defl0 Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 i think you mix it with contemptors to really get the most out of it. You need some hth push back o waves of infatnry can just walk all over you. warp cult militia could be a good combo too Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4421830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I do interpret it that way, but I see your point now- the allied FAQ sets precedent for it to be the other way around. Need a microscope even to read the FAQ, good god. Thanks Terminus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4421834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Terminus is 100% correct. MotL =/= Warlord. It only does in the case of a Primarch, Delegatus or Herald because of thier other rules Running allied Rites of war is great - you could take Iron Warriors for Hammer of Olympia and get Both Havocs and Siege Tyrants :D Or you could use the RoW we are discussing and all you need to bring is a Preator and a single Predator. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4422187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I do interpret it that way, but I see your point now- the allied FAQ sets precedent for it to be the other way around. Need a microscope even to read the FAQ, good god. Thanks Terminus Honestly, it happens to all of us. The GW/FW Brits aren't really very clear with their language, and it gets worse the longer you play as you start confusing editions and rules. I've now played in all 7 plus now the mod that is Age of Darkness, and it gets tough keeping it all straight. I make it a rule to read the rulebook in full every 6 months or so just to keep everything fresh, and I still make mistakes. Also, kudos to you to be able to read between the lines and accept precedent. If only the drop pods = immobile crowd had your attitude. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4422455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 So something I read from Wolfpack today got my mind turning on exactly how important leviathan dreadnoughts are as a close combat deturrant in lists heavy with armor. I think he's on to something there I have been starting to write leviathans into my list at upwards of 2400 because they really can act as a " you sure you wanna get in here bro ?" Type roadblock. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4427757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 I like Castallax for that, as they are cheaper, but I entirely agree- if you go with lots of armour having a strong melee unit to act as a melee deterrent is a good way to round out a list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4427811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Aye - Castellax are a pretty great backfield unit - darklances and ap2 in combat is nice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4427934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Teeth Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 I am working towards having an army using this list. I play Iron Hands and was really looking forward to a bike-mounted Praetor accompanied by ultra-fluffy Outriders. Sadly that idea was thwarted by their Rigid Tactics (need more infantry units than bikes/jump thingies), so I re-wrote the list: HQ Castrmen Orth (rides the Sicaran) Delegatus + Refractor FieldDamocles Command RhinoTroops Predator Squadron (2 tanks) + Lascannon sponsons, Dozer blades, Blessed AutosimulacraPredator Squadron (2 tanks) + Lascannon sponsons, Dozer blades, Blessed AutosimulacraElites Sicaran Battle Tank + Lascannon sponsons, Dozer blade, Armoured Ceramite Fast Attack Xiphon Interceptor Heavy Support Predator Squadron (3 tanks) + Magna melta's, Lascannon sponsons, Dozer blades, Machine Spirits Vindicator Squadron (2 tanks) + Dozer blades 2000pts I'm trying to eke everything I can out of that Fast vehicle upgrade. Gonna manage whatever I put in to Reserves with the Damocles, and hide both it and the Delegatus somewhere hard to reach. Orth in the Sicaran is a no-brainer, and with this army, perhaps his Rite might be of use? Maybe not... I can always choose to use the Delegatus as Warlord. I've given the Melta squadron Machine Spirits, not just to split fire, but also to allow them to move 12" and fire all 3 weapons. I'm concerned I could be alpha-striked in to oblivion, but I think the army would look great, and if pushed to 3k, could look fantastic with Orth in his Fellblade leading a huge armoured battalion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4427959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 I am working towards having an army using this list. I play Iron Hands and was really looking forward to a bike-mounted Praetor accompanied by ultra-fluffy Outriders. Sadly that idea was thwarted by their Rigid Tactics (need more infantry units than bikes/jump thingies), so I re-wrote the list: HQ Castrmen Orth (rides the Sicaran) Delegatus + Refractor Field Damocles Command Rhino Troops Predator Squadron (2 tanks) + Lascannon sponsons, Dozer blades, Blessed Autosimulacra Predator Squadron (2 tanks) + Lascannon sponsons, Dozer blades, Blessed Autosimulacra Elites Sicaran Battle Tank + Lascannon sponsons, Dozer blade, Armoured Ceramite Fast Attack Xiphon Interceptor Heavy Support Predator Squadron (3 tanks) + Magna melta's, Lascannon sponsons, Dozer blades, Machine Spirits Vindicator Squadron (2 tanks) + Dozer blades 2000pts I'm trying to eke everything I can out of that Fast vehicle upgrade. Gonna manage whatever I put in to Reserves with the Damocles, and hide both it and the Delegatus somewhere hard to reach. Orth in the Sicaran is a no-brainer, and with this army, perhaps his Rite might be of use? Maybe not... I can always choose to use the Delegatus as Warlord. I've given the Melta squadron Machine Spirits, not just to split fire, but also to allow them to move 12" and fire all 3 weapons. I'm concerned I could be alpha-striked in to oblivion, but I think the army would look great, and if pushed to 3k, could look fantastic with Orth in his Fellblade leading a huge armoured battalion. Why a Xiphon and not a lightning? Having played Armour breakthrough recently you are going to need some sort of combat unit. I would suggest dropping the Vindicators and seeing what you can get for them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4428066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 I don't think you need that many lascannons. The sponsons are very expensive for what you get. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4428080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 I don't think you need that many lascannons. The sponsons are very expensive for what you get. Agreed. I'd look at the scorpius for removing things like Rapier batteries. To be honest I would gear your troop preds with heavy bolters, and put your anti-tank elsewhere if you are doing a pure AB list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4428141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Lascannon sponsons are one of the cheapest way to get them into an army and it makes your predators dangerous. I'd rather you drop things like dozer blades and ceramite, personally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4428226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Teeth Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Why a Xiphon and not a lightning? Having played Armour breakthrough recently you are going to need some sort of combat unit. I would suggest dropping the Vindicators and seeing what you can get for them. I own a Xiphon already, in fact I just bought it. I wanted a genuine Astartes flyer to go with my marines, plus I really like the way it looks. Combat units eat points I've noticed, particularly if you want to get them somewhere fast. What kind of things might you suggest? Things that come to my mind are: - a Leviathan (I'd rather not get a Leviathan for my IH's - it doesn't suit my armies aesthetic.) - another group of Dreadnoughts, maybe 2 melee Contemptors or 3 Boxnaughts - Tool up my Character and get him some friends* *on foot or mounted? This is the problem I ran in to before being Iron Hands - Terminators? - Allies? I'm looking to make a 500pt Deep Striking unit of an Imperial Fists Praetor & Terminator friends running Pride of the Legion for fun, anyway. Lascannon sponsons are one of the cheapest way to get them into an army and it makes your predators dangerous. I'd rather you drop things like dozer blades and ceramite, personally. I also felt Lascannons were more versatile than Heavy bolters, killing marines more or less as effectively, if not with a slim chance of killing lots with luck. If it came down to scraping points I'd consider trimming some off the Troops in a pinch. Same for Armoured Ceramite. It doesn't need to be there, it was a nice-to-have. I would not remove the dozer blades however; I have a terrible track record of getting critical vehicles stuck on terrain with failed tests and have learned my lesson. I skimped on the Damocles' one as it will likely be hiding mostly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4428232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
defl0 Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 I am working towards having an army using this list. I play Iron Hands and was really looking forward to a bike-mounted Praetor accompanied by ultra-fluffy Outriders. Sadly that idea was thwarted by their Rigid Tactics (need more infantry units than bikes/jump thingies), so I re-wrote the list: HQ Castrmen Orth (rides the Sicaran) Delegatus + Refractor Field Damocles Command Rhino Troops Predator Squadron (2 tanks) + Lascannon sponsons, Dozer blades, Blessed Autosimulacra Predator Squadron (2 tanks) + Lascannon sponsons, Dozer blades, Blessed Autosimulacra Elites Sicaran Battle Tank + Lascannon sponsons, Dozer blade, Armoured Ceramite Fast Attack Xiphon Interceptor Heavy Support Predator Squadron (3 tanks) + Magna melta's, Lascannon sponsons, Dozer blades, Machine Spirits Vindicator Squadron (2 tanks) + Dozer blades 2000pts I'm trying to eke everything I can out of that Fast vehicle upgrade. Gonna manage whatever I put in to Reserves with the Damocles, and hide both it and the Delegatus somewhere hard to reach. Orth in the Sicaran is a no-brainer, and with this army, perhaps his Rite might be of use? Maybe not... I can always choose to use the Delegatus as Warlord. I've given the Melta squadron Machine Spirits, not just to split fire, but also to allow them to move 12" and fire all 3 weapons. I'm concerned I could be alpha-striked in to oblivion, but I think the army would look great, and if pushed to 3k, could look fantastic with Orth in his Fellblade leading a huge armoured battalion. Also, why take any preds as heavy slot? In troops you basically get free scoring. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4428322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 You cannot "choose" to use the Delegatus as Warlord. He is always the Warlord unless you bring a Primarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4428411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 I am working towards having an army using this list. I play Iron Hands and was really looking forward to a bike-mounted Praetor accompanied by ultra-fluffy Outriders. Sadly that idea was thwarted by their Rigid Tactics (need more infantry units than bikes/jump thingies), so I re-wrote the list: HQ Castrmen Orth (rides the Sicaran) Delegatus + Refractor Field Damocles Command Rhino Troops Predator Squadron (2 tanks) + Lascannon sponsons, Dozer blades, Blessed Autosimulacra Predator Squadron (2 tanks) + Lascannon sponsons, Dozer blades, Blessed Autosimulacra Elites Sicaran Battle Tank + Lascannon sponsons, Dozer blade, Armoured Ceramite Fast Attack Xiphon Interceptor Heavy Support Predator Squadron (3 tanks) + Magna melta's, Lascannon sponsons, Dozer blades, Machine Spirits Vindicator Squadron (2 tanks) + Dozer blades 2000pts I'm trying to eke everything I can out of that Fast vehicle upgrade. Gonna manage whatever I put in to Reserves with the Damocles, and hide both it and the Delegatus somewhere hard to reach. Orth in the Sicaran is a no-brainer, and with this army, perhaps his Rite might be of use? Maybe not... I can always choose to use the Delegatus as Warlord. I've given the Melta squadron Machine Spirits, not just to split fire, but also to allow them to move 12" and fire all 3 weapons. I'm concerned I could be alpha-striked in to oblivion, but I think the army would look great, and if pushed to 3k, could look fantastic with Orth in his Fellblade leading a huge armoured battalion. Also, why take any preds as heavy slot? In troops you basically get free scoring. On that topic, split up the troop predators so they aren't in squadrons. You have the slots, so why not? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4428458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Also, why take any preds as heavy slot? In troops you basically get free scoring. So actually I'm not sure on this, but I think the only Predators you're allowed to take as troops under Armoured Breakthrough are tanks with the Predator cannon turret (and his HS Preds have Magna-meltas). I'm looking at the wording in the Rite and wondering if that's only for your compulsory tanks, or if you can take variants as non-compulsory troops? Leaning towards the former though. On that topic, split up the troop predators so they aren't in squadrons. You have the slots, so why not? This is a really great point that I've been ignoring writing my own Armoured Breakthrough lists. Dang. Thanks for that one! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4428519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 The way I read it is that only Predators with the Predator Cannon turret can be used to fill the Compulsory Troops Slots for the RoW. Meaning if you have at least 2x1 Pred Squads w/ Pred Turret, then you're free to take any other turret in the Troops Slot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4428529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 That's the way I read it too. I can see it going either way, honestly, as the wording isn't terribly concise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4428570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 The way I read it is that only Predators with the Predator Cannon turret can be used to fill the Compulsory Troops Slots for the RoW. Meaning if you have at least 2x1 Pred Squads w/ Pred Turret, then you're free to take any other turret in the Troops Slot. This may very well cause me to consider buying more predators. Damn. You. Slipstreams! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4428578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Hire me forgeworld look at how much stuff I'm selling *COUGH* Huh?..uh...yeah...totally, more Predators! :tu: Plasma Turret for 3 Shot No Gets Hot! Plasma Cannon or Magna Melta for S8 Ap1 Large Blast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4428579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 The idea of taking plasma predators certainly appeals to me. I had somewhat decided against it cause my HS slot even when using armored breakthrough was so busy but this new revelation pretty much just screams buy more predators Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4428606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Once the new updated legion list book is out I may start a tank company row especially since we can have Malcadors now :D what is the best way for outfitting the hq with master of legion do you stick him on a bike to keep him mobile or hide him somewhere in a transport Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4428614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Depends. Having your HQ/MOTL Source in a potent combat squad can help you stop any Meltabomb Equipped squads from running up to your tanks and just meltabombing them dead. Since tanks cant Overwatch, if they get into a good position or you somehow got boxed in or didn't space out enough, a Meltabomb Multicharge could be particularly devastating. It would also help you in Missions where Sweeping Advances grant an extra VP when successfully performed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4428616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 For mine I'm thinking on a combination of executioner predators & sicarans for antipersonal and antitank Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318925-making-the-new-tank-company-row-work/page/2/#findComment-4428628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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