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Daemons CAD possible in 30k?


Khornestar

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After seeing Samus's rules (that he can be a HQ in a primary detachment of Daemons) I got curious if it's possible to take a Daemons CAD. Can make an allied detachment the primary IIRC, but I figured I'd ask in case I missed this somewhere.

 

So far I've only noticed certain WB characters and the chaos militia provenances that allow them to take Daemons, but only as an allied detachment.

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If Samus is selected in an army which uses Codex: Chaos Daemons as its Primary Detachment in Age of Darkness games, Samus may be counted as a HQ choice rather than as a Lords of War choice. If this is the case, then Samus must be the army’s Warlord and has the following Warlord trait rather than rolling to determine a trait.

 

 

Imo you can use Codex: Chaos Daemons for your 30k games, you just need to use the detachments rules from the AoD expansion ... 

Hi, not posting to arbitrarily debate this, but I honestly thought it was always ok (Edit - by this, I meant Daemons is ok, CAD is NOT recommended, as we'll see below...but at least we can play as Daemons).  This issue is important to our meta because a lot of us want to get into 30k, while others want to play certain Xenos races (mainly Orks and Necrons, some Eldar).  Taken from the HH1: Betrayal Errata & Addenda v 1.1 (May 2013):

 

-----

 

Q: Are the armies and units in the Horus Heresy books by Forge World meant to be used in
games against regular Codex armies, such as say Grey Knights or Orks?
 
A: While Forge World’s on-going range of Horus Heresy books and their game content are all
designed to use and be compatible with the Warhammer 40,000 rules, they have been fine-tuned and
focused on playing battles in the milieu of the Horus Heresy rather than in conjunction with the
Codexes representing warfare in the 41st Millennium, and this will remain the case.
Designer’s Note: This means that while you are, of course, free to have fun and play games against
your friends using any forces you like, and Horus Heresy forces will be broadly ‘a fair fight’ with
Codex forces of the same scale, certain rules anomalies and inconsistencies may be thrown up that
you have to deal with, although these should not seriously affect the game in most cases. (For
example, certain units, such as those with the Stubborn special rule are at a premium costing in
Horus Heresy armies over their regular Codex counterparts, owing to the results of play testing
within their own sphere.)
 
In terms of using Lords of War and the Primarchs, however, these are definitely not intended to be
used in standard Warhammer 40,000 games, but only in games where both sides use the Age of
Darkness Force Organisation chart, and the specific provisions within, and in games of 2,000 points
or greater.
 
Designer’s Note: So if, for example, you wanted to play a battle representing a narrative where the
Sons of Horus Legion fought Orks or Eldar during the Great Crusade, you could quite easily use
those xenos forces’ Warhammer 40,000 Codexes (possibly house-ruled to accommodate larger
squads) to proxy for their Heresy-era counterparts. In this case, however, both sides should be using
the Age of Darkness Force Organisation chart, with the army’s own Apocalypse level units and flyers
available as Lords of War entries following the guidelines found on page 184 of Betrayal.
 
-----
 
TL;DR - 40k armies can be compatible with 30k, but should use the Age of Darkness way of organising armies, and be careful when taking Primarchs and LoWs.  As an aside, I'd suggest avoiding armies like Tau as they simply didn't exist yet.  Edit - i.e. Daemons are ok, but probably better as AoD FOC, not CAD.
 
Just checking if there was a later ruling that trumped this errata.  I'm actually building a Taghmata + IH force, so I'm not trying to forcefully interpret the rules, just wanted to make sure my friends who want to use Xenos aren't left out of the fun.

No - daemons can only be allied with Word Bearers or a Cult force (i think cults can also have them) - otherwise, they can't have allies (for now, since they aren't in the allies matrix). But of course you can play them.

 

That said, it would make sense for mid to late heresy era traitors to get them also as allies option - SoH used them for Molech, DG had one there too (a certain daemonprince), and I can see Fulgrim using some girls once he got promoted to prince ^^

The Blackshields rules state that when they are "taken alongside other forces, they are treated as Fellow Warriors",so I guess this would allow them to bypass the allies matrix problem, that is, if you consider Daemons to be an AoD army.

im guessing it's contravening rules to allow a unit of daemonettes with a legion army, At the moment anyway.

I might ask the people I play with if they mind for fluff reasons, not even many, just a few as my 30 kakophoni roar across the table spreading harmony across the enemy lines.

Would you allow someone to play that you in your group?

I'm talking pretty big games here btw minimum 3k more like 4k tbh. Not some broken rules abuse thing, just think it'd be cool. They get sort of summoned at the maravaglia anyway on board the flagship.

I'd totally allow my death guard friend to play plague bearers or corrupt plague marines representing a few that have been 'granted long life by grandfather nurgle'

There are no rules saying that you can use Chaos Daemons, apart from an Experimental PDF for Samus that are not yet 'Sanctioned'.

 

The PDF noted for the FAQ is out of date by 3 years nearly and has had since then 8 new releases and a 9th on its way soon.

 

Given the nature of the game and it being FW, you can play with whatever you like. But there is no support for including Chaos Daemons

There are no rules saying that you can use Chaos Daemons, apart from an Experimental PDF for Samus that are not yet 'Sanctioned'.

 

The PDF noted for the FAQ is out of date by 3 years nearly and has had since then 8 new releases and a 9th on its way soon.

 

Given the nature of the game and it being FW, you can play with whatever you like. But there is no support for including Chaos Daemons

Öhm yes there is xD

 

You should read Tempest ^^

 

also ...

 

Cor’bax Utterblight is a Lords of War choice for a Codex: Chaos Daemons army. If Cor’bax Utterblight is selected in an army which uses Codex: Chaos Daemons as its Primary Detachment in Age of Darkness games, Cor’bax Utterblight may be counted as a HQ choice rather than as a Lords of War choice. If this is the case, then Cor’bax Utterblight must be the army’s Warlord and has the following Warlord trait rather than rolling to determine a trait.

 

Yeah there are definitely rules that say we can use them, but currently as written only as Allied Detachments, lest you pursue the AoD FOC comments from above. A bunch of new books coming out don't really invalidate that, since it's sort of an "ask your opponent" type thing anyway.

 

http://i.imgur.com/WJNLN8n.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/xHCiWcE.jpg

 

Etc.

Yeah there are definitely rules that say we can use them, but currently as written only as Allied Detachments, lest you pursue the AoD FOC comments from above. A bunch of new books coming out don't really invalidate that, since it's sort of an "ask your opponent" type thing anyway.

the real problem is FW's "we do something! oh it gets delayed" - Chaos Daemons were initially (a few years back) planned for Tempest - that got postponed for Underground War/Shadow Crusade which was originally planned to be the book after Tempest - but that book got postponed for after Angelis and Mars now, ... although we should get the daemons rules now with Angelis, so the waiting isn't that long anymore. 

 

Samus and Corbax were done for the Calth dilogy - but their rules never got printed 'cause they were moved to the second Calth/SC book. 

 

Edit: And actually i wouldn't be surprised if they just say: use C: CD's with the following additional warlord traits/special rules/units/characters.

 

Yeah there are definitely rules that say we can use them, but currently as written only as Allied Detachments, lest you pursue the AoD FOC comments from above. A bunch of new books coming out don't really invalidate that, since it's sort of an "ask your opponent" type thing anyway.

the real problem is FW's "we do something! oh it gets delayed" - Chaos Daemons were initially (a few years back) planned for Tempest - that got postponed for Underground War/Shadow Crusade which was originally planned to be the book after Tempest - but that book got postponed for after Angelis and Mars now, ... although we should get the daemons rules now with Angelis, so the waiting isn't that long anymore. 

 

Samus and Corbax were done for the Calth dilogy - but their rules never got printed 'cause they were moved to the second Calth/SC book. 

 

Edit: And actually i wouldn't be surprised if they just say: use C: CD's with the following additional warlord traits/special rules/units/characters.

 

 

That would make sense, and require minimal work on their part. I guess arguments could be made about balance and such, but the army is there already. Gimme gimme gimme!

 

 

Yeah there are definitely rules that say we can use them, but currently as written only as Allied Detachments, lest you pursue the AoD FOC comments from above. A bunch of new books coming out don't really invalidate that, since it's sort of an "ask your opponent" type thing anyway.

the real problem is FW's "we do something! oh it gets delayed" - Chaos Daemons were initially (a few years back) planned for Tempest - that got postponed for Underground War/Shadow Crusade which was originally planned to be the book after Tempest - but that book got postponed for after Angelis and Mars now, ... although we should get the daemons rules now with Angelis, so the waiting isn't that long anymore. 

 

Samus and Corbax were done for the Calth dilogy - but their rules never got printed 'cause they were moved to the second Calth/SC book. 

 

Edit: And actually i wouldn't be surprised if they just say: use C: CD's with the following additional warlord traits/special rules/units/characters.

 

 

That would make sense, and require minimal work on their part. I guess arguments could be made about balance and such, but the army is there already. Gimme gimme gimme!

 

the army is already there and already used ^^ a bloodletter in 30k = a bloodletter in 40k .... only difference may be that a bloodletter during the shadow crusade could be buffed via the ruinstorm, but that could be done with a warlord trait or a change to warpstorm tables ^^

 

also:

 

http://i.imgur.com/WJNLN8n.jpg

Note how it says may ally with forces - both traitors or chaos daemons - iirc that means you can use Daemons as primary detachment with a Cult army as allies if you want so. Again, keep in mind the book was written with the second one in mind already ^^

Ah, interesting! I just read through it super fast and saw the word "ally" and mentally replaced it with allied detachments. Huzzah!

 

Honestly I don't think I'd use more than an AD's worth of Daemons units, though it's nice to have the option to play around. Sold all my Daemons except for Khorne stuff so I don't really think I can cheese anyone if I wanted to. Fury of the Legion alone will kill annihilate any unit I'd use.

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