Successors and iconography

[Firepower]

Glad to know they're recognizable as fangs :)

[Pinkn0ise]

Personally, i would add that there is two possible point of view about the Blood Angels iconography whitin their successors :

For, the extreme exemple, The Flesh Tearers :

- Also, we can cleary imagine, that the Flesh Tearers have forsake most of the Winged iconography, as it remind them their fallen glory of old and that they consider themselves as fallen angels.....

So following this exemple and given the Bits at disposition, i can say that, for a force of Flesh Tearers, you keep all non winged part, and assemble them appart with FT shoulders, while the Winged part are either for Vet, or for another BA successor^^.

I want to start a flesh tearers army. I really dig BA and their successors, but I dislike the bright red... I like it dark

When I look at Gabriel Seth model (not his terrible head), I see a lot of wings sculpted with red gems. However, the blood drops are surrounded by sawblades and where you would expect a blood drop there is just a gem...

When I look at the FW Flesh Tearers etched brass, I see winged blood drops with a sawblade on the blood drop.

My plan is to use all of the bits, but convert/resculpt/paint the BA icon:

- winged gem

- winged saw blade

- winged blood drops with a painted sawblade on the blood drop

I just can't waste all those precious bits, can I?

I hope my analysis is useful!

[ChapelXIII]

I ended up spending a lot of time with the idea of my army and the symbology behind it. I had the name and paint style before anything else and was just trying to figure out how to make it work when I got the dark vengeance set. After looking everything I figured out a mix between the Dark Angels and Blood Angels as a way to make use of all of my miniatures. That is a good place to start I think. Just looking at the miniatures and figuring out what you can do with the available miniatures. 

[ElectricPaladin]

I ended up spending a lot of time with the idea of my army and the symbology behind it. I had the name and paint style before anything else and was just trying to figure out how to make it work when I got the dark vengeance set. After looking everything I figured out a mix between the Dark Angels and Blood Angels as a way to make use of all of my miniatures. That is a good place to start I think. Just looking at the miniatures and figuring out what you can do with the available miniatures. 

 

I've got to say... I love Dark Angels bits - I just hate the Dark Angels. My current homebrew chapter is using Dark Angels veteran bodies for my honor guard squad... and I'm trying to decide if I want to use them for all veteran squads (ie. sternguard, command squad, etc).

[Frater Antodeniel]

 

I ended up spending a lot of time with the idea of my army and the symbology behind it. I had the name and paint style before anything else and was just trying to figure out how to make it work when I got the dark vengeance set. After looking everything I figured out a mix between the Dark Angels and Blood Angels as a way to make use of all of my miniatures. That is a good place to start I think. Just looking at the miniatures and figuring out what you can do with the available miniatures. 

 

I've got to say... I love Dark Angels bits - I just hate the Dark Angels. My current homebrew chapter is using Dark Angels veteran bodies for my honor guard squad... and I'm trying to decide if I want to use them for all veteran squads (ie. sternguard, command squad, etc).

 

 

You know, i even had the idea to build a Terminator Sanguinary Guard using, the Blood Angels terminators and the Grey Knight Paladin. (A cheap trick that would cost near to nothing if you know at least one person that play GK and who have either right hand blade/spears left, but if you want SGTS without the BA shields, you will have the need of the paladin left arm...).

[Arkangilos]

Personally, i would add that there is two possible point of view about the Blood Angels iconography whitin their successors :

 

- First, you consider that Blood Angels and their successors are Codex Compliant (What i consider a non-sense given their fluff, but confirmed in some way within the BA codex), and so, each BA chapter are considered an independant chapter while still keeping some iconography, but not too much. (Less Freedom, Less Logic )

 

- Second, you consider the Blood Angels and their successors as Non Codex Compliant, like the wolves, and because of it, Blood Angels successors iconography is directly bound to their Legion iconography, Squad Marking...etc. You can also admit, in such point of view, that some chapter may have become Codex Compliant while others (Flesh Tearers) are clearly the Wolves of the Blood Angels legion^^. (More Freedom, More Fluffy Logic)

 

For, the extreme exemple, The Flesh Tearers :

 

- Fondator, and first chapter master Nassir Amit, never liked the Codex, nor Guilliman....so we can easily admit that from the begining, the Flesh Tearers retained most of their Chapter-Legion organisation and vision of war.

- Also, we can cleary imagine, that the Flesh Tearers have forsake most of the Winged iconography, as it remind them their fallen glory of old and that they consider themselves as fallen angels.....

 

So following this exemple and given the Bits at disposition, i can say that, for a force of Flesh Tearers, you keep all non winged part, and assemble them appart with FT shoulders, while the Winged part are either for Vet, or for another BA successor^^.

 

(Personnally, for my Exsanguinators, i retain the Winged+Drop iconography, and each miniature have the BA shoulder + the Chapter symbol shoulder. And of course they retain most of the Blood Angels iconography.)

Ok, first of all, why is it nonsense that the Blood Angels are codex compliant? They have ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS been codex compliant, with VERY few exceptions.

 

Second, they are NOT like the wolves when it comes to codex compliance, and saying so is COMPLETELY against the ENTIRE character of the chapter. 

 

Also, them being codex compliant and not being codex compliant has NOTHING to do with legion iconography. Someone has already pointed out the examples with the Fists and the Crimson fists.

 

And the Flesh Tearers are also codex compliant, they just have suffered so many losses that they CANNOT continue to be to the level of the Blood Angels.

 

- Fondator, and first chapter master Nassir Amit, never liked the Codex, nor Guilliman....so we can easily admit that from the begining, the Flesh Tearers retained most of their Chapter-Legion organisation and vision of war.

 

NO. The Imperial Fists didn't like it either and they WERE LED BY A PRIMARCH, but they are still codex compliant. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you don't follow it. Amit did EXACTLY what he was told to do, because HE WAS LOYAL. To say anything else is spitting on the character of the son's of Sanguinius.

 

The Flesh Tearers have ONLY RECENTLY diverged significantly from the codex, and that was under the orders of Seth, who did so to PROVE he was loyal and keep fighting despite not having much of a chapter left. It wasn't a long historical tradition.

[Firepower]

That's a lot of caps lock.

 

But you are correct.  With a few very small exceptions like the Death Company, Blood Angels are codex compliant in organization.  The same can be said for their successors, but there are always exceptions to the rule.  As far as canon chapters go, they are all codex compliant (barring whatever new fluff apparently changed the Flesh Tearers).

[Frater Antodeniel]

 

Ok, first of all, why is it nonsense that the Blood Angels are codex compliant? They have ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS been codex compliant, with VERY few exceptions.

 

Second, they are NOT like the wolves when it comes to codex compliance, and saying so is COMPLETELY against the ENTIRE character of the chapter. 

 

Also, them being codex compliant and not being codex compliant has NOTHING to do with legion iconography. Someone has already pointed out the examples with the Fists and the Crimson fists.

 

And the Flesh Tearers are also codex compliant, they just have suffered so many losses that they CANNOT continue to be to the level of the Blood Angels.

 

NO. The Imperial Fists didn't like it either and they WERE LED BY A PRIMARCH, but they are still codex compliant. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you don't follow it. Amit did EXACTLY what he was told to do, because HE WAS LOYAL. To say anything else is spitting on the character of the son's of Sanguinius.

 

 

The Flesh Tearers have ONLY RECENTLY diverged significantly from the codex, and that was under the orders of Seth, who did so to PROVE he was loyal and keep fighting despite not having much of a chapter left. It wasn't a long historical tradition.

 

 

Ok, that's your point of view. Mine is different.

 

But, just about the Flesh Tearers....If you expect that Amit, the man who openly said to his primarch that Horus was a traitor before the Signus Campaign, and who put his life in the deal just by saying this and who didn't step back his word....If you expect of the man who was ready to argue openly with the Emperor about the Nikaea Decree during the Council of Nikaea....If you expect that a Blood Angels Captain who had what it take to directly/bluntly argue with Primarchs and Emperor about such sensible things.....then how could you expect of such person to act as a lap dog and to blindly follow the codex astartes^^. Have some logic...The Flesh Tearers may learn the Codex, following its teaching, but, like the Wolves, they are not tied to the codex. The Codex form a basic around which the Flesh Tearers is build but they are not emprisoned by its teaching like many other chapters....

[Firepower]

Kinda flying off topic here aren't we? The original point of the thread was about justifying model aesthetics.

[Arkangilos]

The moral of the story is that green stuff for the shoulder pads, and winged blood drops and what not on the other part of the models would be ok, because it would be an homage to the father.

 

And Frater, telling me to use logic, like actual fluff and facts like I did as opposed to your interpretation?

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Kinda flying off topic here aren't we? The original point of the thread was about justifying model aesthetics.

You and i both know how strongly people can feel about things online lol

Back on topic though. Do post some pics when models are being built!

[ChapelXIII]

I guess in the grand scheme of things you would expect maybe some iconography from a parent chapter as long as the successor had a good relationship with the parent chapter. Also, I think you would have some hand me down armor or passed down armor that would bear some of the iconography as well. 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I guess in the grand scheme of things you would expect maybe some iconography from a parent chapter as long as the successor had a good relationship with the parent chapter. Also, I think you would have some hand me down armor or passed down armor that would bear some of the iconography as well. 

Helbrecht gave the Celestial Lions Chapter Master a suit of Heresy Era Imperial Fist Artificer Armor. So It makes perfect sense.

[Midnightmare]

I just use them sparingly; just enough to nod to the original parent Chapter but not over do it. It does leave me with a lot of spare winged blood drops though......

 

I like your Chaper Symbol btw Firepower