Questions and Thoughts on The Rock

[xNH Lion 12x]

So, I know some, but there are some things that confuse me, that I think I know, but can't remember if I am making some things up or what, and I just have some questions.

I know the basics of what The Rock is, it's the remnants of Caliban after it was destroyed during the Warp storm after Luther and the Lion fought and that it was outfitted with Warp engines, and more has been dug into the asteroid so it could be large enough for the entire Chapter. I know it has a lot of secrets, of which the list will never be completed, I'm sure, but a more complete list of the known secrets would be great. I know that Luther is somewhere in the Rock and that the Fallen are taken there to be interrogated and held while they are waiting for that to happen. I know the Lion is also way in the depths. I know that there are lots of special chambers that the other Fortress-Monasteries don't have, like the Well of Secrets, which I believe is for the testing of potential Librarians, the Hall of Secrets, which is for the testing of potential Int-Chaps, and finally the Chamber of Judgement, which is for the testing of Deathwing candidates. Are there any other cool, hidden recesses and are the ones I listed correct in their names and usage? What other sort of secrets do we know are hidden, and what sort os secrets, be them long-lost relics, or another ceremony held in a special room might be hidden that we don't know about?

What exactly is the Rock, like what parts of the original fortress are left and which parts were destroyed? How big was the original fortress? What does it actually look like? I have seen the models that some person has made and the one picture of it on the Wiki, but how official is that? I also think that that is a picture of it while it is coming out of the Warp, so I don't think that is the whole fortress anyway.

 

I think the Watchers in the Dark and the writers have a lot more to tell us that will be very cook to see, maybe something just as cool as the Lion still being alive. I'm sure they must. Secrets are what keeps the readers reading the new books.

[aura_enchanted]

there are numerous sub-passages and tunnels to small for normal men to enter these are the passages that watchers use to traverse the rock and it is here they meet in secret. its entirely possible they have whole rooms to themselves we dont ever get to see

 

there is of course the wardens in white the last line of defense should someone assault the rock to seek out luther. these agents of the deathwing are two of the only actual venerable sarcophagus bound brethern gifted with holy relic dread suits such as a leviathan or a contempor or deredeo or just a really battle tested suit of venerable plate. only one of these is ever away from the rock at one time and they unlike their brothers are always activated as a result of the duty of their posts. they can be taken to war but as stated only one is ever away during any given point of time.

 

there is also no end to the amount of relic vehicles weapons and plate in cold storage aboard the rock, either mothballed due to serviceability or practicality or because they are to special to be used for just any occasion, likely only to emerge in times of greatest need.

 

there is of course our crypt which is a true oddity when you dwell on it, no other chapter has a crypt aboard their own battlestation or warships. even the imperial fists bury their dead on solid ground, ours remain aboard the rock.

 

as for how big it is? the rock is pretty gargantuan as its not just a floating fortress it has an entire mountain of rock underneath it. its probably the size of a mountain if not double that size, i can only think of the novamarines perhaps having a larger installation (mainly because their monastery is in a constant state of expansion covering an entire mountain range).

[xNH Lion 12x]

What crypt, of what sorts? Does it have a name, or...?

 

And I knew about the Wardens in White. They must have been some legends when they were in power armor. I don't have my Codex on me, so I forget if we know their names or not. Do we? And do you think one could ever be killed? I don't think they would see much battle, and even when they do, I bet the just murder everything.

[Bryan Blaire]

[T]hese agents of the deathwing are two of the only actual venerable sarcophagus bound brethern gifted with holy relic dread suits such as a leviathan or a contempor or deredeo or just a really battle tested suit of venerable plate.

Where is that sourced from? I've never seen that particular fact before. Page and book source?

 

NH Lion, of course they could be killed. Anything can be killed, it's just do you bother trading enough resources to do it. You also have to have opportunity, which you won't have much of with the Wardens in White.

[xNH Lion 12x]

 

[T]hese agents of the deathwing are two of the only actual venerable sarcophagus bound brethern gifted with holy relic dread suits such as a leviathan or a contempor or deredeo or just a really battle tested suit of venerable plate.

Where is that sourced from? I've never seen that particular fact before. Page and book source?

 

NH Lion, of course they could be killed. Anything can be killed, it's just do you bother trading enough resources to do it. You also have to have opportunity, which you won't have much of with the Wardens in White.

Yeah, sure, a DA fluff writer would let them be killed. Haha. Sure, it is possible for them to die, but I don't think they would be killed, at least not the second time, not likely. And that must mean that they are ancient, ancient, ancient 'cause they are the eldest Dreadnoughts the Chapter has to offer, right? And Dreads are ancient to begin with, by definition.

 

My questions about them aside, back to the topic? Haha.

[Bryan Blaire]

Well, in the current DA fluff, we actually have a good example of a young Deathwing Dreadnought. Check out the Legacy of Caliban series. Dreads definitely don't have to be "ancient" by definition and they certainly aren't dead when they are interred in the sarcophagi.

 

The Lion being alive hasn't ever really been a secret from the readers, it's just an in-universe one. We've known that since Second Edition.

 

No, the names of the Wardens in White haven't been revealed as of yet.

[xNH Lion 12x]

Well, in the current DA fluff, we actually have a good example of a young Deathwing Dreadnought. Check out the Legacy of Caliban series. Dreads definitely don't have to be "ancient" by definition and they certainly aren't dead when they are interred in the sarcophagi.

 

The Lion being alive hasn't ever really been a secret from the readers, it's just an in-universe one. We've known that since Second Edition.

 

No, the names of the Wardens in White haven't been revealed as of yet.

...Yeah; ...yeah; disappointing.... And what books are in the Legacy of Caliban series? Pre- or Post-Heresy?

[Bryan Blaire]

Post-Heresy, most recent DA fluff. Titles are Ravenwing, Master of Sanctity, Unforgiven. They give an interesting look at the internal politics of the Dark Angels, their connections with Successor Unforgiven, and the Rock along with the Watchers in the Dark.

[Lostrael]

So you are looking for forbidden knowledge...

The Fortress of Aldurukh (=Rock of Eternity) was build on a mountain by the same name. 

 

In 200th year of the Emperor's  Great Crusade the catacombs housed a huge library. Its eight high walls were filled with books of occult lore the Order had brought from the Fortress of the Knights of Lupus. (HH Fallen Angels chapter 18))

 

If it was not destroyed during the ages these books might still be down there.  

[aura_enchanted]

 

[T]hese agents of the deathwing are two of the only actual venerable sarcophagus bound brethern gifted with holy relic dread suits such as a leviathan or a contempor or deredeo or just a really battle tested suit of venerable plate.

Where is that sourced from? I've never seen that particular fact before. Page and book source?

 

NH Lion, of course they could be killed. Anything can be killed, it's just do you bother trading enough resources to do it. You also have to have opportunity, which you won't have much of with the Wardens in White.

 

 

they are some of our oldest and most venerated brothers still breathing. their not in mk IV dreadnought sarcophagi unless it was by choice

[Bryan Blaire]

[T]hey are some of [the] oldest and most venerated brothers still breathing. [They're] not in mk IV dreadnought sarcophagi unless it was by choice[.]

Ah, okay, that was your addition then. You said it very factually, so I thought maybe it came out of one of the more recent FW books or something, I thought that would have been cool of them to have included. I was wondering if the Unforgiven had their own official version of a Bjorn from the Space Wolves (who coincidently actually is in a Mk4 sarcophagus even though he fought alongside Leman Russ) included somewhere.

[aura_enchanted]

 

[T]hey are some of [the] oldest and most venerated brothers still breathing. [They're] not in mk IV dreadnought sarcophagi unless it was by choice[.]

Ah, okay, that was your addition then. You said it very factually, so I thought maybe it came out of one of the more recent FW books or something, I thought that would have been cool of them to have included. I was wondering if the Unforgiven had their own official version of a Bjorn from the Space Wolves (who coincidently actually is in a Mk4 sarcophagus even though he fought alongside Leman Russ) included somewhere.

yes well bjorn is so old that they have probably had to move him over the years because his suits were beyond repair. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point he was in another suit or even been in multiple

[Bryan Blaire]

I think that you and I have different ideas on how Dreads work, aura. I've always been of the impression that once they install you in a sarcophagus, you're in that one to stay until you are destroyed. There's no "moving you to a new one" because the suit was beyond repair. In that instance, they simply remove the sarcophagus and place it in a new body of the same style. Whether the sarcophagus of any of the Dreads is interchangeable is potentially up for debate, I don't recall official discussion of that particular topic.

[Harleqvin]

Wardens in White are just the Two oldest Deathwing members that are in Dreadnought Sarcophagi Walkers.

They slowly churn out more stuff.

Pretty sure the old Library of books is still there. As i don't believe they said in any of the stories yet said it had been destroyed. Just that the top of the Tower of Angels is in ruins. But they have made no attempts to fix it. .

Check out, Horus Heresy Books: Descent of Angels & Fallen Angels. There are also other books dealing with DA in HH. Like the Primarchs, Savage Weapons, and the like.. Someone above said the Legacy o0f Caliban 3 book series names.

The Rock is a a mountainous Meteor essentially. Think of it like a roving moon. It's larger than the heaviest class of starships. They carved out enough room in it to accommodate a whole legion.

Read the books that people have mentioned. You got a good start on things. Also, read all the codices from 2nd ed up. Not too much info beyond what's been told already from in there. But check the books we have mentioned. Although, I am sure there might be some old edition info in some of the really old WD issues. I have picked up a few just for tidbits on Ravenwing and Ironwing. Which wasn't much. lqtm. mostly info about how many units were used for Ironwing in epic games.




AS per the above talks with Dread Sarcophs. I believe they can be put into different models (but most of the old better models are already used, and it's super slow to make new ones. IA stuff with Contemptors) It's just they usually kept them in the same ones as they usually just fixed up any broken parts of the Dread as long as the dread itself was still functional. But that is off topic.

[xNH Lion 12x]

So you are looking for forbidden knowledge...

The Fortress of Aldurukh (=Rock of Eternity) was build on a mountain by the same name.

 

In 200th year of the Emperor's Great Crusade the catacombs housed a huge library. Its eight high walls were filled with books of occult lore the Order had brought from the Fortress of the Knights of Lupus. (HH Fallen Angels chapter 18))

 

If it was not destroyed during the ages these books might still be down there.

How large of a library would you guess that to be?

And would these catacombs be the same as the aforementioned crypts by a different name?

[Lostrael]

You can read that in detail in HH-Fallen Angels.

The room was ca. 30 paces (~23 meter) in diameter with a vaulted ceiling 50 meter overhead. The shelves were packed with books. 

As I said, this room may be gone or what's left of its content distributed between the other hidden libraries of the Rock.

 

It was deep down in the rock, perhaps 1000 meter below the surface, at the end of mind wrecking labyrinth of tunnels.

I'm sure some must still exist but are inaccessible by conventional means.

[aura_enchanted]

 

You can read that in detail in HH-Fallen Angels.

The room was ca. 30 paces (~23 meter) in diameter with a vaulted ceiling 50 meter overhead. The shelves were packed with books. 

As I said, this room may be gone or what's left of its content distributed between the other hidden libraries of the Rock.

 

It was deep down in the rock, perhaps 1000 meter below the surface, at the end of mind wrecking labyrinth of tunnels.

I'm sure some must still exist but are inaccessible by conventional means.

 

i wouldnt be surprised if they moved the library such as to the fortress monastery of the guardians of the covenant. i mean they have a thing for writing lots of books and reading till their eyes fall out. it at least makes sense to me that they posess part of the collection. their monastery is massive btw. its a massive cathedral style fortress whos awe inspiring peaks poke into the clouds

[xNH Lion 12x]

 

 

 

You can read that in detail in HH-Fallen Angels.

The room was ca. 30 paces (~23 meter) in diameter with a vaulted ceiling 50 meter overhead. The shelves were packed with books.

As I said, this room may be gone or what's left of its content distributed between the other hidden libraries of the Rock.

 

It was deep down in the rock, perhaps 1000 meter below the surface, at the end of mind wrecking labyrinth of tunnels.

I'm sure some must still exist but are inaccessible by conventional means.

 

i wouldnt be surprised if they moved the library such as to the fortress monastery of the guardians of the covenant. i mean they have a thing for writing lots of books and reading till their eyes fall out. it at least makes sense to me that they posess part of the collection. their monastery is massive btw. its a massive cathedral style fortress whos awe inspiring peaks poke into the clouds

I doubt the Dark Angels would hand over their whole library, even to a Successor Chapter, and especially not one that I think would weird out the Dark Angels proper. Maybe they gave part of their collection over. Maybe. But I imagine that the Supreme Grand Master would want to keep his secrets close to home and well gaurded, and I think it would he only natural for him to think he would keep them the safest. And it's not like the Dark Angels Chapter doesn't have Librarians who would read the old tomes and such, so they would still be used if they were to be used by anyone.

[Lostrael]

A pile of occult forbidden and dangerous books. There was a reason why the Lion did not share this treasure. 

The Dark Angels did not know about Calibans taint. 

 

I wound not trust anybody to keep this knowledge. 

[xNH Lion 12x]

A pile of occult forbidden and dangerous books. There was a reason why the Lion did not share this treasure.

The Dark Angels did not know about Calibans taint.

 

I wound not trust anybody to keep this knowledge.

Yeah, it's got to be at home if it still exists. Like we have said, the Rock is huge. It's built for a Legion and only holds a Chapter now. It can hold a few more books.

[xNH Lion 12x]

So, if we're done with the other thing, this is really bothering me. The Rock's Wiki page has the picture shown below, saying it is of Dark Angels upon the Rock. The Wiki has said that the barracks are on either side of the menhirs at the foot of the road. Does that mean that the structure above and slightly to the left of the Chaplain's head is the barracks? That would make sense, because it looks like it is attached to the tower right behind the Chaplain, but it also looks like it is floating. And because it looks to be floating, it makes me think of a ship like one of the others even farther into the background. Is this just a lazy artist that attached a ship to a building, one that made the barracks floating, or am I missing something, either in the picture or some other piece of information entirely?

 

Image:

http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Dark-Angels-Art.jpghttp://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Dark-Angels-Art.jpg

[Bryan Blaire]

Artistic license has often been taken with images, I'm not sure I'd assume that any of the artwork is a faithful rendering of exactly where things are said to be placed. Artistic license is taken in the BL books themselves, what may be the location of the barracks in your writing is not necessarily the place of the barracks in my writing or even the official fluff, and yet they all work as far as GW is concerned because they are perfectly fine with a "loose canon" situation.

 

I believe what you are looking at above and to the left of the Chaplain is a ship though, not actually part of the Rock.

[xNH Lion 12x]

Artistic license has often been taken with images, I'm not sure I'd assume that any of the artwork is a faithful rendering of exactly where things are said to be placed. Artistic license is taken in the BL books themselves, what may be the location of the barracks in your writing is not necessarily the place of the barracks in my writing or even the official fluff, and yet they all work as far as GW is concerned because they are perfectly fine with a "loose canon" situation.

 

I believe what you are looking at above and to the left of the Chaplain is a ship though, not actually part of the Rock.

Sure, the artistic freedom makes sense, but it still doesn't make sense that a ship would be flying that close to a standing structure, even if it was doing some sort of dropping off or loading. It looks like it is, in fact, attached. It's too big.

And either way, aren't the barracks supposed to be there anyway? Or was I incorrect of my interpretation of the text that I read?

[Bryan Blaire]

You're talking about a giant mini-moon flying through space under engine power and also entering the Warp... What part about this all makes sense in the first place?

 

I would assume that the perspective of that image is slightly off and the ship is actually farther out, but it's a massive ship, hence filling up more of the space you are viewing.

 

If you want the barracks to be there, then that's where they should be. You clearly have an image in your mind, I would go with it.

[Harleqvin]

Well a lot of the giant machine vehicles, look like buildings. Take the look of a lot of the larger titans.
It's quite possible that this is just them exiting a ship that has landed somewhere, with other ships landing/leaving around them. Official? Probably not. Likely that's what the artist did? Yeah. lol.