5 vs 10 man Tacs

[Frater Cornelius]

Outside of MSU Gladius shenanigans there is very little talk about Tacs. I have been wondering, is there any justification of running full units any longer? With BA and SW it is kind of a no-brainer as they get the excellent Heavy Flamer and two Special Weapons respectively. But having to carry around a Heavy Weapon or Salvo Weapon seems awfully redundant. Gone are the days where one extra Heavy Weapon actually made a difference.

 

Or maybe I am wrong and there is still reason to run a full Tac unit. Any thoughts on this one?

[aura_enchanted]

if your running a slower paced army that isnt always moving up or that is fighting behind a screen of some kind the extra slot for a heavy weapon or special weapon (depending on what you would have kept with 5) is worth it. also combat squads means you can turn them into notdevestators.

 

so theres nothing wrong with 10 it just comes down to application, i have used both before with no complaints

[march10k]

6 men with a lascannon and a plasma gun

Oh...wait, that was 3rd edition

/edit/

Ok, fine, I'll answer the question

ten man squads are good for a few things.

When facing hordes, your own model count is pretty important. More five man squads is nice, if they fit in your FOC, but you often don't want the special weapon...it's points-inefficient. What kills more guardsmen, two marines with boltguns, or one marine with a plasma gun? They cost about the same...still, five man squads have the bonus of metering your fire in smaller packets, reducing overkill when that last enemy model is finally removed. So the marginal benefit here is that you can get more models into the same number of FOC slots. That's pretty marginal utility, and it may not be pushing you to ten men, it may be 6-7 man squads.

Break point. Nine marines (and ten) means it takes three casualties to force a test...which is relevant if you're trying to stay at range, as you're more likely to be closer to your own board edge and therefore in danger of running off the board instead of auto-rallying.

Buffs...do you want that chappy or prescience caster boosting five men, or ten?

Die in Place (DiP) Missions. If you need to drop a squad alone and unafraid on an objective away from the fray, a ten man squad cowering in ruins will be pretty tough to root out. Your opponent will either concede that objective or devote far more than 200 points to the destruction of that squad...incidental fire won't get rid of them by game's end. This is most often a tactic you can use if the squad has "infiltrate" and/or if it's clear across the board from a refused flank deployment and claiming an objective that's so far from anything else that clearing the defending unit is sure to be a one-way trip for anything other than eldar jetbikes.

Dark Angels...Lion's Blade...full-BS overwatch. Ten man squads that get a free full-up bonus shooting phase if you charge them...might make you reconsider the charge, and that's got "full of win" stamped all over it. It's not foolproof, just imagine that you declare first with a remnant of three IG men from an infantry squad (a 15 point sacrifice) to decoy that overwatch before charging in with the 50 conscripts...note that this counter requires the availability of an already-gutted judas goat that must be in charge range at the same time as the "real" charge unit, so it's a really situational counter.

COOL POINTS. Nothing says "baller" like dropping 60 tacticals, 20 jumpers, and 20 devastators on the table, all with the same company markings (5th company, Dark Angels, in my case...not that I've yet reached the century mark...I still have 7 jumpers, 10 tacticals, and 6 devs in the paint queue!), preferably with eight free transports (jumpers don't get them unless they drop the packs, which is not a good idea IMHO)

[aura_enchanted]

6 men with a lascannon and a plasma gun

Oh...wait, that was 3rd edition

how i miss my beloved older editions

[SnakeChisler]

I take min squads mostly coz the Rhino is so cheap and your points can be spent o extra stuff

 

Obj- sec is huge in games these days so a single Lions blade where even the Dread and his drop pod have 1St claim is a big deal

[aura_enchanted]

I take min squads mostly coz the Rhino is so cheap and your points can be spent o extra stuff

 

Obj- sec is huge in games these days so a single Lions blade where even the Dread and his drop pod have 1St claim is a big deal

yeah but you can have any unit do that in a CAD with deepstrike if you wanted

[Itsacon]

In a CAD, only Troop choices get ObSec. In a Demi-Company, everything gets it.

[Berzul]

Since you can always split a 10-man squad into two 5-man combat squads, you could always just take 10 and, if need be, divide them into smaller squads.

 

I myself like to run full squads, though. They hold their ground better, and can pose a greater threat. I don't take heavy weapons, though. Just specials. A plasma gun, or a melta gun, depending on what I need the unit to do.

 

Flamers I used to build assault marines, so I have NEVER played flamers in a tactical squad XD

[Frater Cornelius]

Okay, considering that I quite like Plasmas on DA Tacs (what a shocker), the logical addition would be 5 more dudes with a Grav Cannon. That would be 105pts, exactly the same as three bikes with 2 Grav Guns.

 

Hm.

 

Actually, it is not quite clear which one is superior. Bikes offer greater mobility but Tacs have a higher body-count and more firepower. Interesting.

 

How would you ferry that setup to their destination? One turn of unlimited movement with a Pod but at the cost of target saturation turn 1 and being subject to Interceptor? Or in a Rhino for prolonged utility but higher chance of being grounded in your deployment zone?

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

Is anybody running a double demi-company Lion's Blade with full 10-man Tac squads?

[Interrogator Stobz]

I did in a big game (4000 each side), they were fantastic as the longer range of the heavy weapons reach out and touch important baddies until the combat squaded short range half rode up in free Razors to cause mischief.