Grim Dog Studios Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I struggle really hard to build lists but thought I'd have another go at an ultras list for myself. I already have the dread and all the infantry and their transports (Tacs + Rhinos, Vets + Rhino, Praetor/Command Squad + Raider), so its the sicarans that are filling out the rest of the list. It's a bit of a boring/bland list, and I'm not too sure how it would do when played as I don't play often, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Willing to change stuff out of course per your suggestions! + HQ (355pts) + Legion Praetor (355pts) [Artificer Armour, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Paragon Blade] Legion Command Squad [4x Legion Space Marine Chosen, 5x Power Weapon] + Troops (420pts) + Legion Tactical Squad (210pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Combi-Weapon, Melta Bombs] Legion Tactical Squad (210pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Combi-Weapon, Melta Bombs] + Elites (560pts) + Apothecarion Detachment (65pts) Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Power Sword] Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (200pts) Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Extra Armour, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon] Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (295pts) [2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Sniper] Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Weapon] + Heavy Support (660pts) + Legion Land Raider Battle Squadron (270pts) Land Raider Phobos [Armoured Ceramite] Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (195pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Lascannons] Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (195pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Lascannons] Thank you for looking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I like this list. You have some hard hitting tanks, and plenty of infantry. I'll say to you, what I say to everyone who splashes on a Praetor and a command squad like those you've outlined: Why not take the Primarch instead? Roboute Guilliman will trump most enemies in cc and will even put the hurt on Horus in a fight. Legion Veteran Tactical Squads can be a lot of fun and the one you've included can pull some weight if your dice are hot, but it's also entirely possible that in a game it won't really kill much more than a regular Tac Squad - especially if you're able to get Fury of the Legion off a few times... So, perhaps drop the Praetor, the Command Squad and the Vets. I'd throw Guilliman in there, alongside some Invectarus Suzerains, and have them ride around in the Landraider. Drop the Apothecary and instead replace him with a Chaplain consul to act as your HQ. By including the Primarch, those Sicarans just got a whole lot better at hunting other tanks! The Ultras have been blessed with a great Primarch and a truly superb unique unit in the Suzerains. They're also great because they don't require a Spartan to transport - a regular Raider is enough. Utimately, to really round things off, you could exchange the Contemptor for a Deredeo to add additional ranged firepower and effective AA, but that's only necessary if there's aerial threats in your meta. Lastly, for the Tacs, maybe a Power Fist instead of Combi Weapons on the Sgts? It's a cost effective option alongside Artifacer armour and that way the Sgt is unlikely to get punked by a power sword in a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzinatah Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Seems solid! Two Sicaran Battle Tanks is great if you later want to add Guilliman, too. I'd swap the Command Squad for Suzerain, because they are downright rude - Legatine axes are way better than Power weapons. You can scrape together a lot of points by dropping Armoured Ceramite and an Apothecary - might be worth seeing if you can squeeze something else in with the savings, and consider it. If you take Suzerain, the Apothecary buffs them really well - but they're already quite survivable. As for Armoured Ceramite, it's amazing, but it makes for a weird 'psuedo-MAD' situation - noone seems to take ranged Melta weaponry because Armoured Ceramite exists. Edit: I agree with Ishagu on the Combi Weapon/Power Fist swap. A single plasma/melta/flamer won't do very much. Also, Utimately, to really round things off, you could exchange the Contemptor for a Deredeo to add additional ranged firepower and effective AA, but that's only necessary if there's aerial threats in your meta. I'm guessing Wulox is going for the B@C set (30 basic Infantry and a Contemptor). Grabbing a second Kheres cannon would give a good AA option, and twin Kheres are straight up awesome. Modifying and magnetising the plastic Contemptor into a Mortis is really easy and pretty cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 You can't attach an Apothecary to Invictarus Suzerains. While all the other suggestions above are very good, they will mean dropping some of the stuff you've made so far. I assume it's mostly from Betrayal at Calth? Command Squads are not the greatest units around unfortunately. Suzerains are quite simply brilliant, and well-priced to boot. If you don't mind adjusting the stuff you have, or putting some of it aside for bigger games, then going for Ishagu's advice is pretty much spot-on. If you'd rather avoid Guilliman in games of this size, then a Praetor and something else will do fine instead. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I suggested he swap out the Apoth for a Centurion with the Chaplain consul upgrade :-) Imagine if they get updated to be able to join the Suzeirans? ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Dog Studios Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 I appreciate the feedback all! So, the PF's on the sergeants make sense, and they are an easy change! As is the removal of Armored Ceramite on the tanks. After clicking the link Izzinatah posted about the dread, it looks like a quick and easy modification that I can do. By removing the armored ceramite, I can afford the change of Apothecary to Chaplain too! Now for the bigger changes. I'm not really a fan of running a primarch at 2000 pts and less, and I don't feel my ability at modelling and painting is up to the standard of doing Gulliman justice right now. However, I would plan to get him in the future for higher points games. Leaving my Praetor as is, we come to the command squad, where I am ridiculously awkward. I'm not a fan of the Suzerain models, or the axe and shield aesthetic, hence the command squad instead. I've questioned my decision over this one for a while, but I have built a command squad that I really like the look of. I understand that the Suzerains are tonnes better however! If you can manage to change my mind, I will both love and hate you for making me see reason. What are thoughts on the Veteran squad, are they worth keeping at all, or is there a better way to use the points? They can be easily turned into a regular tactical squad if need be. Cheers, James! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Drop the Apoth, Veteran squad with bolters and the Armoured Ceramite from the Sicarans, keep everything else the same. Add a Typhon Heavy Siege Tank with Las Cannons lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzinatah Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 If you like the Command Squad & have the models built, go for it! As for Guilliman, I don't run him at 3k - but then, I'm playing against other non-Primarch forces. If you want to go competitive, you've got a great base to add him to later should you want to. You could turn your Veterans into a Heavy Support Squad. Flakk missiles are a great anti-air option, or if you ever want to add a Master of Signal he's great with practically any weapons option. In fact.. if you turn them into a Tactical Squad and take a MoS, you've got a Logos Lectora list. They could be another Rhino squad, or be the squad that holds an objective. Not the best of RoWs, but you've got infantry and a dreadnought that can benefit from it. Could be an option! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 You could always tweak your command squad to count as Suzerains if you like. Get some fancy axe type weapons you like the look of and maybe go for a more hoplite kind of shield? Or just use something like Grey Knight Interceptor backpacks to represent some form of energy shields to count as boarding shields! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Dog Studios Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 Thank you all for the assistance, it is much appreciated! You could always tweak your command squad to count as Suzerains if you like. Get some fancy axe type weapons you like the look of and maybe go for a more hoplite kind of shield? Or just use something like Grey Knight Interceptor backpacks to represent some form of energy shields to count as boarding shields! I particularly like the idea of the Hoplite shields, as I have been trying to go for more of a Greek theme rather than the standard Roman influences. Here's the new list taking into account the majority of all of your suggestions! + HQ (745pts) + Legion Centurion (105pts) [Artificer Armour, Refractor Field] Consul [Chaplain] Legion Praetor (640pts) [Artificer Armour, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Paragon Blade] Invictarus Suzerain Squad [6x Invictarus Suzerains, Land Raider Phobos] + Troops (430pts) + Legion Tactical Squad (215pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Fist] Legion Tactical Squad (215pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Fist] + Elites (475pts) + Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought (180pts) [Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons] Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (295pts) [2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Sniper] Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Weapon] + Heavy Support (350pts) + Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (175pts) [Lascannons] Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (175pts) [Lascannons] Thank you for taking the time to have a read and for helping me! If you see any more possible changes, just let me know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I like the new list! Seems quite balanced, and should hold its own in most games 2000 pts or less. Only thing I'd change is giving one of the Suzerains a Thunderhammer and the Sgt of your Veteran Squad a Powerfist instead of the Power Axe/Sword/Maul he has now. That hidden Thunderhammer can be a lifesaver, particularly against some of the bigger, badder things in 30K, which in general are going to be the only things moving TOWARD a Praetor & Suzerain bodyguards. To make it fit just give one of your Sicarans Heavy Bolter Sponsons rather than Lascannons, and boom you have the 20 pts you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 If you must save points, Don't drop Las Cannons from the Sicarans, instead drop the armour and force field upgrades from the Chaplain. He's easy to hide in that squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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