Questions and Thoughts on The Rock

[xNH Lion 12x]

It makes sense in the context of what we know about the universe. It's not really the same as our universe at all, definitely not the one that we think we understand now.

 

I can see where you get your second point.

 

Again, and I am probably too stubborn with this and my image is probably a little too set in my mind since I am asking for opinions on this and all, but isn't that where the barracks should be? I'll accept that that is supposed to be a ship even of the artist did do a poor job of representing it and placing it in the piece. But where do the barracks go? Does the "foot of the road" mean they are all the way down the path, them there along with the menhirs that are apparently suppose to be between them, not right by the entrance to the fortress or attached, making them destroyed in the destruction of Caliban since they would be too far away from the actual fortress to still be attached? If the menhirs have been mentioned as being touched and whatnot in a book somewhere after the destruction of Caliban, that would either help to clear this up a lot or make it more confusing, depending on what I decide to make of it. Hahaha.

 

Harleqvin: Maybe that is what (s)he did. But I don't think I like this artist. And I think I have a lot more to gripe about that is in that piece, but I will refrain. Haha.

[Harleqvin]

I'm most inclined to believe this is a drop on a planet. I don't think the DA have actually had battles on The Rock. At least not shown at the time of that Codex printing. lqtm.

It's neat art. Not amazing or great. Neat. lqtm. And as said a lot of big vessels and such in 40k look like the buildings of 40k. lol.

 

I almost want to get a bunch of GW buildings and build one of those vessels. Go to a gaming place to play and be like anyone wanna play a pick up game? And then ask them to help me pick up the :cuss ship to bring in. lol

 

That could actually be a table...... No. No. Bad Harleqvin. Bad. You've enough conversions and projects to do.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Harleqvin hit the nail in the head, the picture is supposed to represent a planetary drop... If you take a close look you see that the all look like Gothic buildings with landing thrusters, so it's some kind of structure that exists only in the books... It's probably campaign barracks, supply, forges, apothecarion landing for a massive planetary conquest or final siege.

[xNH Lion 12x]

Haleqvin: There have been battles on the Rock. But they were before it was the Rock. Right before it and the destruction of Caliban. When they fought the Fallen on Caliban? Doesn't hat not count?

 

Lucifer: Huh? Maybe I'm just tired, but...

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Haleqvin: There have been battles on the Rock. But they were before it was the Rock. Right before it and the destruction of Caliban. When they fought the Fallen on Caliban? Doesn't hat not count?

 

Lucifer: Huh? Maybe I'm just tired, but...

 

Battles on the Rock and Battles on Caliban are two very different things. But still they only happened once, each.. ;)

Anyway, check good the cover art and you can see that it's actually some kind of landers that DA are well.. landing. The main one It's not a tower , but a gothic embelished lander, like the ones descending from above and the sides.

[xNH Lion 12x]

 

 

Haleqvin: There have been battles on the Rock. But they were before it was the Rock. Right before it and the destruction of Caliban. When they fought the Fallen on Caliban? Doesn't hat not count?

 

Lucifer: Huh? Maybe I'm just tired, but...

Battles on the Rock and Battles on Caliban are two very different things. But still they only happened once, each.. ;)

Anyway, check good the cover art and you can see that it's actually some kind of landers that DA are well.. landing. The main one It's not a tower , but a gothic embelished lander, like the ones descending from above and the sides.

So, that thing behind the Chaplain isn't part of the Fortress-Monastery at all?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

The scaling looks wrong to be the DA Fortress monastery, should be much, much bigger than that. It can be a DA monastery in a recruiting world but doesn't look like it's Aldurukh. I expect DA Fortress to be at least twice the size.

[xNH Lion 12x]

Maybe it's really far away? There are a lot of Astartes marching towards us behind the group fighting in the foreground.

Or maybe the artist wasn't concerned about how big (s)he was making arguably the most important thing involving the Dark Angels? Or something else?

Now I'm just blabbering hypotheticals here, but...

[Chaplain Lucifer]

It's not that far away. Check the marine at the door in the background. If the marine is 2,5m tall, means the structure should be at around 40 meters max because we can see most of it and it's around 25m in height, give or take. Plus it has an unimpressive array of weapons, and the rock should have ramparts bristling with cannons.

I can say with 100% sure that it's not The Rock, but given all those details, with the landing structures coming down and the lack of "impressive" for a Fortress Monastery, leads me to believe we are actually seeing a planetary landing instead of the DA deploying on The Rock itself.

[xNH Lion 12x]

That's fair. Then I am back to asking if anyone can say where the barracks of the Rock are supposed to be. So, unattached, beside the road, surrounding the menhirs, attached, surrounding the menhirs, something else entirely, or do we not know?

[Bryan Blaire]

NH Lion, they aren't as specific in the writings as you are asking it to be. It sounds like you have just as much information as any of the rest of us regarding this. Anyone telling you something like "They are set back 15 meters from the first menhir on the left, which itself is 3 meters in diameter, standing 10 meters in height and set back 2 meters from the road" and "the barracks measured 200 meters by 100 meters" is probably not telling you the full truth, or they are telling you a truth from only a single writing, and that writing's narrator may or may not be entirely reliable.

 

The specific information itself is mutable, you'll find that only basic facts are truly set in stone. Using your own imagination and creativity to make something is half the fun of this hobby. Even if your own writing is later overwritten by GW/BL/FW, it doesn't matter, and it is totally up to you whether you want to carry on with what you have created, alter it some to be more in line with the new information, or completely toss your portion to conform to someone else's work.

[xNH Lion 12x]

NH Lion, they aren't as specific in the writings as you are asking it to be. It sounds like you have just as much information as any of the rest of us regarding this. Anyone telling you something like "They are set back 15 meters from the first menhir on the left, which itself is 3 meters in diameter, standing 10 meters in height and set back 2 meters from the road" and "the barracks measured 200 meters by 100 meters" is probably not telling you the full truth, or they are telling you a truth from only a single writing, and that writing's narrator may or may not be entirely reliable.

 

The specific information itself is mutable, you'll find that only basic facts are truly set in stone. Using your own imagination and creativity to make something is half the fun of this hobby. Even if your own writing is later overwritten by GW/BL/FW, it doesn't matter, and it is totally up to you whether you want to carry on with what you have created, alter it some to be more in line with the new information, or completely toss your portion to conform to someone else's work.

And unfortunately, that's probably the best I am going to get.... Incomplete stories are horrible. Screw creating my own story. I want to enjoy all of one that someone else has created. Haha.

 

I guess I am designing my own Tower of Angels....

 

Thanks for all of the answers, vague as they may be! Haha.

[Bryan Blaire]

Horrible to some, perfect to others. If you want complete lore, then the 30K/40K settings aren't for you. They haven't been complete or concrete for almost 30 years, they are unlikely to start being so now... ;)

[Harleqvin]

I don't count the battles before the destruction of Caliban, nor the battle at Caliban when the destruction took place. I was meaning just <say in your best Sean Connery voice> "The Rock"

I don't recall if there have been any, and I don't have the Legacy of Caliban books to know if battles commenced on "The Rock" in those books

 

I wouldn't believe that the 4th/5th ed book cover was on The Rock.

 

If trying to make a board/terrain of the Main Fortress. Most of the info for that main Fortress would probably be in Fallen Angels and Descent of Angels.
Honestly, if meaning on the Rock, I'd probably say that most of the barracks are in The Rock and not on the surface.

 

[Harleqvin]

The Horus Heresy is becoming more concrete with each BL book that is coming out. How much 40k era is somewhat but they do go back and forth with stuff. Like The stuff from a few editions ago about the Third war for Armageddon has been redone and i think Eye of Terror info has been redone.

GW said in the past they wouldn't do certai things and they are now doing them. Horus Heresy books being set info they said they wouldn't do. They said they wouldn't do Primarchs.
We now have HH set stories and they are selling out the wazoo.
Primarch models are being made FW division of GW.
My predictions are:
I am figuring they will jump the story to bring about the end of 40k era in several years. After they have finished the Primarch models, they will make it so the Primarchs have rules for 40k.

 

Edit - My bad. That was really off topic.

[xNH Lion 12x]

The Horus Heresy is becoming more concrete with each BL book that is coming out. How much 40k era is somewhat but they do go back and forth with stuff. Like The stuff from a few editions ago about the Third war for Armageddon has been redone and i think Eye of Terror info has been redone.

 

GW said in the past they wouldn't do certai things and they are now doing them. Horus Heresy books being set info they said they wouldn't do. They said they wouldn't do Primarchs.

We now have HH set stories and they are selling out the wazoo.

Primarch models are being made FW division of GW.

My predictions are:

I am figuring they will jump the story to bring about the end of 40k era in several years. After they have finished the Primarch models, they will make it so the Primarchs have rules for 40k.

 

Edit - My bad. That was really off topic.

Mentioning models made me think of the model-looking picures I saw of the Rock. Now I gotta go find all of them from somewhere other than the Wiki....

And the piece of artwork that is of it, too....

But it's late and nap time is calling my name! --I'll call upon my search fu powers tomorrow....

[Harleqvin]

You mean the one from the 3rd Ed codex of the Diorama with Azrael?

[Phoebus]

xNH-Lion-12x,

 

You might want to check out the last Codex or two. It's late, so I can't search them out myself right now, but I'm pretty sure they state the actual fortress of Aldurukh on the surface of the Rock is actually abandoned*. This stands in contrast with Angels of Darkness and The Unforgiven, by Gav Thorpe, which implies at least part of the fortress is used (to bring in captured Fallen).

 

* The Dark Angels obviously do make use of its catacombs, and they have certainly engineered extensive fortifications and infrastructure (to include docks for entire vessels) into the Rock.

[xNH Lion 12x]

xNH-Lion-12x,

 

You might want to check out the last Codex or two. It's late, so I can't search them out myself right now, but I'm pretty sure they state the actual fortress of Aldurukh on the surface of the Rock is actually abandoned*. This stands in contrast with Angels of Darkness and The Unforgiven, by Gav Thorpe, which implies at least part of the fortress is used (to bring in captured Fallen).

 

* The Dark Angels obviously do make use of its catacombs, and they have certainly engineered extensive fortifications and infrastructure (to include docks for entire vessels) into the Rock.

Do you mean 6th and 7th ed. or 5th and 6th? I have the 7th edition Dark Angel Codex, but I don't remember it mentioning anything on the Rock.

And would 5th be more or less recent than Angels of Darkness and The Unforgiven?

And either way, but this is just me trying to apply logic where it probably doesn't want to be (lol), wasn't it just the top of the Tower of Angels that was in ruins, the rest being fine? Wouldn't the Dark Angels use the parts that were undestroyed because they had parts of their monastery that they need to use that were or would be in the monastery proper, for example, the Apothecarion, Reclusiam, and Librarius?

[SvenONE]

Reading all of the comments has sort of reminded me how little we know about The Rock.  The intrigue and mystique that a floating rock fortress in space provides is enough to keep us talking for hours.  I'd like to think that it was a decision by GW writers to provide little knowledge of it, but in actuality it's probably done becuase of the logistical issues explaining The Rock.  There are a lot of things that require suspension of disbelief in the grimdark universe, but something as big and obvious as the rock would go beyond the line of comical and ridiculous.

 

Now I'm not a physicist in this era let alone the 41st millennium but there are some things to me that make The Rock a ridiculous notion.

• It's massive, it's supposed to be the main base of operations for the entire legion.  Which means it has to provide space for approximately 1,000 battle brothers alone (though a situation in which the entire legion would be on it at once would probably be really rare given the current climate).  Additionally it would need to provide plenty of space for other Imperial staff, serfs, servitors, Mechanicum representatives, and all of the assets that come with them (Knights, Tanks, Transports).  At least we don't have to worry about storing any Stormravens (hah!).  It's also supposed to be armed to the teeth which means someone has to control all those guns and battle stations, it would also probably have a standing garrison incase of repelling a boarding action (more on this in a second).  It would also probably need space to for the imperial fleet to dock.  And don't forget the catacomb of a prison and the deep hiding place of the Lion.  He can't exactly be just a few staircases down from the surface.
• I doubt any major manufacturing is done there, but I'm sure something is.  They're going to need plenty of bolt shells and missiles before, so those supplies need to come from somewhere.  The air quality would be so poor that everyone would probably need re-breathers or it would need a massive venting system into space.  Speaking of...
• There shouldn't be any atmosphere.  For all intents and purposes The Rock is well, a rock in space, similar to our moon.  So there probably isn't any ecosystem which supports an atmosphere, not to mention because it's effectively a ship, any exterior atmosphere would be problematic.  Needless to say, there probably aren't any outdoor training grounds for the neophytes, at least not without being fully suited up.
• Mobility.  With each codex the galactic map usually shows The Rock in a new location (at least I think 5th-6th it did).  This is one of the biggest things I've struggled with.  We're talking about something that is probably about the size of a moon.  To get it to move through local space would probably take an engine that would be so massive it would be dangerous to operate.  You'd have to assume that a rock would be more dense than whatever advancements the Mechanicum have made in the development of shipbuilding materials.  Not to mention it would probably have a tough time getting too close to any planet because the power required to overcome THAT planet's gravity would be immense.  But to me where things get really complicated is that you have to assume that The Rock is capable of warp travel.  Otherwise it would just be floating so slowly through space that moving it would exceed such a cost benefit ratio that it may as well just stay put and let Imperial Ships come to it.  Based on the situations I've read in plenty of 40K books, the Gellar Field seems to be a rather fickle device, seemingly failing or coming close to failure during Warp Travel.  A Gellar Field large and powerful enough to support The Rock in Warp Travel would be (quite literally) mind blowing as I'm sure the amount of Navigators required to assist would be multiple households.  Given all the risk there already is for Warp Travel with cruisers or battle barges, you'd assume that the 1st Legion would have a standing army to defend it in, what is probably, the likely event that they suffer a Daemonic Incursion while traveling.

These are effectively the same issues I have with Phalanx aside from that fact that Phalanx IS a ship, not something that was converted into a ship.

 

Like I said earlier there are plenty of ridiculous things in the 40K universe, it's whole existence is representative of that.  Despite the long winded post, I like the concept and would love to hear more about life aboard or what the operations of the rock actually are besides being a mobile prison.

[Harleqvin]

It was dug out for a Legion. 1000 marines is a chapter. So yeah, it's stupidly big.

I don't know about what, if any, manufacturing happens on the Rock. Can't say anything about that.

There is a giant uber force field that surrounds the Rock. That would keep out the nasty cold vacuum of space, and likely daemon issues in the warp..

It was fitted with warp engines and such by the Ad Mech so it can travel through space.

[xNH Lion 12x]

We know the Rock has void shields on it because we know there are cracks. Because it has void shields, I am guessing this allows for the Rock to have its own atmosphere as long as the cracks aren't too big to prevent this from happening. But let's say that they aren't.

 

Second, I don't think they need outdoor training facilities. The Rock should have its own and we know the Tower of Angels had to have somewhere for the Knights of the Order to train if we're assuming that some of the old fortress is used. And I bet some of it is, although we don't know anything other than that the top portion is destroyed and has not been rebuilt. It just doesn't make sense that the Chapter wold choose to not use portions of their home that must be perfectlying fine, this going back to what I said about this before.