Has the heresy setting changed?

[Ishagu]

 

 

I don't think he meant it as a poor-vs-rich clubhouse. I think its more that in the past HH gamers tended to be more passionate about the models and fluff than a lot of 40k gamers, and he is worried that the community will lose that passion.

 

Best thing about a gaming community? You can choose who you play with. So if you don't want to fight mr proxy go play someone else.

This really isn't the case. It's not like we all have 7 free evenings a week.

 

Most of us can go to a club maybe once a week, and we might only have the choice of a single opponent or no game. That's certainly my situation.

[jacqualine47]

 

 

I don't think he meant it as a poor-vs-rich clubhouse. I think its more that in the past HH gamers tended to be more passionate about the models and fluff than a lot of 40k gamers, and he is worried that the community will lose that passion.

 

Best thing about a gaming community? You can choose who you play with. So if you don't want to fight mr proxy go play someone else.

This really isn't the case. It's not like we all have 7 free evenings a week.

 

Most of us can go to a club maybe once a week, and we might only have the choice of a single opponent or no game. That's certainly my situation.

 

 

That is very similar to my situation.  And the Mr. Proxy-types outnumber the friendly opponents sometimes.

[Terminus]

These games are not well suited for random pick-up games. I'm sure your local area has some kind of Facebook or Yahoo group or something for 30K and 40K.  Arranged games will probably work out better.  Nothing like driving out to the shop just to find That Guy there and no one else, when I could be home getting drunk.

[GhostMalone]

 

 

 

And also I believe it's the quality of the hobbyists that affect my feelings, here on the B&C we have some amazing hobbyists and we're all like minded but in the real world against real local hobbyists the unpainted Unbased and uneducated rear they're heads and cause me such grief with their lack of passion

 

Sounds to me like base snobbery. The HH community was largely limited to people who could afford to pay FW prices across an entire(large) army or who were so enamoured of the fluff they would devote years to collecting a small force, which isn't many, so a nice little insular clubhouse atmosphere formed that allowed people so inclined to set themselves apart from and above the "riff-raff" who would merely afford normal GW prices and games, and now with the expanded fluff that provides people with more avenues of entry and a reduced cost of entry thanks to BaC and plastic Mechanicus, you have to share the little space you created with all these horrible poors and 40K gamers.

 

Too bad, so sad.

 

Increased access is good and will always be good unless it causes FW to drastically change their attitude towards the game and the background they write, which is hardly likely given they wouldn't do it by choice, and they're not going to be forced given their existing attitudes and methods made the Heresy so successful despite all the barriers to entry that GW-proper promoted the guy in charge and gave him an even bigger semi-autonomous division with access to plastic production and a mandate to revive Specialist Games.

 

I get being disillusioned with BL, I really do, but not being able to enjoy something you like because, without taking anything away from you, many other people can now enjoy it as well? That's just petty.

Right well I'm sorry it came across to you like that but before I lose my :cuss as If you've read all of my responses I never once held myself above everyone I'd like to address a couple of things.

 

I couldn't care less if you think I'm being snobbish my entire issue is the effect lately on the IP of the setting, the way our story hasn't progressed in the bast couple of books and my general feeling towards the direction some things are going, I have no hate or derision or anything for other hobbyists I just don't like people that don't in general know the difference between the adaptus mechanicus and the Mechanicum people that haven't taken the time to research and delve into the lore and have just rolled in going yo I'm playing alphas because I know I can win easier, the fact that you've found fault with my concerns is a joke in my opinion.

 

I've dedicated alot of time money and love to the Horus heresy and I don't want to see any fears I may have play out not for myself but for the community in general, I do have many mates that only just joined me in 30k thanks to BaC due to the price yet I never thought ohh you poor peasant I can not socialist with you.

 

As I've come to realise there hasn't been much progression within the fluff which has started to cause me to start seeing this as a 40k nonsensical bolter porn filled cash grab.

 

I really don't appreciate the way you took the time to find a single part of a post and try to turn it into me being selfish and petty really does :cuss me off considering I've stated over and over these are my opinions and I was wanting too see how the community feels about the setting.

 

Rant over but I'm pretty :cussted off

[Ishagu]

Let's all be friends.

 

The 30k setting has certainly lost some of the magic initially felt during the first few books and the FW's Betrayal.

I do think that in terms of models and rules Forgeworld have always been on point, however.

 

As it's been expanded the Lore has suffered. Me and Legatus, as I'm sure you're all aware, weren't pleased with the portrayal of the Ultramarines lore in Tempest but I was ecstatic with the models and rules to the point that my SoH took a back seat to the Ultras as my 30k priority.

 

Anyways, let me go back to what I said earlier: The magic of the setting has most certainly diminished. The insight into the way the Primarchs think and behave has turned them from Gods into mere men, and petty ones at that.

There's still a lot of good, don't get me wrong - but maybe the setting would be better with more myth and mystery and less numerical data.

[Lord Blackwood]

Dont mind people like that bruh , you made a thought provoking topic that has led to some generally interesting banter  of course someone is gonna jump  up  and spout some nonsense. 

Ive been working on my legion stuff since before B@C  and Ive found it possible to hobby on  a budget quite well. working from the Top of the Force Org Chart down of course.  I mean  all B@C did was allow me to use vet tac squads that have mkIV armor as opposed to my black Templar crusader squad marines.  

The Entry  barrier was largely a self imposed one or one that existed for folks without 40k marine collections 

The idea of snobbery comes sorta outta left field , outside of one or two instances (  Kurama not being among them)  I havent really seen people straight up snobbin on others as filthy 40k casuals tho of course theres the occasional person worrying about powergaming 

BUT IM NOT ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT THAT BECAUSE  MUCH LIKE DEPTHCHARGE IM ALL ABOUT PUTTIN  MULTIPLE KNIGHTS ON THE TABLE ( and a land raider full of Templar brethren and Sigismund )   AND  TELLING MY OPPONENT  " WHAT?  IM FIELDING IMPERIAL FISTS LOOK AT THEM  RIGHT THERE IN THE RAIDER" 


I  think you should just let homeboys comments roll off yer back no sense in getting mad over someones stupidity 

[Ishagu]

I'm only a snob when it comes to painted models and proxies.

 

I want to know my opponent has made SOME efforts at least! :-P

[Lord Blackwood]

Painted vs unpainted is rough for me when Im playing against another adult who I know  has a lot of responsibilities / kids /  or has a health issue  I tend to be like yo its good man dont worry 

When its a kid in highschool or college or someone like me who is unemployed  I  tend to be a little more...violent in my list building and turn their army inside out for the sin of being unpainted 

I hate proxies , I hate them , Outside of creative artistic choices ( Ie  what  I  do with my Fists  making them all templary all the time)  I try very hard to avoid playing with people who have to proxy models.

 

[1000 Sons]

I couldn't care less if you think I'm being snobbish my entire issue is the effect lately on the IP of the setting, the way our story hasn't progressed in the bast couple of books and my general feeling towards the direction some things are going, I have no hate or derision or anything for other hobbyists I just don't like people that don't in general know the difference between the adaptus mechanicus and the Mechanicum people that haven't taken the time to research and delve into the lore and have just rolled in going yo I'm playing alphas because I know I can win easier, the fact that you've found fault with my concerns is a joke in my opinion.

I've dedicated alot of time money and love to the Horus heresy and I don't want to see any fears I may have play out not for myself but for the community in general, I do have many mates that only just joined me in 30k thanks to BaC due to the price yet I never thought ohh you poor peasant I can not socialist with you.

As I've come to realise there hasn't been much progression within the fluff which has started to cause me to start seeing this as a 40k nonsensical bolter porn filled cash grab.

I really don't appreciate the way you took the time to find a single part of a post and try to turn it into me being selfish and petty really does me off considering I've stated over and over these are my opinions and I was wanting too see how the community feels about the setting.

Rant over but I'm pretty :cussted off

I think you might have some early adopter feelings. Early on most people in the HH game strictly built their favourite legions regardless of the rules. So it was a lot of heresy aficionados who knew the fluff and were happy to just get their models on the table. As the HH game got more popular you got more people who just wanted to play the game and roll dice based on the rules of the game. The rules writing for the game had holes and imbalances but the early players just wanted to play their legion so there was never a big number of people playing those legions strictly for the game breaking abilities, now that the game is bigger you have more people playing and those rules issues begin to stick out much more when people are focusing more on the rules and game play then the fluff behind it.

As I've come to realise there hasn't been much progression within the fluff which has started to cause me to start seeing this as a 40k nonsensical bolter porn filled cash grab.

I hate to sound cynical but when did you think that Forge World wasn't a cash grab ? It is basically the same models and books as GW at 3-4 times the price. I can't really believe that the designers, fluff writers, rules writers are paid that much more the the GW side. If 30k wasn't making money they would have canned it before it got to book 3.

[Hesh Kadesh]

I was writing an epic that would make the Iliad look like a bed time story, then I realised "why bother"?

 

Long Story Short, yes, it is. While the Black Library stuff is, we all know that that is not what the OP is on about, and instead the community (both online and in person) being the true point of contention. And yes, it is, and also for the better to get rid of stuffy elitist attitudes such as those expressed in the OP and the OP's profile page the better.

 

While I'm not one to suggest driving away fans of a particular type of game, I struggle to empathise much with those who refuse to adapt and overcome, in favour of their own self-made notations of what they consider to be "true hobbyists", and would much rather play and talk with someone less up their own rectal passageways (not talking about any particular member here, just the general subsect of those who think that they have a say so in my hobby) than those who tend to align themselves with similar opinions to the nth degree, and would happily let the closeted person sat on their own minding their own business or socialising with their own ever diminishing group of what effectively amounts to circle jerkers never having their thoughts and ideas opened to new thoughts or objective criticism just carry on the way they are, until events like this happen.

 

Now, while I do hope that this isn't what happens to the OP or other members, as he's (and they too) not as extreme as the level shown by other members of the community (mainly offline, although I have seen it elsewhere), he's also at the start of the slope that can lead to it. I hope for his and the hobby's sake that he doesn't, and that he just learns to chill out. Go for a walk, punch a wall, kick some flowers, or whatever other macho nonsense that leads to the release of serotonin, but don't take it out on others as a result of your own self imposed limitations. 

[Lord Blackwood]

@1ksons#gonzofaceofdestiny
Playing the game and not wanting to lose is different than playing the game specifically for the rules.  I  dont think  its fair to lump  folks who play the game with the desire to achieve glorious victory  in the same boat with people who disregard the fluff. You can be a lore hound and extremely competitive  I know this because that is how I am. 

Though that is a topic for another time  ( one id love to discuss if you would like ! )  
--------------------
Snobbery / Winning at all costs /  Fluff vs Rules aren't really the real purpose of the thread though  I dont think. 

As far as I understand it before we were derailed it was about the setting. How the opening poster felt the setting itself is being dilluted and is stagnating there have been some great opinions expressed on both sides as to those that feel this is the case and those that dont. I think we should move the topic more in that direction  than continue the whole other point raised by one man who misinterpreted kuramas feelings. 

With a new book on the way and a HH weekender approaching I  think  were going to get not just a lot more answers but have a lot of our fears put to rest , I  know I am going to be glued to Battle Bunnies for the information that will somewhat adress this topic along with others. 


Edit: 
Oh man Kurama yer little blurb in yer profile is really damning @ n @  Thats not a very good attitude to have bro  its likely why people make assumptions of your intentions when you make what is actually a good post. If they read that of course they are gonna think you are coming from a place of hate. 

[Flint13]

++ Take a breather.++