Best bodyguard for non-primarchs

[Imperial Swine]

Hi,

 

I've been thinking of going full out with a deathstar to protect my mortal praetor from all foes. I've been thinking of kitting out Sigismund with a unit that not only compliments his abilities but makes them all the more powerful. But of course im indecisive... 

 

Command squad with charnabal sabres? Cheap, and because of Chosen warrior/and the IF buffs in a challenge/Siggy's +1 initiative first turn of combat/ and sabres giving +1 also in a challenge makes these a great buy for their points, but need a unit light on the invulnerable saves and low in wounds, so D-star vs D-star, these guys wont hold a candle. 

 

Going all out with shields for that sweet +1 Toughness using Stone Gauntlet. Breacher/Storm shields will certainly give them help in the close run, buffing siggy in a way that sees him "less dead". But its expensive, terminators in tartarus armour are a must buy for their buffs going well with Sigman's and a storm shield on top would see them eat another 150 points before theyre fully kitted out. And breacher shields on the unit above armed with sabres is good and defensive, but missing out on those extra attacks needed for unreliable rends.

 

Templars. Fan favourite, expensive and terrible models, and can mince a tactical squad in a second. Theyre ok and fluffy, but miss out on having Ap 2 to help Sigismund out when he's duelling enemy D-stars, being very unhelpful for those 2+ armour saves. 

 

So what have you, which one would see me carry the day against those heretic heathens?

[helterskelter]

The primary question is at which points level are you playing. This in turn helps you determine the level at which you may have a preference towards. Because in your head you know what you really want. But do you have the points to justify it

[shandwen]

Pffft. Invictus Suzarains. Best bodyguard squad in the game (and can be taken as a command squad). Only downside ia that you would have to ally them in.

Edit: but on a serious note an IF terminator squad with some shields and fists/thunder hammers in tartarus armor is pure terror to face now (and relatively cheap... relatively).

[Hesh Kadesh]

Double post

[Hesh Kadesh]

Neither can they go in a Transport as allies.

 

Veterans with combat shields and furious charge in a pod. Solarite Gauntlet, and Power Weapons to taste. Maybe Meltagun to let them try amd kill a vehicle.

 

Templars aren't bad. Just make sure you don't get in a challenge with Fearless 2+ saves and you're fine, which in a dreadclaw is rather easy to do. Take a Radnade Forge Lord if you have trouble with FNP to let Sigi and your power axes just obliterate it.

 

Stone Gauntlet is a trap. You should never run it unless you are serious about sitting in your home objective and not getting into CC until turn 5. You lose the toughness bonus if you charge. And Deep Striking Storm Shield Terminator Pride Lists are one okay build against skmething like NL or RG.

[Imperial Swine]

The primary question is at which points level are you playing. This in turn helps you determine the level at which you may have a preference towards. Because in your head you know what you really want. But do you have the points to justify it

 

2500 is my intended goal, which at that level I 'should' expect a primarch/character in a beefed up unit. A lovely 8 man terminator unit, techmarine/primus medicae, and sigismund driving about in a spartan would be a dream come true, but thats +850 points. And I don't trust people enough to NOT bring a knight at that level who would have Strength D for close combat. 

Neither can they go in a Transport as allies.

 

Veterans with combat shields and furious charge in a pod. Solarite Gauntlet, and Power Weapons to taste. Maybe Meltagun to let them try amd kill a vehicle.

 

Templars aren't bad. Just make sure you don't get in a challenge with Fearless 2+ saves and you're fine, which in a dreadclaw is rather easy to do. Take a Radnade Forge Lord if you have trouble with FNP to let Sigi and your power axes just obliterate it.

 

Stone Gauntlet is a trap. You should never run it unless you are serious about sitting in your home objective and not getting into CC until turn 5. You lose the toughness bonus if you charge. And Deep Striking Storm Shield Terminator Pride Lists are one okay build against skmething like NL or RG.

 

Darn, I was so tempted to have a reason to run Stone Gauntlet, I like playing defensively and T5 is just so tempting, but I guess I cant justify putting such an expensive unit in the back benches hoping someone survives all that BS5 bolter fire. Aye, i like the whole deep striking terminators a lot more, I think i must just take a kitted praetor to take sigismund's place so he can deep strike without the need for an expensive transport. 

 

Thanks for advice. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

Sigismund is wonderful. If you bring a Praetor, and you're kitting him to be in an assault, you've got to weigh up if he's going to be worth it up against maybe spending 50pts more and getting Sigismund.

 

The most important difference is that Sigismund does not have Instant Death outside of challenges, and a normal Praetor can pick up Terminator Armour (which can now Sweep, cheers FAQ!) a Storm Shield for a 3++, and a Chainfist to hit both Dreadnoughts and vehicles. To get ID on Sigismund, you need to spend another ~120pts on a reasonably kitted Forge Lord with Rad Grenades, or get him into challenges.

 

This is one option; 

 

Praetor, Tartaros Armour, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield, Master-crafted Chainfist, Digital Lasers = 205. You can save 15pts on the Master-crafting if you wish, and 10 on the Grenade Harness. This brings it to the 50pts diffence, although as it stands, it's only 25pts difference between the two.

 

This allows you to pick up a Terminator Command Squad; - presuming of course again that you can take additional members. if not, it's a bit cheaper.

 

Legion Command Squad, 1 Additional Member, Tartaros Armour, 3 Vigil Pattern Storm Shields, Thunder Hammer, Chainfist, 2x Powerfist, Iliastus Pattern Assault Cannon, Grenade Harness = 270

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod = 100

 

You can obviously split the upgrades as per you decide, but this gives you a unit with a majority 3++ Save. If the Ancient is houseruled to get the Character special rule like it should, then it gains a 4+ Look Out Sir Roll, which combined with 2 wounds makes it quite a good platform for the Assault Cannon. It kind of makes for a rather cool pose IMHO as well - holding aloft a Banner while one handed minigunning everything down while the Praetor leads the charge/leads a Roman Shield Wall. 

 

The Problem with Deep Striking, is that despite it costing only 25pts (to attach the character, he must have Deep Strike rule too), it also costs your ability to get into an assault until turn 3. You don't really want that, IMHO. It's fine on normal Legion Terminators - although I rarely bother to give them shields, instead giving them an Iliastus Cannon, Plasma Blaster or Combi-Melta and Deep strike them nude with some Chainfists to hunt armour left hanging around at the back. 

 

With Sigismund, it's 

 

230

Veteran Squad, x8, Power Weapons x7, Combat Shields x8, Meltabombs x8, Meltagun x1, Thunder Hammer = 349pts

Dreadclaw = 100

 

So call it 640pts vs 575. To make the Veterans a little bit better, as said, you may want a 120pt Forge Lord in there, so it's nearer 760pts if you go that route. Sigismund is a Premium option, however, and no matter how powerful the enemies command, you will see Sigismund come out on top (although Primarchs, even weak Corax, Angron or weak Lorgar is likely to win against Sigismund). Only thing to watch out for really is a Firedrake unit with a character in - their Praetors can take Eternal Warrior which hampers his effectiveness, and the rest of the unit can batter pretty much any Imperial Fist squad with ease thanks to the extra wound and WS5. As an example of his effectiveness, I've seen Sevatar kill 3 Castellax in a single turn, thanks to getting into a challenge against a Praevian, and the carry over wounds killing them - Sigi is harder (reroll enemies Invulnerables) and tougher (4 Wounds, EW, 2+ Save).

 

The T5 sounds awesome, but you are severely hampered. You cannot Run or Assault to make use of it, so you're limited to a 6" Move each turn. You can't Deep Strike, so you have no outer field movement, and the FAQ has neglected to allow Polux the ability to DS he guys despite that, and as the FAQ now takes precedence over the earlier FW email response supposedly allowing it, you are limited to vehicles for outer field movement. But you're in Terminator Armour or Breachers, who cannot take Rhino's, and Drop Pods are a no go, so that limits you to Storm Eagles or Proteus' for your cheapest movement, or taking a Vigilator - the problem of that being you can only take a single Consul. The other option is to take a Delegatus, and roll against Strategic, and hope that you get the Infiltrate special rule. While there's nothing forcing you to keep in Resolve of Stone formation, the bonuses are just so "good" and the entire reason you've taken it that to run/assault is counter intuitive. The additional problem is that you're limited to taking more Troops than Elites. Fast Attack you can live without, especially as you're not Deep striking, so no need for Dreaclaws.

 

As a defensive player, this means you're going to be maximising your Heavy Support - probably with some Sicarans to give you some width. Breachers are expensive, but to have 2 units of Terminators, you'll need to run 3 units of Breachers. 2 Terminators with Storm Shields is 500pts with Power Axes and the ability to Run and Sweep, or 450 with Slow and Purposeful, and 3 Minimum Breachers is 675 before upgrades. Throw on your Praetor and inevitable command squad, and there's another 450-500pts down, and that's 1675, before heavy support. So, you're 1675, you have a tooled Praetor and bodyguard, sure, but they're not getting into CC until you charge (assuming most CC armies have a 3 turns, that's move 18, Run 2d6, Charge 2d6, for an average reach of 32", to keep the T5 you've already shelled out for, it's Move 18", Charge 2d6 - so 25" - in otherwords, another turn of movement, and having to roll above average for charge distance to get T5. As well as giving up Stubborn, and access to mass BS5 Bolter fire.

 

While Synergy is one of those rather annoying buzz words that crops up every so often and I dislike myself for using it, the list just doesn't meld or mesh or synergise at all. Get bonuses for staying static, but can't do anything with the units that you keep static due to giving up the Bolters you get BS5 with or being limited to short range weapons, have to take a 225pt tax unit to take additional elites like those Terminators you want with the Storm Shields, or something more useful with a bit of reach like Rapiers. You can't Deep Strike to give you any out field deployment, and the cheapest transport vehicle you have is 200pts and only comes with a pair of Lascannons. To have any outfield presence, you need to give up you access to any useful consul to get a single additional 6" move on a unit that if not supported gets mobbed and killed.

 

And all that said and done, if your opponent has any of the well known killer units, like Medusa, Typhon, Plasma/Melta Preds, you have no bonus (except maybe FNP, which you have to spend a further 225pts to unlock if you want to utilise any Terminators outside of the command squad, or resilience against Bolters, which honestly, such a great many people try to avoid spending extra on, it's just not worth it). So you can't kill enemies, and you can't get any outfield presence, so you can't hold objectives/counter them effectively, without giving up the benefits that you already gave up so much for to take T5. It's a complete trap, and arguably the worst possible thing you can do to build an army. Even the Logos Lectura, Black Reaving and Covenant of Fire do more than that. The only thing that makes it not rank last is the Iron Warriors Rite of War - again, I question who needs 5 heavy support slots.