The Perfect Cut- Mara Skara, Emperor's Children 3,000 Points

[WGXH]

Hi all,

 

Starting to take my first steps into an older world.

 + HQ + Legion Centurion [Artificer Armour, Boarding Shield, Jump Pack, Phoenix Spear, Sonic Shrieker, Void Shield Harness][Legion Champion] Legion Centurion[Phoenix Spear, Sonic Shrieker, Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon][Chaplain] Legion Centurion  [Jump Pack, Nanyte Blaster, Power Weapon, Scout Armour, Sonic Shrieker][Vigilator] + Troops  + Legion Tactical Squad  [Legion Tactical Sergeant, 19x Legion Tactical Space Marines ] Legion Tactical Squad [Legion Tactical Sergeant, 19x Legion Tactical Space Marines ] + Elites + Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought  [Extra Armour, Havoc Launcher , Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons ] Legion Terminator Squad [2x Chainfist, 9x Legion Terminators, 3x Pair of Lightning Claws, 2x Plasma Blaster, 4x Power Fist), Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon]Palatine Blade Squad  [Jump packs, Palatine Prefector, 9x Palatine Warrior, Sonic Shriekers ] Palatine Blade Squad [Jump packs, Palatine Prefector, 9x Palatine Warrior, Sonic Shriekers ] + Heavy Support  + Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought [Aiolos Missile Launcher, Armoured Ceramite, Single twin-linked Hellfire Plasma Cannonade]  + Lord of War  + Fulgrim the Illuminator (380pts) [Fireblade]

The tactics behind the list are relatively simple. The attack will be melee-based, in successive waves.

 

Wave #1

 

The Vigilator infiltrates inside terrain with some Palatine Blades.

 

Wave #2

 

Fulgrim marches through the field alongside his Tactical friends, alongside his Champion and the second squad of Palatine Blades.

The Deredeo dreadnought lumbers behind as backup.

 

Wave #3

SURPRISE. Contemptor-Mortis and a Chaplain-led Terminator squad appear to harry your rear.

 

Any thoughts or advice is appreciated, as I am a 30k newbie.

 

Regards

WGXH

[Slips]

A few things first:

 

1- Per the most Recent FAQ: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf Relics are no longer part of Standard 30k Play and if you want to use them you need to clear them with your Opponent First.

 

2- As per the GW BRB FAQ, Infiltrate is a non-conferrable rule now meaning that the whole unit needs to have infiltrate to deploy in that manner (Luckily with Fulgrim you can just pick the Strategic WL Trait that permits it) and thus means that you can no longer attach characters with infiltrate to a unit that doesnt have it due to how the rule affects deployment and such. Meaning that you cant infiltrate-deploy with a Vigilator unless the unit has infiltrate too.

 

So, at most, that means you give him Artificer Armor now and use the Scout move he does confer onto the unit if you want to keep him in; I'd do this anyways since Fulgrim can just give the Whole Unit Infiltrate with the Right Warlord Trait and you'd have a more resilient HQ as a result.

 

3- I assume that you're using Tartaros or Indomitus (dont its objectively worse than Tartaros/Cataphractii) since Maru Skara prevents the use of units that are "Slow" aka Cataphractii

 

4- You always want to support a Primarch. Bubblewrapping him in 3+ armor might be ok vs 40k Armies but vs 30k Armies, they're liable to getting Vaped rather easily. If anything, I'd re-evaluate your method for employing your Primarch; especially since they're only truly useful for: their combat punch and army buffs. And for one, walking a Primarch across the board in the hopes of getting into combat is not the way I'd go about doing it.

 

5- The Chaplain would be better off with Palatine Blades to give them a On-The-Charge Boost since thats what makes or Breaks the unit. Getting Re-rolls, Zealot and all the other buffs the army provides on top of that to help them properly do their job. Especially since they only have 3+ armor (the most common armor save in 30k) and thus the most easily removed due to all  armies having a way to vape them reliably in one form or another. You'd also want a couple (1in3, imo) Phoenix Power Spears in the unit to give them some Ap2 Punch on the Charge and Ap3 otherwise to help them out since Rending Ap5 Charnabal Sabers (who only give +1 Ini in a Challenge) aren't the best weapon to hedge bets on for a CC Focused Unit...especially compared to other CC Focused units having liberal access to Ap3/2.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I think you're going to have some serious anti armor problems. Except for the chainfists, you have nothing that can really touch high armor, and you only have two units that can even deal with armor at range. For starters, I'd highly recommend swapping the hellfire cannonade for the deredeo autocannon. With sunder it's far better against armor, and you hardly need the ap2 blasts given your terminators can deal with other terminators. Next I'd drop the vigilator to free up some pts-you certainly don't need him since as Slipstreams pointed out you can just take the infiltrate warlord trait on Fulgrim. I'd also make your marine units ten strong and throw them in rhinos to save more pts. 

 

That should give you enough pts for some more heavy anti tank options. If you want something cheap, I'm a big fan of the javelin land speeders. Two speeders with hunter killers and a multi melta is going to give you ten s8 shots for one turn. If you want something a bit more durable, the sicaran is an excellent tank good for dealing with most vehicles. 

 

Also the terminators would be a much better escort for Fulgrim then the tacticals. 

[WGXH]

Thanks for the advice, all.

 

I was most certainly unaware of the relic ruling, and the infiltrate one- so it's back to the drawing board for that. Not a problem, however.

 

and yes, Tartaros pattern armour was the plan due to the ruling of the Maru Skara.

 

I was contemplating taking Child of Terra or Paladin of Glory for Fulgrim, as opposed to infiltrating- though of course, depending on the opposition.

 

I acknowledge the long-range anti-tank is lacking, which is why I wanted to be up and in their face as soon as is humanly possible.

 

Looking like ditching the Vigilator, the relics, and then some.

 

What is generally the best escort for the Phoenican? Just basic Terminators? and if I am going to start anew with this, would it be best to have some large melee squads deploy via Kharybdis? I certainly don't mind the idea of running a list as though it were a boarding party, so long as it's got relative flexibility to accomodate enemy armour.

 

Regards

WGXH

[Caillum]

With all Primarch escorts, there's a need to consider their combat effectiveness. If they are too good, you'll win combat by a lot (with the EC bonuses), make a re-rollable Sweeping Advance and catch them. While this is not necessarily a bad thing, if you're out in the open, you can be targeted by the enemy's ranged firepower. Just a situation that needs to be considered, that's all.

 

Having said that, with Tartaros Terminators being able to sweep, they and Phoenix Terminators are looking pretty good now! As you said, having them jump out of a Kharybdis or some other Assault Transport is a good plan.

[Theredknight]

With all Primarch escorts, there's a need to consider their combat effectiveness. If they are too good, you'll win combat by a lot (with the EC bonuses), make a re-rollable Sweeping Advance and catch them. While this is not necessarily a bad thing, if you're out in the open, you can be targeted by the enemy's ranged firepower. Just a situation that needs to be considered, that's all.

 

Having said that, with Tartaros Terminators being able to sweep, they and Phoenix Terminators are looking pretty good now! As you said, having them jump out of a Kharybdis or some other Assault Transport is a good plan.

Primarch fulgrim rides in no less than a spartan or storm eagle (preferably the former) as he will be a massive bullet magnet.

Sweeping is only good against non-fearless units, fulgrim can help with that one with his combat resolution.

Doesn't matter about being in the open, you want to utterly crush your enemy on the charge, otherwise if your up against termies, you will suffer hits, and ap3 is pants against term armour. Again fulgrim should help with that. Mashing any character of note in a challenge.

Obviously as caillum says, situational, and you will get a consolidation move.

[Caustic63]

Hi all,

 

Starting to take my first steps into an older world.

 + HQ + Legion Centurion [Artificer Armour, Boarding Shield, Jump Pack, Phoenix Spear, Sonic Shrieker, Void Shield Harness][Legion Champion] Legion Centurion[Phoenix Spear, Sonic Shrieker, Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon][Chaplain] Legion Centurion  [Jump Pack, Nanyte Blaster, Power Weapon, Scout Armour, Sonic Shrieker][Vigilator] + Troops  + Legion Tactical Squad  [Legion Tactical Sergeant, 19x Legion Tactical Space Marines ] Legion Tactical Squad [Legion Tactical Sergeant, 19x Legion Tactical Space Marines ] + Elites + Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought  [Extra Armour, Havoc Launcher , Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons ] Legion Terminator Squad [2x Chainfist, 9x Legion Terminators, 3x Pair of Lightning Claws, 2x Plasma Blaster, 4x Power Fist), Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon]Palatine Blade Squad  [Jump packs, Palatine Prefector, 9x Palatine Warrior, Sonic Shriekers ] Palatine Blade Squad [Jump packs, Palatine Prefector, 9x Palatine Warrior, Sonic Shriekers ] + Heavy Support  + Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought [Aiolos Missile Launcher, Armoured Ceramite, Single twin-linked Hellfire Plasma Cannonade]  + Lord of War  + Fulgrim the Illuminator (380pts) [Fireblade]

The tactics behind the list are relatively simple. The attack will be melee-based, in successive waves.

 

Wave #1

 

The Vigilator infiltrates inside terrain with some Palatine Blades.

 

Wave #2

 

Fulgrim marches through the field alongside his Tactical friends, alongside his Champion and the second squad of Palatine Blades.

The Deredeo dreadnought lumbers behind as backup.

 

Wave #3

SURPRISE. Contemptor-Mortis and a Chaplain-led Terminator squad appear to harry your rear.

 

Any thoughts or advice is appreciated, as I am a 30k newbie.

 

Regards

WGXH

 

I think you are going to have some critical problems trying to make this list work as you intend it to. With so many large and expensive squads, the lack of Meltabombs means you are dangerously vulnerable to being tarpitted in combat by AV13 Dreadnaughts. This is in addition to the fact your sergeants are poorly equipped in terms of close combat weapons (why do only your HQs have Spears?) and your large Tactical squads should have Vexillas to at least have some insurance against them running away. Terminators on foot are too slow to make it into combat until Turns 3 or 4 and by then they will be mostly dead against a competant opponent. The same goes for Fulgrim - he needs a delivery mechanism. There's also the above mentioned problems with using a Vigilator (doesn't confer Infiltrate, can't take a Power Spear) which IMO make him inferior to a Primus Medicae in this situation but that's dependant on what you want to achieve. The combination of Scout, Stealth and Move Through Cover could be worth it though with the right plan.