So why don't Angels of Vengeance all wear red robes?

[Zoatibix]

I've been reading a bit about the Angels of Grimness Vengeance in the last couple of days trying to get some ideas from other folk's plogs.

 

There are some nice AoV models out there - a very cool looking army I think.

 

I assumed at first that all AoV would wear red robes becuase, hey, the chapter symbol wears a red hood.

 

But I've seen that Black Robes are the official colour.  They look very cool, too.

 

Which made me wonder if AoV don't wear red robes because GotC already do and GW wanted to make them look different.  But it transpires that the AoV background doesn't mention robe colours for those outside of the AoV Inner Circle.  

 

The threads I was looking at were from around 2013.  Has there been any more recent background on the AoV's robes?

 

I understand them using the original Legion colours (because black power armour just looks the best)  but it seems odd that they don't all have red robes.  

 

(I assume the Red Hood of the Chapter Symbol is more to help it stand out against the black armour and white wings, to be honest.)

 

Idle curiosity really.  Kind of in the same vein I wondered if one of the reasons for Deathwing having bone-white armour was to make the models stand out better against the Space Hulk tiles (as well as the fluff explanation.)

[Radoslav]

I've been wondering about the same (my army is "kinda" Angels of Vengeance, but I prefer green robes). One possible explanation- and please, older brothers, do correct me if I am wrong: initially a "hood" was an inverted V (and at the same time an A without bar). Only after (I think) 5th edition it became smoothed and turned into a hood. Then one brilliant guy took it as a hint and did his AoV army with red robes, painted splendidly and... well... crowd followed his example. That's my recognition of how things have been

[Grand Master Belial]

Red is also the color that has been used to signify Sergeants. So let's get creative. If not Red Robes, what about Red hoods. This is to signify that the first AoV was a Sergeant. We can do the non-inner circle with red hoods to give them something to make them pop without looking too much like the GotC.

 

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c372/GMBelial/DA%20Minis/IMG_8633.jpg

AoV is second from the Left

 

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c372/GMBelial/DA%20Minis/IMG_8632.jpg

[Bryan Blaire]

For most of the time the Chapter has been depicted in the Codexes, I don't believe there was ever a robe color specifically stated until either 6th or 7th Edition. The 2nd Edition doesn't mention robes for Successors, the fluff for the Successors is basically non-existent in the 3rd Edition 'Dex (definitely no robe mentions there), 4th Edition didn't mention anything robes-wise but had some images (but I don't recall robed AoV), and we didn't have a 'Dex released during 5th.

 

Why black? It could be because the GotC were red, but I doubt that would be a "lore " reason. So far as I've ever seen, there have never been lore reasons given for why the colors are what they are. Honestly, the designers may have forgotten that it was never stated until very recently. They may have also been trying to avoid stomping on creativity or people's previous armies.

 

If you really like the red robes, could always just do a different shade of red from the GotC, or a Chapter descended from the AoV if you feel bound by "official".

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Do the color of robes you like the most. Black armour with black robes takes away the detail... So if you prefer red, go with it.

[Zoatibix]

@Radoslav: I believe you are correct.  From what I recall it did look more like an inverted V than a hood...but maybe it always was a hood just a 'stylized' one.

 

I think both colours of robe look good so when I finally get around to painting my Unforgiven I'll go with whatever I feel looks best.

 

But, as I say, it just struck me as odd that with the Chapter symbol now being defined as a red hood they didn't offically go with red for all of their robes.

 

Thank you for the replies, brothers.

[Bryan Blaire]

I'll look at my Angels of Death Codex again tonight, but if I remember correctly, the AoV icon has never changed.

[Harleqvin]

I'll look at my Angels of Death Codex again tonight, but if I remember correctly, the AoV icon has never changed.

It hasn't by much. It's been a bit rounded by the current codex, but even in the AoD codex it had a flat top to make it like a hood.

Edit - for the big icon they show in the codices. The decal has been the same since then, too.

[Radoslav]

 

4th Edition didn't mention anything robes-wise but had some images

 

I beg to differ. Page 14, "The Unforgiven"

 

"The Angels of Vengeance have retained the black armour of original Dark Angels Legion. Black Terminator amour is worn by the Chapter's 1st Company and the monkish robes of the Inner Circle are also black."

 

That's one of reasons I consider my army successors of AoV- I didn't really enjoyed look of black on black army.

[Bryan Blaire]

Ah, cool, thanks for that correction Radoslav (Edit 1: although that's the 3rd Edition Codex you cited), sorry, I didn't have my Codex right in front of me (I actually didn't remember the descriptions being that far forward of the images - thought the Successors stuff was much farther back in the 4th Edition 'Dex - Edit 2: actually, that's because they aren't, Successor stuff doesn't start until pg 73 in the 4th Edition 'Dex, robes aren't mentioned in the 4th Edition 'Dex at all, it's the 3rd Edition one where they are mentioned).

 

Edit 3: Actually, I was wrong regarding 2nd Edition as well, the blurb that Radoslav posted from the 3rd Edition Codex, pg 14, is actually the same blurb copied from the Codex: Angels of Death on page 33:

"Angels of Vengeance: This Chapter retained the traditional black armor of the original Dark Angels Legion. The First Company wears black Terminator armour and the monkish robes of the Inner Circle are jet-black."

 

What's weird to me is that they specify that the robes of the Inner Circle are black... Does that mean the AoV don't use robes outside the Inner Circle, or that the robes outside the Inner Circle are a different color, or nothing at all, and all AoV robes are black?

 

Edit 4: Since the blurb was from 2nd & 3rd Editions, the quote likely means nothing at all and you have to decide what you want all your robes to be, because in 2nd and 3rd Editions (until later in 3rd when they brought out the metal DA Veterans), only the Inner Circle models even had robes. Robes weren't used on line troops at all.

[Radoslav]

Well- as far as I remember (and- as clearly visible by my choice of codices it is quite ancient times lore so please, be so kind to forgive me my rusty memory) DA used to have robes reserved for highest ranging officials (as mentioned- Inner Circle), thus if you will look at older miniatures, you will find them on old Azrael,Ezekiel...and brother Bethor I believe (which is KINDA line troop one), but you are totally right- not on any "average" battle brothers (or any other minis, for that matter). Of course everything has changed when GW released RELATIVELY cheap plastic robbed minis and much later on- Deathwing Knights (btw- since swords are weapons connected to DA in so many ways, why flails and maces for knights?)

[Zoatibix]

I feel that - intentionally or not - GW have left enough wiggle room the AoV could wear Red Robes with the Inner Circle having the Black Robes, or er...only the IC wearing them.  Yeah...let's just call it wiggle room.

 

Assuming I ever get through my Warmachine painting backlog I think black robes for my Consecrators and red for the AoV 'detachment' of models from DV.

 

Thanks again.

[Grand Master Belial]

Something I did with my Consecrators was to paint the inner lining of the robes Red. Just another idea for the hopper.

 

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c372/GMBelial/DA%20Minis/IMG_8634.jpg

 

EDIT: Added photos to my previous post.