Assault Marines

[MakoBoy88]

Sorry if this is covered elsewhere, but, assuming I am playing a Vanilla Legion for Space Wolves until the new book,

 

I would like to try and make at least one unit of Asdault Marines work.

 

How do you make them work. 2 units of 20? 2 units of 10 buffed up?

[Theredknight]

I usually round out at 15, with 3 power weapons in it.

The sarge has a combat shield that's about it!

[Slips]

I'd Prefer 10 w/ 2 Power Weapons & Sarge with Combat Shield, Artificer Armor and an Axe/Fist (making him a 2+/5++ in CC)

[Hesh Kadesh]

10 with 3 Power Weapons, maybe Artificer and a Combat Shield on the Sergeant, job done. Leave anything heavier to the big guns. Works very well with Night Lords and Sons of Horus, thanks to outnumbering bonuses, which may be more appropriate and keep with the Power creep.

[MakoBoy88]

Do 10 survive long enough to make a difference though?

 

I am thinking 2 lots of 15 with 3 power weapons and AA

 

Then some recon as extra troops.

 

This is for my wolves obviously.

[Theredknight]

That's the only reason I take 15, you lose a third to attrition at least.

Iv had it where the whole squad was targeted by medusas and decimated before, leaving only the sarge and eidolon alive!!

[MakoBoy88]

Well hopefully medusas will be dead before they strike. But who knows.

[Hesh Kadesh]

You can reserve and turn 3 charge after de-meching. Run SoH or NL's and get bonuses galore also.

 

Also, Night Lords get a 5+ Cover Save now in the first turn.

[Charlo]

BA make them worth (and mandatory....) to run.

 

5+ cover save on the first turn and when they get into combat, bonuses to wound and initiative. Plus the pistols can cause pinning just in case you get lucky.

 

You can go big and anchor the squads with Primus Medicae for at worst a 5+ save and at best a 2+ followed by 5+ (or nothing. Damn Typhons).

[Theredknight]

Well hopefully medusas will be dead before they strike. But who knows.

This was t1.. Nuncio vox by one guy, no scatter with 2 medusas, also I got hammered other stuff, but that's one game. Tbh I'd rather sacrifice those than some other units I had on the table.

 

Usually il get to jump up for a t2 /3 charge. But still lose 5 in the process.

 

I guess this is one reason why they are hopefully going to be cheaper.

 

Also 20 is too unwieldy, 15 is ok though I found.

[MakoBoy88]

I would love them to be cheaper, but won't hold my breath.

 

The alternative is to drop 1 squad and pick up a Tac squad in Rhino. But feels less Wolf like

[Terminus]

Cost reduction was mentioned several times during the Weekender, so I have my fingers crossed for the next few months. If they do, I'm buying 30 Mk2s with those sweet retro jetpacks and building me an Emperor's Children army.  I like 15 as a number for big units, any more is unwieldy, 10 or less and I rather have a rhino than jump packs.  I'm super bummed about the assault marine rite, but oh well.

 

10 with 3 Power Weapons, maybe Artificer and a Combat Shield on the Sergeant, job done. Leave anything heavier to the big guns. Works very well with Night Lords and Sons of Horus, thanks to outnumbering bonuses, which may be more appropriate and keep with the Power creep.

The Sons of Horus thing I don't feel is as huge a deal because you usually want your power weapons to be axes or fists, which do not benefit from Merciless Fighters. Plus Sons have a way better jump pack unit with the Reavers.

 

Night Lords get the chainglaive instead of power swords, which gives them effectively an AP3 power axe at initiative that can rend for AP2. With the Talent for Murder, they are hitting you on 3s (2s with Raptors), and with the chainglaives are also wounding on 2s.

 

Emperor's Children assault marines in the Kakophoni rite are WS5 and I5 which is nice, but you gotta pay for the shriekers. The sarge can take a phoenix lance and combat shield though, which is a pretty potent combo (WS5 S5 I6 AP2 in a challenge on the charge).

[Ishagu]

Ooh possible point reduction?

This is very interesting.

 

Will they be doing a new LCAL book?

[Slips]

Yes on both counts!

[Theredknight]

Apparently Alan Bligh had sent off the new LACAL equivalent before the weekender so maybe 2/3 months after their print run. They are pretty accurate with that. So maybe an open day April

[Charlo]

Gooooood shout! Let's hope.

[TemujinZero]

Drop Assault Vanguard sounded totally OP when it was partially described at the weekender, then it looked pretty useless in practice once we saw it in full, but I've been playing around with it and trying to make it viable.  How does this sound?

 

Forcing snapshots within 12" seems weak when your opponent can just reverse a little then blow your 3+ squad away with ease, but how about overwhelming them with massed turn 1 drops to box them in and create a huge area of nope for shooting.  I was thinking something like 3 Assault Squads with melta bombs and a few power weapons, 3 Dreadnoughts in pods (I'd go for a Leviathan and 2 Cortus Contemptors), and 2 killy terminator units in Dreadclaws.  This gives you three 24" diameter spheres of shooting denial, three assault squads and three dreads all on turn 1.  If deployment and scattering are favourable you should be able to limit your opponents manoeuvrability enough to all but shut down their shooting phase, and a mass turn 2 assault with 3 squads entirely equipped with melta bombs and 3 suitably equipped dreads should be able to inflict a lot of damage.  The remaining Dreadclaws could then deal with anything that escaped the carnage.

 

Downsides are that nothing is stopping an opponent with lots of strong assault units from charging you the turn after you drop, and the whole strategy is very dependent on deployment, so there's a good chance that a clever opponent will be able to deploy in such a way as to escape the trap.  There's also a rules issue in that dreadnought pods have the immobile rule, which suggests that they can't be taken in this rite (though Last of the Serrated Sun suggests that this is not intended).  You could always swap the dreads for combi-weapon terminators in dreadclaws and deploy turn 1 instead of holding out for the turn 2 assault.

 

I think this might be worth a shot, and will obviously be more attractive if Assault Squads get a points drop.

[Charlo]

Works for me. You just need to not half ass the rite if you're taking it imo.

[Terminus]

The diameters are larger than 24" since its measures from the individual members. Get a good run move after your drop and you can cover a large swath of table.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Worth noting interceptor is unaffected by Snap Shotting, which only triggers following turn.

 

Also HnR for turn 2 only.

 

Not sure the costs are worth it.

[Terminus]

A large part depends on whether Immobile means drop pods, which would prevent you from bringing the dreadnoughts that would increase drop zone saturation and make the rite workable. If you can't, and instead have to use FA dreadclaws (that you need for your other units) for your dreads, the rite is very bad. 

 

The hit and run is even worse. It's not for turn 2, it's only for YOUR assault phase during turn 2, so basically when you don't want to hit and run (when your opponent is about to get a turn), you can... when you DO want to hit and run (when it's your turn next), you can't.  It's as dumb and terrible as Curze's hit and run rules that only work when he charges.

[TompiQ]

The new Word Bearers Rite fo War has the same restriction (no immobile units) while at the same time forcing you to take Gal Vorbak in Legion Drop Pods as compulsory troops. At least to me that shows Drop Pods aren'rt regarded as immobile in that regard.

[Lord Abaia]

Here's an idea. Take the Recon Company RoW as Night Lords. Take a recon squad to meet the requirement, and two assault squads for your remaining troops. Stick a jump pack vigilator in each one to give stealth and scout. Scout move everything to get turn one shrouded. Turn one you get 5+ cover, stealth, and shrouded on everything for a 2+ cover save. You also get to reroll for first turn and for seize the initiative. You can't assault turn one because you scout moved, but you can get as close as you want and ride out one turn of shooting with your save, or force your opponent to charge and then murder him with your +1 to hit and to wound because you outnumber them. Bonus if they fail the fear test, now you're hitting on 2s.

 

Do you think AMs would be worth their points in that list?

[Slips]

After their expected future points adjustment? Sure. Right now? Only if you're playing at a high enough points limit where the cost of assault marines isn't much of an issue.

[Arac]

Assault Vanguard is the perfect fluffy RoW for a WB force of The Unspeaking chapter. Will try it at least, even without new rules.

At the moment I have equipped the with power axe and AA on sergeant and two handflamers in a 15 man unit. With the RoW I will split into 2*10 and play one squad with old serge and one handflamer and two power weapons (likely axes, since I have the awesome axes from phalanx warder kit in the bit box). The other squad with heavy chainsword (rule of cool), 1 handflamer and another two power weapons. Both will have melta bombs.