Imperial Guard, What works..?

[Merellin]

Greetings commanders and generals, I come to you seeking advice for my lowly imperial guard force. Basicaly, I decided to try and focus on the armies I own and have playable for a while and the one I struggle with the most is my guard army. So I wanted to know, What works int he codex? What units are best avoided?

 

I like infantry, And i'd rather not use more then 3-4 Leman Russ tanks.. I had a few ideas for how to run my troops and was wondering, What one of these sounds best? Either two platoons with 30 man blobs and 2 units of veterans in chimeras, Or 2 platoons with 50 men split into a 30 man blob and a 20 man blob per platoon, Or two platoons with a 30 man blob and two 10 man squads in chimeras each, Or two platoons with a 50 man blob each, Or three platoons with a 30 man blob each? Then the big blobs would get a commissar each.

[duz_]

Can't go wrong with 2x 30 blob squads w/ at least 2 units of mobile vets.

When I run large blobs like that I like to support them with priests and psykers. An ADL too if you can afford it.

2 wyvrens never go astray either.

 

You'll also want at least one CCS if not two. Although I personally like to take my LR support in the form of pask in punisher with executioner and make the most of his PE WL trait. This frees up your HS slots.

 

What kind of missions do you play

[march10k]

Limiting yourself to 3 russes is totally doable. I would recommend generalist russes, then, not so much the specialists like the eradicator or punisher. I would say the standard russ and the demolisher are the most universally useful. Personally, I never leave home without a pair of demolishers... Your HQ will naturally be a CCS, which should be given a chimera. You might also consider a master of ordnance for a bonus pieplate without taking an additional tank. I prefer veterans for my troops, but I rarely field more than 4 squads of them, all mechanized. That doesn't really put pressure on your points limit, and I really think that taking more than that would give you redundancy without really making you more capable. Obviously, this line of thinking doesn't apply to a horde style army. But if going with mechanized vets (which means 8 superscorers if you dismount the vets in cover with the forward sentries docrtine), you have points to spare after covering the meat and potatoes of your list.

Wyverns are a good choice, but if you took three tanks in heavy support, you'd have to squadron them to make an FOC slot for the wyvern...an alterantive would be a tank commander and wingman. They'd have to maintain unit coherency, but you'd basically be testing against LD9 to split their fire, and it would free two heavy slots... Another non-tank heavy option would be hydras...not really worth considering unless you're facing a flier-heavy meta. The proper artillery pieces in heavy support aren't really worthwhile in comparison with the AV14 "proper tanks" that you can get for a few points more.

Elites...blech...I've been playing IG since 1998, and I own ogryns and snipers, but they're really not worth it. Stormtroopers are okay, I love them actually, but they're super-specialized and not at all points-efficient. I also think they're better when fielded using their own codex (which you could do), since it lets you give the stormtrooper command squad four plasma guns and then have them twinlink themselves for ZOMG 8 twinlinked S7AP2 shots that basically never get hot.

Fast attack is where I'd look to spend remaining points. Multilaser and autocannon armored sentinels are awesome, other people love the plasma cannon ones, and outflanking scout sentinels with multilasers are a nice trick, getting at enemy vehicles' rear armor with ease! The only bad choices are lascannons (which, regretably, I have) and missiles, as far as I'm concerned. Hellhounds would seem to be really really bad, costing as much as a russ, but AV12 and really short ranged. Well, they have AV12 sides, which helps a lot, they're fast, which is often a godsend, and frankly, they outperform their mathhammer analysis. Some of my favorite things to do with them is fry orky bikers and gut those backfield-lurking Tzeentchy warp point batteries, but they also rock at digging infiltrating annoyances out of 2+ cover and parking 1" in front of a crusaderload of assault terminators, setting them off schedule by a full game turn. They're kind of a utility choice, they won't win you any games, but they'll always find some way to help. Then there are vendettas...I don't think I need to talk about those! Less sexy, the valkyrie is worth thinking about, too. The rocket pods make it pretty good at throwing tons of saves at enemy infantry formations, and a flier isn't a bad place to hide your warlord when his loss would cost you the game.

Or...you could take a knight I prefer baneblades, they're more guard-like, but they're also too many points tied up in a single model. Of all of the various fortifications that a CAB gives you, an ADL is attractive for its cheap price, but it's also so common that everyone you face will be drooling at the thought of how easy it will be to murder the 600 guardsmen cowering behind it. I like the skyshield...use it as a firing platform for your ranged shooty vehicles like standard russes and wyverns. The 4++ against shooting and the angle that lets you ignore slightly more intervening cover (I use the elevated position to deny 25% obscuration to enemy vehicles that my vanquishers are vanquishing) is really good value for the points if you put 2-4 vehicles up there.

[Son_of_D0rn]

Personally I like your first option. I play with a 30 man blob squad with autocannons and a commissar and two units of 10 melta vets in Taurox transports and find that it is a great core to a list especially with a CCS nearby to issue the blob orders.

[librisrouge]

The few times that I've fielded a ton of men I've loved it, except for how tiring the game can become (moving 200+ is a workout after two hours). While it struggles with mobility, it compensates for that with numbers of high leadership, or fearless, bodies, meaning you won't be going forward to occupy objectives, you'll already have them and the enemy will have to take you off.

[WarriorFish]

I can only echo what has already been said. Much depends on what you want to achieve with your list. It's possible to go Platoon/blob heavy, or take a Vet force or a mix of both. Three or four Russ tanks is still plenty too, more than enough for most lists. Russes are good tanks, but you need the right one for the job. Wyverns are excellent value and a couple will dominate enemy infantry for you. Infantry wise, numbers is always key but effectiveness depends on many variables that can't be generalised too well.

 

If you can give us some more info on what you have trouble with, or ideas/army types/etc you might like that'd help us give better advice :)

[Merellin]

Well, My guard normaly gets slaughterd and what I face mostly is Chaos Daemons and Chaos Marines. I dont want to be super strong and slaughter my opponent, I just want a more balanced match where the outcome is close and hard to tell untill the end.. What I own so far is

 

2 Vendetta
2 Leman Russ Battlecannon
1 Leman Russ Plasma
4 Chimera (+1 Unbuilt)
1 Hellhound

3 Auto Cannon HWT
2 Missile Launcher HWT
1 Mortar HWT
3 Unbuilt HWT
1 Sentinel (Missing base and weapon)

81 Lasguns
1 Medic
1 Sniper
6 Melta
12 Flamers
2 Plasma
1 Demolition Charge
10 Voxcasters
16 Sergeants
4 Banners
2 Commanders
Yarrick
Creed
Commissar
Nork

 

Normaly I run 2 platoons wth 30 man blobs, plus 2 units of veterans in chimeras, I dont put the heavy weapons teams in the platoons, instead I use them in their own units, Then I bring my two leman russ tanks, Yarrick is often my general with a lord commissar for the other blob.. The Hellhound speeds arround burning enemies, I dont like using the flyers as I dont like flyers..

[WarriorFish]

Ok that helps, what sort of lists do your opponents throw at you - any particular units you have issue with?

 

Against the likes of Marines and those who want to get in close you're not going to be beating them. Instead it might be better to divide and conquer as it doesn't matter how tough and mean something is if it can only kill 10 Guardsman a turn - if that! So I'd not blob, and get plenty of cheap infantry squads around. Even with a humble flamer they can do some damage and at the cost of a few Marines an attrition your opponent will feel ever more as the game goes on. I'd also consider running cheaper HQs, a CCS to dish out orders would be useful here to get the most out of your troops.

 

Hellhounds are cool, but perhaps not against your opponents. If you want some AP3 there take a Banewolf and drink deep of traitor tears. Alternatively your Russ tanks can throw out plenty of hurt, and a good number of troopers to protect them will help them last too.

[Merellin]

For his lists, He normaly brings mostly daemons, Much sumoning, with some chaos marines. Often he mixes gods.. For orders, I normaly only use First Rank fire! Second Rank Fire! and the Platoon Command Squad can give that one, So I'd rather bring a commissar then a CCS, Since atleast the commissar can hide in a blob and not insta die if the enemy sees it.. My two 30 man blobs normaly contain 3 flamers each to discourage charging.

 

I'v been thinking of giving my infantry squad sergeants bolters since they are cheep for extra damage. When I bring my 2 vet squads in chimeras I tend to give them 3 meltas each and carapace armour.

[librisrouge]

If summoning is giving you an issue, consider a Psykana Formation to give you enough dice to play the psychic phase yourself. Also, our good friends with the Inquisition will be glad to loan you a Vindicare assassin or to, with which you can deliver the Emperor's Mercy to psykers before they can complete their fell rituals. Additionally, Wyverns are great for singling out summoners and will pass on enough wounds to make the unit their in suffer as well.

[march10k]

You need a culexus assassin.  There's no other adequate answer.  You aren't being brutalized because of any deficiency in your list or in the IG codex, you're being brutalized by summoning spam.  I've been playing guard since 1998, and I can't win when my opponent is pooping out 2-300 points worth of fresh daemons every turn.  You have to stop the problem at the source.  Stick a culexus in a vendetta and plan your flight path to park that null zone over the worst summoners (there's usually a main one) as often as possible.  Even 1-2 ruined psychic phases will level the playing field, I find that the best guard armies fall a little behind every turn in terms of [original demon army+fresh summonings killed] vs [guard casualties], so you never make any headway as long as the demon cheesemonger is free to keep summoning fresh units every turn.  Interrupt his flow of reinforcements even a little and even temporarily, and you can catch up, catch your breath, and perhaps even win.  Killing the main summoner would be preferable and permanent, but that's often really hard if you don't have a highly mobile melee beatstick...if it's fateweaver, of course, the vendetta(s) are a good counter...but like I said, killing 1-2 summoning phases, especially the one on turn 2, goes a looooong way towards solving the problem of beating a 3000 point army with an 1850 point army.

[WarriorFish]

I agree with march - GK being a regular foe of mine now I just can't see anything else working against the number of dice other armies can throw as we can't compete without hamstringing ourselves. Get in quick and kill the problem away in the most efficient manner possible, it's the only way to be sure you can stop the powers. Fortunately we're a lot better at killing things than we are using witchery ;)

[march10k]

Killing people and breaking things, it's what we do...if it absolutely has to be destroyed overnight, look no further:

In less dire need, you may be able to make do with a demolisher or three...

[greycat]

You can do what my friend did the other day and take a 50 man blob with corteaz and a librarius conclave then bubble wrap all his tanks with his invisible guard wall who can shoot at all incoming deepstrikers or drop podders

[Merellin]

Thanks for all the replies ^_^ I have another question though! What do people prefer in their infantry blobs? A Commissar or a Ministorum Priest?

[WarriorFish]

Priest, sadly. He's far superior with his hymns but that's not to say a commissar is useless of course, just often the lesser choice for what you need.

[duz_]

I can't recall a time I've ever run a regular commissar over a priest.

The only real advantage is going to ground and at that point you're probably already screwed.

Also priest don't kill psykers. ;)

[Merellin]

Then cmes the question, What is a good source of priests for someone who dosent like metal models and is horribad at converting... xD

[nismogrendel]

"dosent like metal models"

Heresy!  :p

 

A lot of people around here used Empire Flagellants for Priests.  The converting work isn't too bad.  I swapped IG weapons into the flagellants, but you could probably get away with Cadian Sergeant / Tank driver arms... maybe Catachan arms?

 

There has gotta be a company with a good 'ready to go' resin model that would work, I'll look around and report back if I find one.

[WarriorFish]

Take a look at Father Boeka in Assault on Lutum - very little conversion work there. A priest can be anything you want, as they came in many shapes and sizes (and more!) in 40k so don't let anything hold you back :D

[march10k]

It used to be commies...the first failed LD test was an execution, after that the commie took command and the squad jumped to LD10...but now...fearless all the way, setting the battle hymns (which are amazing) aside.

[greycat]

Priests definitely. I used those big wizard hats from the empire wizard kit, put them on a cadian body and gave them a cloak. Done.

 

A priest could even be as simple as giving a cadian model a aquila necklace. A priest can be anything you want it to be

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Priest vs Commissar really depends on what you're looking for. Commissars share their leadership with the squad, so that makes them better for guardsmen blobs. The reason to put a Commissar in a guardsmen blob is because of stubborn, the squad can still go to ground, because it's still a very shooting focused unit. A priest is the way to go for a conscript blob, since fearless keeps them locked in combat with whatever you're trying to tie up.

 

Done properly you should be able to prevent the commissar from blamming guardsmen, since you test on the highest leadership, and the squad gains stubborn. It should be rare for you to fail a morale test, let a lone two in a row. Now, you also don't have to use the summary execution rule, you can chose to let the squad run, which isn't necessarily a bad option given that it might make the difference between seeing the unit wiped and actually having them survive to fight another turn.

 

Using senior officer orders can improve your heavy weapons squads, especially if you want to keep those HS slots open for other things like tanks. A mortar squad is not great when compared with a wyvern, but actually works well as a substitute when you want to take other artillery or tanks.

[nismogrendel]

I haven't found any good plastic/resin IG models that would work for a priest... I did throw this together from my bits box.  If you have a Cadian command sprue you should have most of the pieces.  I'm not sure if the holster or chainsword is on that sprue...  picture even comes with a ready to go name.  Instant model and fluff.  Father Bernaid.

 

http://i.imgur.com/pks45lT.jpg

[WarriorFish]

Especially since the gorget can represent the rosarius save he has :)