Daemons CAD possible in 30k?

[Ishagu]

I was under the impression Daemons were only usable as allies to Word Bearers, but Samus and Corbax could be a HQ for the army?

[Khornestar]

I was under the impression Daemons were only usable as allies to Word Bearers, but Samus and Corbax could be a HQ for the army?

 

Not only WB, but Militia/Cults as well using 2 specific provenances.

[Hesh Kadesh]

I'm reading Tempest. What rules allow me to use Daemons in Age of Darkness?

 

Atia, I get it, it's the whole "inclusive" thing, going on, where "sure come on and play". I get it. I really do. It's nice and friendly, and lets people play it. The rules don't actually support you using Chaos Daemons outside of the exceptions as noted for the special rule "From Beyond" for the Dark Brethren Rite of War, "Harbinger of Chaos" special rule for High Chaplain Erebus and Kor Phaeron, and "Binder of Souls" special rule for Zardu Layak.

 

There is mention of Ithraca in the Calth campaign during phase 1, stating that extra Campaign Victory points are available for a traitor force that has Chaos Daemons as allies (only available as above). Chaos Daemons is mentioned in Legendary Mission "Death of Truth".

 

Corbax Utterblight and Samus are Experimental rules only. 

 

And then above. "may ally with Chaos Daemons counted as Fellow Warriors and vice versa". In reference to allies.

 

Book 5, or Tempest, as you said I should read, states that the rules for Battles in the Age of Darkness take precedence over the 40K rulebook in certain area's - which includes reference to Detachments. So, no Combined Arms Detachments. (Look at thread title). Allies are mentioned to use the matrix, with the additional inclusion of above being the one exception to the rule. But no mention of Chaos Daemons without them being included as allies. Unlike actual factions as being included as per the faction chart, Chaos Daemons are not. Yet.

 

Also, Book 5 explicitly calls out that Malefic Psychic Powers are not available unless called out in their entry, so no Daemon Summon Spam either.

 

The rules also "allow" (in the manner of "it doesn't say no") you to have Loyalist Chaos Daemons, in the same way as you can have Traitor Tau, or even Loyalist 40K Space Marine variants, or Loyalist Black Legion/Crimson Slaughter. Because that's essentially what you're saying.  What about those Traitor Grey Knights?

 

I'm not saying that you CAN'T field Daemons if that's what you want to do. Feel free. But rather that they are yet to be properly included and integrated within the rules except as noted above.

[Atia]

 

 

The rules also "allow" (in the manner of "it doesn't say no") you to have Loyalist Chaos Daemons, in the same way as you can have Traitor Tau, or even Loyalist 40K Space Marine variants, or Loyalist Black Legion/Crimson Slaughter. Because that's essentially what you're saying.  What about those Traitor Grey Knights?

what xD? now you are laying words in my mouth^^

 

 

 

Atia, I get it, it's the whole "inclusive" thing, going on, where "sure come on and play". I get it. I really do. It's nice and friendly, and lets people play it. The rules don't actually support you using Chaos Daemons outside of the exceptions as noted for the special rule "From Beyond" for the Dark Brethren Rite of War, "Harbinger of Chaos" special rule for High Chaplain Erebus and Kor Phaeron, and "Binder of Souls" special rule for Zardu Layak.

either read the cult & militia army list, or the bit linked by venomlust already? there it says you can use the cult force as allies for chaos daemons.

 

 

Corbax Utterblight and Samus are Experimental rules only. 

 

Because the book which should have included their rules (and should have been released instead of Retribution originally) got postponed? When was the last time FW radically changed rules they published via their website besides additional wargear options?

 

 

 

And then above. "may ally with Chaos Daemons counted as Fellow Warriors and vice versa". In reference to allies.

Again, unlike the Word Bearers rules entry, it says armies, not primary detachment. It says exactly the same wording for the Legiones Astartes and other AoD forces who must be traitors. It says the following two rules apply as an addition to the normal allies chart - so it adds the Daemons?

 

 

 

Unlike actual factions as being included as per the faction chart, Chaos Daemons are not. Yet.

Because they can only allie themselfs with two armies who needs to achieve certain things before do so? Wouldn't make sense to add them to an allies chart if they couldn't allie with anyone there ^^

[Khornestar]

And though I wouldn't call it capable of spamming, the Rogue Psyker at least has access to Malefic so can give it a shot.

[Ishagu]

Daemons are mentioned in some of the books, but they are never given an army list or a proper guide on how to make a primary detachment out of them.

Now, I'm not saying Id refuse to play someone fielding them with my 30k Ultras, but Forgeworld really need to outline their army beyond that of using their codex for allies purposes....

[Hesh Kadesh]

Let's agree to disagree. You have a different understanding of the rules than I do. Neither have I put words in your mouth, can you explain?

 

You cannot use CAD. That's established.

 

If we were to take those quoted rules, the only time that you can run Chaos Daemons as a Primary Detachment is when they're allied to Militia Cults. The rules aren't in a useable state to explicitly call out to a satisfactory standard that Chaos Daemons are available in Age of Darkness except as allies, and most explicitly, as a Chaos Daemon Allied Detachment to a Word Bearer Primary Detachment.

 

But you're happy to call book Diving within an army list that's not even its own (given notoriously unreliable FW editing) to find a half referenced quote to an allied detachment and a pair of non-published experimental PDF likely ripped straight from the entry allowing them (again, allowing for notoriously poor FW editing) that is kept alongside outdated PDF's that have no purpose to be up there (6th edition rules for crying out loud).

 

There is also the case within the 2 Daemons that it references "if Chaos Daemons are taken as a Primary Detachment". While the intention is there, if we're being so pernickity to prove that they can be taken, then I can be equally pernickity and say that there's nothing actually allowing you to take them.

 

As this ends in no-one really caring or winning, shall we go to the case that no-one really cares, just do what every one does anyway when they want to play a non-Legion/Militia/Mechanicum list; and see if your opponent is willing to play.

[Atia]

 

You cannot use CAD. That's established.

 

yeah =) i think thats not really the topic anymore :)

 

 

 

 

There is also the case within the 2 Daemons that it references "if Chaos Daemons are taken as a Primary Detachment". While the intention is there, if we're being so pernickity to prove that they can be taken, then I can be equally pernickity and say that there's nothing actually allowing you to take them.

The rules for both are stating that you can use them as HQ choices for a Codex: Chaos Daemons army used as primary detachment for HH games - and that has nothing to do with other documents on that site, neither is the argument "its not in a physical book" valid as they were planned but got delayed, so still use their pdf rules instead (who aren't placeholders ^^)

 

 

 

Neither have I put words in your mouth, can you explain?

implying that i would play with Tau or Grey Knights in 30k .... they werent there. Daemons on the other side ... ;).

 

Daemons are intended to be used in 30k games, as they are, with Codex: Chaos Daemons (atleast as allies). You can't deny that^^

 

 

 

As this ends in no-one really caring or winning, shall we go to the case that no-one really cares, just do what every one does anyway when they want to play a non-Legion/Militia/Mechanicum list; and see if your opponent is willing to play.

Of course we can ^.^