Epic scale returns, but in a new scale.

[malika666]

I 110% agree with increasing the sacale to 10mm.

The technology does not exist to make super detailed 6mm figures and keep it cost effective at the same time.

Erm, yes it does. The digital sculpting and 3d printing technologies are sufficient to make some great 6mm models, look at stuff like Defeat in Detail or Onslaught Miniatures. Or look at these fan-made Terminators!

 

I've got a feeling GW might stick to the 6mm scale, but will 'correct' the inconsistencies. So the 'change' in scale is more to tweak the titans and such to fit the infantry models.

[Adeptus]

I will be pissed if GW decides to re-scale Epic. I'm almost certain they will, since they will want people to buy new stuff and not be able to use their old stuff. And they'll sell it as wanting to make more detailed models, but they would only be doing it to sell more overpriced plastic.

 

I already have a large Epic force in 6mm. I don't think I would change to another scale. No, scratch that, I KNOW I wouldn't change to another scale. And I'd encourage everyone at my local group to buy re-cast and 3rd party models if they were interested in Epic as well, rather than going to the new scale.

[Vaaish]

If I can pop in here (haven't posted on B&C for years), I'd like to add to the chorus that a rescale of Epic to something other than 6mm would be a mistake. The difference in size and cost for a model at 6mm scale compared to 15mm isn't that great when you are talking about infantry, but it would push the cost of larger things like vehicles up considerably. 6mm scale also works quite well to allow you to have maneuver on a standard table and increasing the scale just serves to reduce the overall space on the table for a similar force size (assuming they don't reduce the scope of the game). 

 

Detail also isn't an issue with 6mm. Typically the issue lies with how people paint the models which really isn't much different than 40k. Even the older GW models are fairly well detailed and can look really nice on the table, but the fan made creations using modern CAD and 3d printing techniques are incredibly detailed and look amazing painted up (I feel I'm qualified to say this having painted more 6mm marines than I care to remember). 

 

Last of all is the community. The UK and Australia both have a very strong epic community as does France. It might not be massive but the community isn't small and does keep growing. These folks aren't going to just jump onto the new from GW bandwagon especially if it invalidates everything the community has built in the last decade. If GW wants to see a new version of Epic be a success they will need to cater to that demographic since they're the ones still primarily interested and will likely just ignore GW if it doesn't work with the models they already have.

[paulJam]

just jump onto the new from GW bandwagon especially if it invalidates everything the community has built in the last decade. If GW wants to see a new version of Epic be a success they will need to cater to that demographic since they're the ones still primarily interested and will likely just ignore GW if it doesn't work with the models they already have.

and there are enough 3rd party model makers already tooled for the demographic that prefers 6mm so it's not lik GW has a monopoly on the plastic.

 

to add to this... unlike the other box games they've released there is no secondary reason for 28mm players to get it as it can't drop the models into their 'regular' army if they don't like the game aspect (or even if they do).

 

so anyone not interested in epic scale specifically is not necessarily going to be as inspired to get it compared to Calth/Overkill/SpaceHulk etc.

 

(sweeping generalizations to follow) GW would be relying primarily on inspiring a brand new generation of 10/15mm epic players given some/many/all of the old school will/may snub it on principal.

[Adeptus]

(sweeping generalizations to follow) GW would be relying primarily on inspiring a brand new generation of 10/15mm epic players given some/many/all of the old school will/may snub it on principal.

I'm not just going to snub it, I'm going to actively encourage people to buy re-cast and fan made miniatures in 6mm scale!

[malika666]

 

 

and there are enough 3rd party model makers already tooled for the demographic that prefers 6mm so it's not lik GW has a monopoly on the plastic.

If I recall correctly only Defeat in Detail (currently only in metal) were trying to do a plastic range, it necked the range's original owners (Troublemaker Games). Plastic is still very tricky to do price wize.

[ElectricPaladin]

As a potential new Epic player, I honestly don't care what scale it's in, as long as it's awesome. I respect the feelings of my elders and understand why you'd be frustrated, but… it's been a long time. It's one thing to radically change a game that was on sale on Monday to a whole new game on Tuesday; it's something else to take a game that's been moribund for decades and reimagine it. I think that when some posters write about not being a slave to the past, that's what they mean - it's especially distinct when the past is that past.

 

And I promise to have the same understanding attitude when they do the same to BFG.

[paulJam]

But there is an active though small epic presenced despite the lack of gw and fw support. Its been a long time since they supported it but not a long time since people last played it.

 

My feeling is they're aiming for a new market not the old school players anyway. 'Detail' seem to be the new marketing thrust.

I can easily see why the old guard would find this... insulting.

 

And i knew i should have written models rather the plastics :)

[Vaaish]

 

 

As a potential new Epic player, I honestly don't care what scale it's in, as long as it's awesome. I respect the feelings of my elders and understand why you'd be frustrated, but… it's been a long time.

 

Well, if it works, why mess with it? Epic:A is already awesome and it's awesome at 6mm. Other than invalidating every 6mm army out there, what does GW gain by changing the scale? Unless they plan to scrap everything about the Epic:A rules and start from scratch, a change in scale would affect table scenery, weapons ranges, blast weapons, movement speeds, production costs for larger models and for a larger box to fit things in. That's a lot of change and I can't think of much outside of possibly more detailed models. I've attached an image comparing 6mm scale to 15mm scale. That's considerably larger.

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5xRX1Ob1pdw/U1in2teKeUI/AAAAAAAAH1I/PIaJdszHQsU/s1600/58817c5d49aa59b2f39dfbba0b3da8dd_large.jpg

[paulJam]

Vaasish there's always the possibility they'll put everything onto hexes :)

 

Edit: excellent photo btw. As suggested before. The smaller scale same size table is a selling point that is refuced with 15mm.

 

Im kind of surprised gw dont consider 15mm too close to their core size product.

[ElectricPaladin]

 

As a potential new Epic player, I honestly don't care what scale it's in, as long as it's awesome. I respect the feelings of my elders and understand why you'd be frustrated, but… it's been a long time.

 

Well, if it works, why mess with it? Epic:A is already awesome and it's awesome at 6mm. Other than invalidating every 6mm army out there, what does GW gain by changing the scale? Unless they plan to scrap everything about the Epic:A rules and start from scratch, a change in scale would affect table scenery, weapons ranges, blast weapons, movement speeds, production costs for larger models and for a larger box to fit things in. That's a lot of change and I can't think of much outside of possibly more detailed models. I've attached an image comparing 6mm scale to 15mm scale. That's considerably larger.

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5xRX1Ob1pdw/U1in2teKeUI/AAAAAAAAH1I/PIaJdszHQsU/s1600/58817c5d49aa59b2f39dfbba0b3da8dd_large.jpg

 

Those are really good questions. I don't know the answers because I'm not on the design team. Maybe they want to produce models with the kind of detail that's hard to do at 6mm? Maybe they want to change the scale of the game slightly (ie. the size of the table, the length of the game)? Maybe they want to change the game so it focuses more on titans and tanks of a certain size? Maybe they want to place a greater or lesser emphasis on infantry? Who knows?

 

For example - what if they want to have the new edition focus on reaver titans as the "basic" unit of the game (ie. they're the size of a Space Marine and that's what most of your army is made of). Warlords should be about dreadnought size, knights should be squat-sized, and so on. That would demand a certain scale. On the other hand, let's say they want to capitalize on the popularity of Imperial Knights. If knights are the basic referential unit of the game, and they're Space Marine sized, then reavers are going to be dreadnought sized and warlords are going to be dreadknight sized, and that will require a different scale.

 

I don't know what kind of game they're trying to design.

[Vaaish]

Other than an arbitrary we want you to rebuy everything or making titans true scale 6mm I don't think a scale change is really defensible especially if you are effectively creating a game that destroys the core of what epic is. It would be akin to releasing space hulk with the rules for Calth and everyone would cry foul. If they want to make a new game at a different scale, fine, but it won't be epic.

[ElectricPaladin]

Other than an arbitrary we want you to rebuy everything or making titans true scale 6mm I don't think a scale change is really defensible especially if you are effectively creating a game that destroys the core of what epic is. It would be akin to releasing space hulk with the rules for Calth and everyone would cry foul. If they want to make a new game at a different scale, fine, but it won't be epic.

 

That's a legit response. It won't be epic - it'll be whatever it is now. Hopefully it'll be cool.

[Mard]

Honestly I think when they say they will be re-releasing Epic it will just be another board game release. Most likely Adeptus Titanicus but on a hex like city/hive board.

They aren't really in the market for making new tabletop wargames other than their already existing 28mm 40k and AoS - those are the big bread winners.

[malika666]

http://i.imgur.com/o8Yy3CA.jpg

[malika666]

Time to be worried: http://recalcitrantdaze.blogspot.nl/2016/05/warhammer-fest-2016-part-four-lord-of.html

 

Ok, not exactly much to show here except the poster below.

However talking to Andy Hoare, Mark Bedford and Chris Drew I can mention the following:

The game is set during the Horus Heresy in the spirit of the original Adeptus Titanicus.
It will begin with just Titans.
The scale will be 8mm - They decided on this scale after 3D printing a Marine, Dread, Leman Russ, Warlord and a Mastodon in three different scales. 8mm was deemed the best as you could see the details to the point of telling different armour marks apart but didn't make the Titans too big.
8mm will make a Warlord around 6" tall (that's what it looked like why Andy Hoare put his hands apart, don't blame me if the final model is smaller or larger...).
The models will be produced in resin by Forge World.
Typical force may be in the region of two Warlords, two Reavers and two-three Warhounds.
More Titan variants are possible.
Down the road infantry and tanks are to be introduced.
Other forces are also possible, this includes Xenos which can be introduced in a themed expansion, e.g. Adeptus Titanicus: Armageddon to bring in the Orks.
Currently the Titans are being 3D modelled by Chris Drew, the Warlord has been done as the 40k version was originally 3D modelled so it was a case of just scaling things down and getting it to work as a model which can be manufactured.

[Vogon]

It's an interesting choice.

 

Does anyone else use 8mm? It will be interesting to see how the actual models measure up against existing infantry, tanks and Titans.

[Doctor Perils]

Is 2mm scale difference large enough that it invalidates the older models ?

 

 

Time to be worried: http://recalcitrantdaze.blogspot.nl/2016/05/warhammer-fest-2016-part-four-lord-of.html

 

Ok, not exactly much to show here except the poster below.

However talking to Andy Hoare, Mark Bedford and Chris Drew I can mention the following:

The game is set during the Horus Heresy in the spirit of the original Adeptus Titanicus.
It will begin with just Titans.
The scale will be 8mm - They decided on this scale after 3D printing a Marine, Dread, Leman Russ, Warlord and a Mastodon in three different scales. 8mm was deemed the best as you could see the details to the point of telling different armour marks apart but didn't make the Titans too big.
8mm will make a Warlord around 6" tall (that's what it looked like why Andy Hoare put his hands apart, don't blame me if the final model is smaller or larger...).
The models will be produced in resin by Forge World.
Typical force may be in the region of two Warlords, two Reavers and two-three Warhounds.
More Titan variants are possible.
Down the road infantry and tanks are to be introduced.
Other forces are also possible, this includes Xenos which can be introduced in a themed expansion, e.g. Adeptus Titanicus: Armageddon to bring in the Orks.
Currently the Titans are being 3D modelled by Chris Drew, the Warlord has been done as the 40k version was originally 3D modelled so it was a case of just scaling things down and getting it to work as a model which can be manufactured.

If not, then I don't see what's the problem, since I'm not a player (yet)

Is it because they don't seem to be producing rules for the other armies right from the word go?

 

 

I'd be interested in starting nu-Epic in a couple of years time I think :)

[ElectricPaladin]

This all sounds great to me. My only concern is that 8mm doesn't seem to be as popular a scale, so finding terrain might be rough. Otherwise… I'm really pumped. I can't wait to start painting up my titans!

[malika666]

Is 2mm scale difference large enough that it invalidates the older models ?

Time to be worried: http://recalcitrantdaze.blogspot.nl/2016/05/warhammer-fest-2016-part-four-lord-of.html

Ok, not exactly much to show here except the poster below.

However talking to Andy Hoare, Mark Bedford and Chris Drew I can mention the following:

The game is set during the Horus Heresy in the spirit of the original Adeptus Titanicus.

It will begin with just Titans.

The scale will be 8mm - They decided on this scale after 3D printing a Marine, Dread, Leman Russ, Warlord and a Mastodon in three different scales. 8mm was deemed the best as you could see the details to the point of telling different armour marks apart but didn't make the Titans too big.

8mm will make a Warlord around 6" tall (that's what it looked like why Andy Hoare put his hands apart, don't blame me if the final model is smaller or larger...).

The models will be produced in resin by Forge World.

Typical force may be in the region of two Warlords, two Reavers and two-three Warhounds.

More Titan variants are possible.

Down the road infantry and tanks are to be introduced.

Other forces are also possible, this includes Xenos which can be introduced in a themed expansion, e.g. Adeptus Titanicus: Armageddon to bring in the Orks.

Currently the Titans are being 3D modelled by Chris Drew, the Warlord has been done as the 40k version was originally 3D modelled so it was a case of just scaling things down and getting it to work as a model which can be manufactured.

If not, then I don't see what's the problem, since I'm not a player (yet)

Is it because they don't seem to be producing rules for the other armies right from the word go?

I'd be interested in starting nu-Epic in a couple of years time I think

Imagine a normal "28mm" (which is actually closer to 30mm) scale model you have in 40k, and replace it for a 40mm tall one.

[Doctor Perils]

Imagine a normal "28mm" (which is actually closer to 30mm) scale model you have in 40k, and replace it for a 40mm tall one.

 

Ah, I hadn't thought about it like that :P

[Mard]

8mm should be fine honestly.
The original titans/aircraft and vehicles were underscaled for the infantry.
And the infanty itself wasn't true 6mm. It was GW "Heroic scale" 6mm.

The warlord being around 6inch would be perfect scale for a "true scale" for current epic (About the right scale to fit in with the other true scale forumware titans) 

[Vogon]

 

Imagine a normal "28mm" (which is actually closer to 30mm) scale model you have in 40k, and replace it for a 40mm tall one.

I really don't think that it will be that much of a problem. There has been a number of scale creeps in GW models over the years and the models still mix acceptably on the table top. Compare the original metal terminators with a modern plastic. Quite a big difference but the old ones still work.

 

I'd buy new Titans in a heartbeat, troops and tanks I'll wait and see what they look like once they're done but I know I will be making use of my old epic ones as well.

 

If they release a stand alone rule book then I will get that and go from there.

 

Cheers

 

Vogon

[Gillyfish]

*mm is rare, but as others have said should work well with the old range of models (a bigger titan is never a bad thing). IF the game is popular I'm sure you'll see 4Grpund and other scenery manufacturers producing terrain for it. If you stick with just the titans you could get away with some of their 10mm Dropzone stuff already.

[appiah4]

What GW with one hand giveth will with the other take.. Thus spake 15 years of experience..