sibomots Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I'm getting old but I love games. I truly admire and enjoy the WH 40k game. My army is Black Templars. Yet when I get to the point of putting paint on the plastic, my physical realities become the focus of my problem. I simply cannot paint worth a darn. Eyesight is getting dim and my hands jitter (I've tried steadying them, etc..). I just cannot keep the brush where it ought to be, and even the burr-removal, mold-line removal process is getting tricky for me. I'm looking for suggestions to the problem of "preparing the painted army such that I can still play them but they have limited detail in the painting and still qualify". I think that the rules of the game (Crunch) don't really have an item that the models have to be painted (or even painted well). But in general when you play what's the general mood at your game-shop-play-location. For you young-ins, you got nothing to worry about yet. Paint 'em all before you turn 35 and you should be fine! ;-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Black spray paint, bone colored tabards using a couple of thick coats, red Templar crosses, clean up the black that may have gotten bone on it. If you have to do any details, dry-brush, it's probably the most forgiving "messy method" for bringing out detail. Clean up with black afterward. It's that, learning exactly what your limitations won't let you do and do everything else, or get a commission painter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4278410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Base coat, wash and drybrush is your answer here. It picks out the surface details and doesn't require much precision. In terms of shaky hands, the tip shown to me at GW was helpful, holding your wrists touching at the base of your hands helps ensure any shakiness moves both model and brush and reduces mistakes. Alternatively get a bench magnifying glass with clip holders Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4278762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlson793 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Get a cheap pair of readers at your local Walmart or other discount store. They're usually in the pharmacy area. Currently I'm using 2x glasses, but thinking of getting a pair or two of 4x. Just remember to take them off before walking away from your paint station, especially if you've been painting for a while. I don't recommend a bench magnifier like Lucio - I find those make it too difficult to judge where my brush is in relation to the model. With readers, the magnification is a constant distance from my eyes, so judging where my hands are in relation to the model is easier. Plus I find it's easier to adjust the model to see where I've missed a spot if I have it in hand vs. attached to my table with clips. When painting details, I've gotten into the habit now of holding the model with one hand, bracing that hand against my chest (and not too far from my face), then bracing the brush hand on chest and/or holding hand. As soon as either hand starts to shake, sit back, relax the hand for a couple/few seconds, then get back too it. The two big issues I've started to encounter - hands going numb and shoulders starting to ache - have the same solution: walk away from the paint station for 15-60 minutes. Sometimes I can go less, but the only time I'm not ready to start painting again after an hour is because I've got something else I want to take care of. I'm also finding assembly line works great for getting something done before age makes me stop. Grab a bunch of models, paint one color and/or part of each model; if the body's still good, paint the next color/part, otherwise get up and head to the kitchen for coffee/iced tea. Doing that, I've gotten a four (small) units of Skitarii almost ready for the FLGS this weekend. Oh! And don't forget brushes! Remember those big fat crayons we used back in grade school? Well, find the paint brush equivalent. Atlas has a good line of triangular handle brushes that were my workhorses for years (got mine at Hobbytown USA). Also, Hobby Lobby has a couple good store brands (some in the modeling aisle, some in the art supply aisles). One set is black handled with a decently fat body near the tip. The other is red handled, smaller, but has three finger grooves around the body that are easy to grip for an extended period. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4278807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_F_H Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Well you can always breed your own assembly and painting servitors... My daughter already seams facinated with the few figures she has gotten her hands on, even sets them down right on their bases carefully. .. pretty good for 17 months. .. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4278844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine God Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Well you can always breed your own assembly and painting servitors... My daughter already seams facinated with the few figures she has gotten her hands on, even sets them down right on their bases carefully. .. pretty good for 17 months. .. Just wait until she starts eating them! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4278992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlson793 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Well you can always breed your own assembly and painting servitors... My daughter already seams facinated with the few figures she has gotten her hands on, even sets them down right on their bases carefully. .. pretty good for 17 months. .. Better than my 12yo and his friends. They're at an age where they don't know how much space their bodies currently take up, and invariably knock over the box on the shelf I've got my current project sitting in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4279109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sibomots Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Alright. I think I get the gist of it. I have good moments and bad moments. When my hands settle down and I can force myself to keep steady I can paint shoulder pad borders really good, etc.. When my hands act up I work on bigger things. All in all, it's reassuring that I'm mostly not alone in this regard. Thanks for the advice and encouragement. One of these days I'll post some pictures of how far along I can get. BT have some interesting painting challenges: white robes, red backs, red tassels, black/or white crosses here and there -- usually small on the bolter, helmet, or shoulder, belt-buckle, etc.. Actually, when I finally figure out how to make a video that is decent quality, I'll post a clip showing my technique and then viewers can comment on what I'm doing incorrectly (main purpose of posting). It's difficult to explain it, but a video showing "this is what I did, how can I improve my technique" may be informative for myself and others perhaps. Just waiting for some vow-challenge inspiration (aka ZEAL) to catapult me into the model-painting chair for more than 2hrs at a time. Thanks again, -sibomots Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4279257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaldoth Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 My grandfather has been painting miniatures for going on 30+ years now. His eyesight has gone pretty bad, and he has a degenerative nerve disease that keeps him from being able to grab a paint brush with his fingertips. It sucks to see him struggle with what he's passionate about, but he manages. I know he invested in an opti-visor to help combat his eyesight. I also purchased one and it's an all around good tool for detail work. I highly recommend picking one up. As far as the shakes, try techniques that don't require steady hands. Instead of layering and edging, try washing and drybrushing :) After I came home from overseas, I developed some pretty bad shaking in my hands, so I've resigned myself to techniques that don't require technical "accuracy." Cheers, -Kal Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4279354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Hydrate with H2O ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4279470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mattias Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 These are useful tips; I'd love to see more. I have a close relative who wanted to get back into the hobby, but despite his young age, he has to take regular medication which messes with his fine motor skills and leads to shaky hands. Has anyone had any success with multiple spray-paints at different angles, followed up with a dunk in strong tone and a quick dry brush? I feel like that should be able to create something interesting, without the investment of many brushes/airbrushes. I want to help him get a decent tabletop look going on, and I can always offer to do some details for him whenever I get the chance, but I wouldn't want to just paint it all for him as he really wants to feel like it is 'his.' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4284877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Has anyone had any success with multiple spray-paints at different angles, followed up with a dunk in strong tone and a quick dry brush? I actually used that technique to do a Tzeentch Daemons force; alternating purple and blue sprays on the models and washing. Looked quite good, like the colours were shifting across the models as no two had quite the same combination. So yeah, it can be done. Somebody I know actually did a Sons of Orar army with just sprays; built the marines without weapons/helmets/shoulders and sprayed those red, sprayed the weapons metal and the heads/shoulders white while still on the sprue, assembled and then dipped the whole model. Really quite effective with almost minimal effort. Obviously changes to the way kits are put together these days (i.e. hands on bolters) would make that slightly trickier now but as long as you're clear about which colours you wanted on which parts before you start building, should work nicely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4284933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mattias Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Those are some great ideas, thanks! I Don't suppose there are any pictures floating around for this sort of technique? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4284966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sibomots Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 My input would be to be careful about the spray-paint. I've noticed some brands produce a very rough orange-peel surface and it was a down-side surprise. The P3 aerosol paints seem to put the finest texture among the brands (GW, TheArmyPainter, etc..). ArmyPainter produced the worst outcome with a grainy orange-peel surface that made me give up on it. Besides that technique, the airbrush primer technique seems to supersede the quality of an aerosol paint. But the additional hardware and preparation/cleanup may be too much for some. I do have some macro-lens pictures of different effects but alas they are on a different computer at the moment. I'll try to upload what I've done in comparing effects. And I am sorry to stray a bit off topic here: doing a bit of homework I found the WhiteDwarf issues 309 + 310 have some interesting information regarding Black Templar painting that I admit was a mystery to me at first. I think that goes more to the point of "paint this before that" topic. Thanks -sibomots Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4285190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeBob Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I have incredibly unsteady hands and I somehow seem to manage. My wife thinks that it is because I hold my breath when I paint fiddly stuff or small detail. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4285471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 ArmyPainter produced the worst outcome with a grainy orange-peel surface that made me give up on it. I've found that of the Army Painter sprays I've used, Alien Purple, Crystal Blue and Dragon Red all produced decent quality finishes, nice and smooth. That said, I had a terrible experience with their Matt White Undercoat which produced a horrible grainy finish, as if the model had been dunked in sand before spraying. Ruined a whole batch of models and I've never used it again, although it could well just have been the conditions on the day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4285879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venerable Jazzman Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 As others have said, make sure you brace your hands together so that if they move, they move together. Holding your breath for the fiddly bits seems to work, and the ever-faithful poking the tongue out of the corner of your mouth seems to help too. Making sure you've got decent light is a necessity as well - i picked up a couple of work lights from IKEA a few years ago and they've made a real difference - not so much in quality, but being able to paint for longer without getting tired eyes. My biggest bugbear with getting old (48 now), is taking off my glasses to paint, and then having to put them back on to find stuff on my work-desk - I need a pair of upside down bifocals I guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4285960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlson793 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 ...and the ever-faithful poking the tongue out of the corner of your mouth seems to help too. Okay, the rest of us left that bit out because it's Model Painting 101. Everyone KNOWS if the tongue isn't out, the paint just does not work. Duh! My biggest bugbear with getting old (48 now), is taking off my glasses to paint, and then having to put them back on to find stuff on my work-desk - I need a pair of upside down bifocals I guess. My trick from back when I wore glasses for vision issues is to slide 'em down closer to the tip of the nose. That way, when you don't need 'em, you can look over the top, and when you do, just tip your head up slightly, and they're back in your field of vision. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4286251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqui Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Has anyone had any success with multiple spray-paints at different angles, followed up with a dunk in strong tone and a quick dry brush? I use Halfords car spray paints. My Sisters Rhinos are sprayed grey (complete coverage, although I usually do two-four light sprays to avoid getting too much on the model), then a couple of go overs with white at a different angle to catch the raised surfaces (usually around 45 degrees). It can be a little hit and miss if I don't concentrate, but it gives the model a bit more depth. I don't dip, but give the model a coat of Nuln oil (admittedly, it can get rather streaky, but it's enough for me). As for keeping my hands steady, in addition to my variation of the handling method mentioned already, I tend to take a breath and breathe out slowly as I'm painting. In my case, I find it hard to do fiddly things like paint eyes, but breathing out slowly helps me Sibo - practice is the key, but most importantly, if you aren't enjoying it, painting becomes a chore. The chore is the enemy - don't let it win! Also, if you haven't already, start a WIP. Having others encouraging you and giving you tips and ideas will help you in many ways. It certainly has for me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4289709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bung Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Well if nothing helps with getting older just cheat if you paint. ;) Use oil colors or other stuff to make your life more easy. If you dont have a steady hand for edge highlights with a brush then use something else. Look here: http://airbrushandanalog.blogspot.nl/2015/12/cheat-edge-highlights.html For engraced thingies and so look here: http://airbrushandanalog.blogspot.nl/2015/12/quickly-pint-engraved-glyphs-osl.html There are just 2 things to make your painting life more easy just look out for other things that may help you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4290129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I have no solutions that will work for you overnight but if you want new painted figures 10 years later: 1. (Optional, but kind of recommended) Get married 2. Sire a kid 3. Wait 10 years 4. Get your kid into 40K 5. Get your kid to paint your army Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4292865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW1 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I have no solutions that will work for you overnight but if you want new painted figures 10 years later: 1. (Optional, but kind of recommended) Get married 2. Sire a kid 3. Wait 10 years 4. Get your kid into 40K 5. Get your kid to paint your army Lol ... I decided on this just before I turned 30. Eldest is now 8 and showing signs of interest in gaming (nicking my CoD scenery and the odd tank and marines) and then arguing with his little brother about who can see who and throwing a strop when his 5 year old brother just moves a building so his men can see. :) They both wanted paintbrushes for Christmas. But the youngest mainly because his brother was having some rather than wanting to paint properly. But the eldest lad has already dabbled a bit painting wise and showing promise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4293032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Butcher Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I use a headset magnifier, they are very good indeed for close up work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4294530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 I'm not over forty-five, but I've got coffee hands and arthritis at 21 thanks to some nasty genes. What I do is just use "cheats" like the army painter system. Basically just basecoat everything in simple colors, then dunk in glorified technical wood varnish. As for sight, I imagine a jeweler's glasses would do you wonders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4295656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sibomots Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 Upshot - Paint anyway you can make it work. Use aids, magnification, lights, etc.. Draw strength from your Black Templar vows of ZEAL Take breaks. Recruit neophytes to paint their share. Resolve to paint in order to make "a giant zerg rush" of crusade against "nearest alien/mutant/heretic". Then more crusade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318296-disregard-unless-youre-over-45/#findComment-4313018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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