How much is too much for a Magos/Archmagos prime?

[SydonianDragoon404]

We have a lot of really great options when it comes building our very own Archmagos/Magos Prime, but it's very easy to fall into that trap of spending way too many points on him/her/it. In your guys' experience, how many points is too many? This HQ doesn't exactly come cheap if you go the archmagos route at 130 points just for the guy, and then you still have to spend more points on an Order of the High Techno Arcana, the cheapest being 20 more points. That's 150 points just for one HQ alone with no upgrades and the cheapest order, that's a lot of points to spend on one guy already. 

 

How do you guys get the most use out of your Primes? Do you go the cheap route and get boys over toys? Do you outfit him for close combat, or shooting? Is getting that magical 2+ 3++ really worth it?

 

The expense of some of these options really make me wonder in comparison to the points cost of some of our units. 250 points will get me an Archmagos Prime set up just the way I want to be a monster for shooting and CC, but that also could have bought me a Thanatar! 

 

I guess I should also frame this question in that I'm only just starting to dabble in 30k and I'm used to the 40k environment where "super men" tend to die extremely quickly to weight of fire. Is that as much of an issue in 30k? 

[Terminus]

You can always just take a 75-point Magos Dominus and call it a day, especially if you have a unit of Castellax for him to hide behind.

 

If you're bringing Matrix of Ruin, then you're stuck with a crappy Reductor Magos who pays 30 points to get Sunder and an extra squad of adepts, and for some reason has to pay 3x more for powerfists and 2x more for chainfists.  You need to give him at least something, so you're looking at 150 points with just a conversion beamer.  If you want him to be up in the action, then you're looking at (cyberfamiliar, rad grenades, chainfist/powerfist, graviton imploder) 210 points.

 

Outside of Cybernetica/Reductor, your options will end up costing you roughly the same, except you can usually get more bang for your buck.  My favorite budget option is a Myrmidax Prime because, because the order is only 25 points, and he gets a huge chunk of buffs, most importantly relentless. For example, for 175 points you can take a Myrmidax Prime with a photon thruster and conversion beamer.  Put him with some Reductor Adepts, and now you have three tank hunting wrecking relentless conversion beamers and a photon thruster that snipes on a 5+.  Another 40 points gets you a Myrmidax Prime with thruster/imploder, chainfist/powerfist, rad grenades and cyber familiar. Put him with some Myrmidon Destroyers with graviton imploders, and suddenly they have hatred with all those powerfist attacks against -1T enemies. 

 

And yes, you run into the issue of whether it would have been better just to take three more destroyers (240 points), but you got to bring some kind of HQ, so may as well get something for your points.

 

The costs just spiral exponentially from there though, if you go with an Archmagos. You're doing real well at 240 points, my silly variant is 295.  If they had Eternal Warrior, they might even be worth that, since you can build them to hang with Primarchs except for that pesky instant death thing some of them deliver.  At least there aren't as many force weapons in 30K. 

[MagicHat]

You can always just take a 75-point Magos Dominus and call it a day, especially if you have a unit of Castellax for him to hide behind.

 

If you're bringing Matrix of Ruin, then you're stuck with a crappy Reductor Magos who pays 30 points to get Sunder and an extra squad of adepts, and for some reason has to pay 3x more for powerfists and 2x more for chainfists.  You need to give him at least something, so you're looking at 150 points with just a conversion beamer.  If you want him to be up in the action, then you're looking at (cyberfamiliar, rad grenades, chainfist/powerfist, graviton imploder) 210 points.

 

 

To be fair, he also have +1 WS and BS over a normal magos.

Then there is the Archmagos reductor with his +1 WS and S over the standard Magos, which opens up the rad grenade and WS5 S6 paragon blade/S10 powerfist. With a rad furnace, he can smack down even Castellax on the charge.

[SydonianDragoon404]

I've thought about the Reductor adept Conversion Beamer artillery, but my main problem with sticking a magos in with them is that it makes him T3, majority toughness rules and such...

 

You can build an Archmagos to hang with Primarchs but I think the biggest difference is T7 and 6 wounds as opposed to a max of T6 and 4 wounds. I just don't know if an Archmagos built that much is worth the points, because Primarchs at least buff their entire armies. 

 

Here's what I am thinking-

 

Unless you are building an Archmagos Prime for close combat, taking the actual Archmagos upgrade isn't really worth it. The additional stats are nice yes, but because of how majority toughness rules work you can end up nerfing yourself in the shooting phase if you stick him with a squad of something lower toughness than yourself. However, because of how challenges work in CC, Majority toughness doesn't matter and your T6 Archmagos won't get insta-killed by S10. Meanwhile, for a shooty Magos Prime, you stick him with Thallax or Myrmidons you are actually getting a free buff to T5 against shooting, making your 2 wounds actually matter. I would actually say that if you can field Adsecularis for yourself, Lachrimallus is one of the best Orders of Techno Arcana because of Feel No Pain. 

[MagicHat]

I've thought about the Reductor adept Conversion Beamer artillery, but my main problem with sticking a magos in with them is that it makes him T3, majority toughness rules and such...

 

 

 

The servitors are T5 and there is at least 4 of them. It is not a problem until 2 of them have died.

[Terminus]

As above, you have ablative dudes for the artillery squad that are 5 points each. You only drop to T3 when there is one or no servitors left, and both adepts are still alive.

 

Didn't note the extra WS and S of the Reductor, I guess that explains the premium for melee weapons (except paragon blade that costs the same). Still expensive and probably not as good as Malaghra or Lachrymallus.

 

Then there is Dreykovac, who is a beast.