Want Feedback on two Chaos Marine Chapter Ideas

[Inquisitor-Ren]

Hello, my brothers and sisters of Bolter and Chainsword!

 

I am considering two concepts for a Chaos Marine force. Both essentially are the same idea: a fraction of one of the Loyalist Chapters with degenerate Gene Sees (Wulfen, Black Rage, Red Thirst) find a calling to Chaos.

 

Firstly, I introduce to you the Hellhound Marines. A fraction of Space Wolves who have become Wulfen, and have chosen to become servants of Chaos to satiate their predatory appetites for war and violence. Their leader, Elder Hrothgar, wears a Chaos Terminator armor with a Wolf Priest helm.

 

Secondly, the other concept is the Sanguine Demons. Similar to the Hellhounds, they are a fraction of Blood Angels who have conceited to the Red Thirst and have made themselves subservient to the Ruinous Powers. The further corruption by Chaos makes them appear more like vampires from old Terran myth. They would utilize Chaos Marine parts, mixed with some elements of the vampire models from Warhammer Fantasy.

[Teetengee]

both sound interesting, but I would wait for some of the more detail oriented folks here in the liber to check out the fluff minutia

[AndrewInOZ]

sounds good.. i seem to recall seeing in one of the GW magazines a photo of a Space Wolf that was a follower of Khorne ( think he had a Khorne emblem on his chest) & holding one of the khorne demon swords & laying at his feet was a Loyalist Space Wolf with his chest ripped out

[Dizzyeye01]

Both ideas seem decent, one of the biggest questions you'll need to answer for both of these concepts is why. Why did these Blood Angels give in to the Red Thirst? Were they tired of fighting it? Were they tricked? If you can answer that question then you're truely on track :)

[Erasus]

The main problem with the Wulfen chapter, (not including any details from the new War Zone Fenris campaign) is that the Wulfen are super anti-chaos. The reason the Space Wolves are seen as one of the hardest to corrupt is that the 'beast' side of them born from the canis helix rails against Chaos. There are examples of chaotic Wolves but they are all in their normal state. I mean the actual Wulfen resisted Chaos for 10,000 years IN THE EYE. So Wulfen would be a no go. Space Wolves are ok though.

 

As for the Red Thirst chapter, it could be explained away with a civil war. Chapter naturally has high numbers turning to the Red Thirst, like the Flesh Tearers and Flesh Eaters, but as the Chapter tries to contain them they break free. Usually only Chaplains can control them due to the hypnotherapy they receive as recruits, so maybe a Chaplain gets the Thirst but retains enough sanity to keep control of the horde. The berserkers run rampant slaying all in their path, driven on by the words of the traitor Chaplain. Could have more and more marines turn as the slaughter ensues. Just an idea

[Lysimachus]

Yup, Erasus makes a good point about the SW, turning into a Wulfen is thought to actually be the Canis Helix way of protecting the Marine from Chaos. Kinda like how a bodies white blood cell production goes into overdrive when it catches a bug (I think, I know next to nothing about biology!)

 

The BA Vampire one could work very well, though I'd say traditional Vampires tend to be in better control of themselves rather than berserk monsters? Maybe that's a way in though, perhaps they fell because they found it preferable to control the Red Thirst by not controlling it, just giving in to it whenever they felt like it. Maybe they even started off trying to justify it - draining a thousand innocent citizens to death every few days seems (to them) to be pretty small fry if it keeps a whole Chapter operating efficiently and under full control. Maybe word gets out that they've murdered part of a population they were supposed to save (though probably keep the details of how they actually did it to a minimum) and they have to go on the run, end up renegades and eventually turn to Chaos?

[Erasus]

Yeah totally forgot about the Vampire elements

I have an idea I'm willing to abandon and leave here (due to a complete lack of motivation in favour of other works), my Blood Revenants were vampire-ish blood angel renegades, who drained their subjects to maintain control over their Thirst.

They also had a feature lifted from the Underworld films where there is an elder Council that take turns to rule, with the others placed in sus-an membranes and when woken again are fed the blood of the ruling Chapter Master, using their Omophaegea (spelling was a guess) to assimilate the memories within the blood so they are up to date when they take over.

Had a paint scheme of light black with dark red shoulder pads and chest plates, all robes/capes/tabards were crimson.

Weren't khornate, undertook raids in a similar fashion to the Dark Eldar, so that their 'livestock' was kept stocked up. I always imagined them like a cross between the Dark Eldar and the Volkihar Clan from Dawnguard Skyrim.

All yours to chop apart and take elements at will.

[Conn Eremon]

I'd say go for the Space Wolves. Whatever purity their bestial flaw might lend them would logically be an imperfect one. There are Chaos Wolves, therefore they can be corrupted by Chaos. You want to field a Chaos Marine army using the new Wulfen models? Be my guest.

 

There are a number of rationalizations one may use, from a splinter of the 13th Great Company that failed the test of endurance and purity to a Wolf Lord who leads his band to damnation, chaotic mutations playing hell with their gene-seed and corrupting their Wulfen state into something wholly daemonic.

[Teetengee]

I'd say go for the Space Wolves. Whatever purity their bestial flaw might lend them would logically be an imperfect one. There are Chaos Wolves, therefore they can be corrupted by Chaos. You want to field a Chaos Marine army using the new Wulfen models? Be my guest.

 

There are a number of rationalizations one may use, from a splinter of the 13th Great Company that failed the test of endurance and purity to a Wolf Lord who leads his band to damnation, chaotic mutations playing hell with their gene-seed and corrupting their Wulfen state into something wholly daemonic.

Alternatively, you could just enslave them... If those options don't pique your fancy.

[Tenebris]

Point 1: 

 

The Wulfen genetic deviancy results in a higher resistance to the baleful influence of the Warp, therefore to the ability of Chaos to corrupt the space marines afflicted by this deviancy. This is the reason why the Wulfen were able to survive in the Eye of Terror relatively unscathed.

 

Point 2:

 

There is exactly one formation which is made from fallen and corrupted Space Wolves, the Skyrar's Dark Wolves. Their scheme is a light blue/black and grey. A precedent therefore exists in the lore but it is not a precedent which supports "fallen" Wulfen.

 

Point 3:

 

Chaos is the sandbox of 40k and with a suitable explanation almost everything is viable. I understand the pull of the new Wulfen and the lure of the new Space Wolves rules and as much as it pains me they offer a playstyle which was once typical of the Chaos Space Marines with its many tricks and nasty melee. You "can" justify a traitor Space Wolves formation but keep in mind that the Space Wolves had only one successor chapter which was lost/destroyed/euthanized which means that if you go for this concept your marines did originate as pack members of the Space Wolves chapter.  

 

Point 4:

 

There is mention of several traitor Blood Angels and Khorne seems to have a powerful pull on the psyche of the sons of Sanguinius. I recall a vicious Flesh Tearer marine from one of the Khârn's audiodramas, so also here, a precedent exists. In all honesty I find the Blood Angels and their scions a far more logical choice for the eventual corruption by Chaos. They are flawed beings and Chaos is always able to exploit this in its favor. 

 

Point 5:

 

This is a very subjective point. I understand the pull of Space Wolves and the Blood Angels, I also understand the charm of werewolves and vampires, but in both cases I would tread VERY carefully. Add a quality too much or renege a flaw too less and your characters and therefore Chapter will fall in the pit of "special snowflakedom" which will make them not an awesome concept but parodies. There is a fine line you walk here and I would counsel to think very hard before committing the words to the paper and later on to the plastic. 

[Teetengee]

Point 5 is particularly important.

However, the liber is here to help with that, so just be prepared for those sorts of comments when you do commit to paper, and then you can come up with something really good after some review if it is originally out of whack.

[DaBoiKyknos]

Fluff expertise aside, I think while both of your ideas are okay, their are basically quite similar.

Each plays on one individual, well known chapter/legion flaw.

I wouldn`t do both, I think it would be a little boring in the wider sense.

 

An explanation would be quite important, why such a chapter fell to their inherent vices,

meaning why they "decided" to live for slaughter and blood-lust.

Have they been wronged by others or are they maybe traumatized by one particular distressing war?

 

If they just gave in to their own psychopatic tendencies which exists in every human and marine, without

some good qualities or tragic "fallen hero" qualities, they wouldn`t make good characters.

So I wouldn`t make them totally evil.