[HH1.0] Blood Angels Tactica - Assault Cannons For Days

[Blindhamster]

To be fair... those spears are AP2 now so it's a better plan than the axe usually

[Terminus]

The spears are AP2 only if you charge.  If you are charged, or if the combat goes on more than 1 phase, it reverts to a two-handed power sword.  So you can have situations where your challenge is turned down by an apothecary who gets to stay out of the combat, and then next turn you're obligated to face artificer/fist with 2 sword attacks. Their effect is also blunted when faced with terminators with 3+++ or 4++ saves, multiple wounds, and FNP (or if you're really unlucky, a unit featuring all three).

 

For serious dragmedown fights you bring your knuckles (sheathed in "an armoured gauntlet surrounded by a disruptive energy field", but knuckles nonetheless).  This goes for Blood Angels and Emperor's Children both.

 

I would give swords to guys like assault grunts and outriders to take advantage of I5 (speed kills). Blood Angels are much better off here than Children because their I5 swords kill marines as effectively as I1 power axes, while axes let you pretend you're an Inductii.

[simison]

Hello, I'd like some advice building a 3.5k list for an apoc game tomorrow. 9k on each side, broadly Chaos vs. Imperium. The other Imperial players will be bringing Black Templar, Dark Angels, and Guard. This will be my first try fielding the BA as a legion instead of a chapter. 

 

This is what I have: 

3xLand Raiders

5 or 6xDreadnoughts

10xScouts

20xTacs

13xDeath Company [No legion rules, obviously, but just mentioning them]

10xSanguinary Guard

2xRazorbacks

1xPredator

1xVindicator

2xLand Speeders

3xDrop Pods

1xDante

1xCaptain

1xCorbulo

1xLemartes

1xSanguinor

3xStormravens

15xAssault Marines

4xBikes

10-12xTerminators

 

Allies:

1 Knight Titan Warden [House Zivich]

4xLeman Russes

15xGuardsmen

 

Some substitution will be allowed, but nothing too far from the tree. (After all, I can't exactly field the special characters as themselves, but they could fulfill Consul and Praetor choices easily enough.) And I have a friend that can supplement me with extra models if I need them. I'm torn between using the Day of Revelation or playing something more basic to allow myself to field the knight titan. Also, those dreadnoughts are just the traditional box types. No Contemptors, Deredeos, or Leviathans among my forces.

 

EDIT: If I don't go with Day of Revelation, I would like to try out Pride of the Legion since it has less of an emphasis on dozens of bodies. 

 

Both lists would have a Praetor at its head with a Sanguinary Guard squad to function as a Legion Command Squad for mobility and extra stabbing. It's been recommended that the Praetor have a Blade of Perdition. Would it be better than a Paragon Blade, considering that I will see a few Daemons on the other side? (One of them is pretty much guaranteed to be a Bloodthirster.)

 

For Troop choices, it's obviously split between Veteran Tacs/Terminators and Assault Squads. I've seen heavy encouragement that, regardless of unit, sergeants should come with Artificer Armour and Power Fists. I get the armour, but what about the PFs? Does our bonus to wounding mean that it'd be better to stick to a cheaper power weapon?

Edited August 27, 2016 by simison

[simison]

So, I tried out the Blade of Perdition on my Praetor, who ended up fighting a Bloodthirster by the end of the game. He managed to knock off a wound every round, but was losing two members of the Command Squad in return. When the game ended, it was down to the Praetor and his Apothecary.

 

Is Deathfire really that much more effective than Murderous Strike? I see the Blade of Perdition being much more effective against terminator units, where Instant Death is of limited use, while Deathfire can overwhelm invul saves. 

[Blindhamster]

based on pure maths, we proved that the blade of perdition results in more wounds.

 

however, if you go against the odds, murderous strike is obviously a game changer, likewise the lack of strength buff on blade of perdition can be an issue at times.

[Terminus]

The Paragon blade is nice if you are willing to spend a more on a power fist for a second attack. And the +1S plus +1 to wound means you are wounding marines on 2+ with the paragon blade and Castellax on 2+ with the fist. This does get expensive, especially if you add master-crafted for a reroll. The Blade of Perdition gives you a lot of bang for not a lot of buck.

[simison]

Gotcha. I guess most Praetors don't have to worry about running into Bloodthirsters, and few other opponents will have such an advantage against Praetor with a Blade of Perdition. Will have to consider that next time I field the legion. 

[Charlo]

Big fan of the perdition. Especially as you can give it to consuls and turn them into murderers.

[simison]

Big fan of the perdition. Especially as you can give it to consuls and turn them into murderers.

 

That's something I'll have to try out. Tomorrow is my gaming day, and I'm transitioning from 40k to 30k, so I'll have a chance to run a much smaller game as the legion. With the new price reduction, do assualt troops make for a good core of a small (1500-ish) or would I be better off tacticals?

[Charlo]

Probably not, assault Marines are just great.

 

However there is merit to tacticals with extra combat weapons getting off a fury of the legion with their pistols and then charging into combat!

[Slips]

If you want a Fighty unit, take the Assault Marines. 2 Hidden power weapons (assuming 10), plus a Sarge with an Invulnerable Save in CC makes all the difference when punching other MEQ

Edited August 30, 2016 by Slipstreams

[simison]

If you want a Fighty unit, take the Assault Marines. 2 Hidden power weapons (assuming 10), plus a Sarge with an Invulnerable Save in CC makes all the difference when punching other MEQ

 

I keep forgetting that Combat Shields are actually worth something in 30k.

 

So, building a 1,500 point list as a start for any game that would take place tomorrow, here's what I'm thinking of for a core:

 

Centurion [Refractor field, Artificer Armour, Blade of Retribution, Jump Pack]

-Chaplain Consul

 

2xAssault Squads [10xMarines, 2xPower Swords, SGT with/Artificer, Combat Shield, & PF]

 

Should I put the Centurion with one of the Assault Squads or give him a more elite to hop around with? Keep in mind, my meta is purely 40k with me being the only exception. My other concern is that in any Maelstrom game, my large squad sizes are going to work against me.

 

Points so far: 591

Edited August 30, 2016 by simison

[Slips]

There are no Elite Jump Pack Units so might as well make him a Chaplain and slap him onto an Assault Squad. Take 2 Apothecaries w/ Jump Packs and Power Sword for an additional weapon and FNP and you're getting somewhere.

[simison]

Can a chaplain take a Blade of Perdition? Not sure how the Crozius rule works with it.

[Theredknight]

You getter crozius (a power weapon as modelled, could be an axe/sword/mace) so a blade is as normal.

Any independent character can have it

[Terminus]

Probably not, assault Marines are just great.

 

However there is merit to tacticals with extra combat weapons getting off a fury of the legion with their pistols and then charging into combat!

How often are you going to be in position to forfeit movement, shoot at something, and then charge? Seems sketchy.  I normally don't bother with CCWs on Tacticals just to keep them dirt cheap, and generally try to avoid using them for anything other than Orbital Assault and Coils of the Hydra (see cheap).  The BA rules make the weapons more valuable, but I'm not sure anyone will want to run Orbital Assault over Day of Revelation.  DoR annoys me that it doesn't give me drop pods.

[Flint13]

I don't think you can charge in the same turn as a Fury attack, can you?

[Terminus]

"May otherwise move, fight in assault, run, etc. normally".

[Flint13]

Nice!

 

I think I'm thinking of chainfire.

[Charlo]

It is a crying shame the DoR doesn't give pods to infantry. But I can see why, it would be so rife for abuse and once we have our inevitable special jump units and big S it'll be even better already.

 

Doesn't stop a cheeky Leviathan pod though granting a 3+ cover to all the assault Marines behind him...

[simison]

You getter crozius (a power weapon as modelled, could be an axe/sword/mace) so a blade is as normal.

Any independent character can have it

 

Excellent, I've added that in. Putting the Chaplain with one of the assault squads will allow that squad to eat through most infantry squads, while the second squad can reinforce them or attack a different flank.

 

But if it's a Maelstrom game, I'll need some units to hold the rear. I have two infantry units, so I have some room for armoured units. I'm curious about adding a Vindicator with a Laser Destroyer Array, and trying that out, for some long-range anti-tank firepower. 

 

Or maybe a Heavy Support Squad armed with assault cannons. 

[CaptainHelion]

Three units, actually. The Centurion-Chaplain counts as one as well.

[Theredknight]

Las vindis will be FAQd soon I think here's my thread all about it. 36" is ok, no 48" though lol

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/324325-laser-destroyer-and-laser-destroyer-arrays/?do=findComment&comment=4457629

 

One way to use them is a squadron, 2 or 3, number 2 las vindis and a demolisher then machine spirit the demolisher. Shoot the las vindis at armour, and demolisher tanks the shots and does infantry!

[Gorgoff]

You can not Charge after using Fury of the Legion if you use your Boltguns. It is a rapid fire weapon.

[IronDrake28]

You can not Charge after using Fury of the Legion if you use your Boltguns. It is a rapid fire weapon.

They're talking about using FoTL with Bolt Pistols.