fast Attack Primaris Lightning 1 2x kraken turbo penetrators, ground attack, battle servitor

Fast Attack Seeker Team 10 1 Combi plasma x10 in Pod

Fast Attack Dark Fury Squad 8

 

Heavy Support Death storm Pod 1 Drop pod assault

 

 

List 5

- podding veterans with sniper

- no Primus

- heavy support squad with MLs and apothecary takes place of melta tac support

- remains at 5 pods

- otherwise unchanged

 

HQ Alvarex Maun 1 Cameleoline

 

Elite Mor Deythan Squad 6 Combi-flamer x6

Dedicated Darkwing 1 MM

Elite Apothecary 2 Augury Scanner X1

Elite Death storm Pod 1 Drop pod assault

Elite Veteran Tactical Squad 10 1 Vexilla, MBs, H flamer x2, PS x2, AA, PF&combi Flamer in Pod

 

Troops Tactical Squad 15 Vexilla, AA, PF

Troops Tactical Squad 10 1 (Bolters) vexilla in Pod

Troops Tactical Support Squad 8 1 Plasmagun x8 in Pod

 

Fast Attack Primaris Lightning 1 2x kraken turbo penetrators, ground attack, battle servitor

Fast Attack Seeker Team 10 1 Combi plasma x10 in Pod

Fast Attack Dark Fury Squad 8

 

Heavy Support Heavy support squad 8 ML x8

[Nusquam]

For the seekers, the strike leader can't take a combi plasma unfortunately.

 

Each of the lists look quality. The only thing i would suggest is to drop the melta bombs on the vets and grab a second set of turbo kraken s. The vets loaded to take out infantry rather than vehicles.

 

Other than that they reach have their own approach and tactics but all well within RGs MO. It'll come down to personal taste and play testing. Personally I'm a fan of list 3,bit that's because it's closest to my own taste.

[Guardian of the Rage]

Thanks Nusquam,

 

I have been going all sorts of things again, specifically

- not wanting to overly rely on reserves

- the rapier weapons battery

- ability to take out armoured vehicles/castelax

 

As a result I have come up with another list variant which puts a decent amount on the table and hopefully includes much in the way of punchy items whilst still remaining true to the decap strike feel.

 

HQ Alvarex Maun 1 Cameleoline

HQ Primus Medicae 1 Cameleoline

 

Elite Mor Deythan Squad 6 1 Combi-flamer x6 in Rhino

Elite Veteran Tactical Squad 10 Vexilla, MBs, H flamer x2, PS x2, AA, PF&combi Flamer

Dedicated Darkwing 1 MM

Elite Apothecary 1

Elite Rapier battery 3 6 Quad mortars x3

 

Troops Tactical Squad 15 Vexilla, AA, PF

Troops Tactical Squad 10 1 (Bolters) vexilla in Rhino

Troops Tactical Support Squad 8 1 Plasmagun x8 in Pod

 

Fast Attack Primaris Lightning 1 2x kraken turbo penetrators, ground attack, battle servitor

Fast Attack Seeker Team 10 1 Combi plasma x10 in Pod

Fast Attack Dark Fury Squad 8

 

Heavy Support Death storm Pod 1 Drop pod assault, Krak missiles

 

Essentially, rapiers, tac squad in rhino, 15 man tac squad and mor Deythan in rhino start on the table, infiltrating! Alvarex maun joins 15man team with apothecary while the Primus Medicae joins the rapiers. Furies deploy to set up future charges.

 

First turn the death storm and tactical support squad with plasma drop in to cause havoc on important squads and units, guided by the large unit attached to maun. Meanwhile rapiers target things, the mor Deythan move up to target troops and the rhino tacticals manoeuvre for objectives. Furies manouveur for 2nd turn charge.

 

Second turn, the seekers, vets in the dark wing and the Lightning take advantage of the rerolls from maun's trait to arrive 8/9 times. The lighting will target super heavies, the dark wing will attack vehicles while setting up a charge for the vets next turn and the seekers will pod in to attack the chosen target (with maun's no scatter). Furies charge large infantry units.

 

Essentially, if I haven t all but one the game at the end of my 2nd turn then it is time for the Ravens to return to the shadows...

 

What do you think?

 

Cheers,

[Nusquam]

Rapier just got changed, Shatter Shells are now +2MB per rapier to give them shatter shells, but they also got a bunch of other shell optiosn too. Like phosphex if you take a siege breaker. So you'll need to squeeze out 30 more points from somewhere eventually.

 

Whats the Vet tactic? Sniper? That works well with the flamers for psuedo rending and being able to charge. Also perfect use of a Darkwing.

Here's my thoughts on Deathstorms from another thread:
 

As for the deathstorms I'm not a huge fan of the krakstorms when compared to the fragstorms. They will average one S8 hit per target within 12"; Not very good for 145 points. If there was an option to not use the "FIREVERYTHING" option when they first come down then 10 S8 shots would be great. Or if each of the 5 launchers fired d3 times at BS2. But it's not likely your opponent will let it live to shoot at full tilt. Compared to the fragstorms blast shooting everything d3 times they suffer less from BS2.

My only recommendation would be to put another kraken set on the lightning so it can do a full rack of 4 into a spartan or something; because at 3k big AV14 things come out to play. Beyond that it look pretty solid.