Baalite Culture & the BAs

[DarKnight]

Just wanted to throw around some ideas with you guys since I don't think it's been described in detail canonically, at least until their FW book is released. What do you guys think about Baalite (Baalian maybe?) culture and how do you guys think it's been absorbed into the Blood Angel martial tradition.

[SM1981]

From what I understand, the people of baal / it's moons, are nomadic tribesliving in radiation saturated deserts eeking out a hand to mouth existence... So culture is probably not som5thing they see a lot of.

 

If anything I imagine that the blood angels would view the gift of artisan traits, and the lifespan to perfect and and appreciate those skills, as one of the greatest gifts they have received from the emporor / primarch / chapter. And in turn why they then make that such a central part of the chapters culture.

 

Just my two pennies worth.

[Spagunk]

If you've seen a Mad Maxx movie, pretty much this. However the tribe of blood probably has a higher level of culture since they are more tied to the BA directly. I wouldn't expect too much of it though since it may not be technologically possible for their culture to extend towards arts: they are still in survivor mode.

[Terrahawk]

Yeah, one of the reasons why Blood Angels are so awesome is their homeworld. Mad Max & Fallout all the way! 

 

I tend to agree that perhaps the culture of the Blood Angels is not very heavily influenced by the "culture" of their homeworld. I'd think the stark contrast between the two cultures and the actual metamorphosis plays a bigger part however. Like it is said in the background material that as an irradiated and malformed runt can be transformed into a handsome and towering Angel of Death, likewise things can be changed for the better in the minds of the Blood Angels. :)

[Xenith]

Baalite tribes have a history of savagery and of consuming human flesh.

 

None of this has been carried over to the Blood Angels.

[Leonaides]

Nope. Baalite tribes dont practice canibalism, the ones who did turned into degenerate mutant tribes and are constantly attacking the true humans.

[Arkangilos]

Indeed. It actually made a point that Sanguinius destroyed those that did. 

 

I think the Tribes of the Blood probably had a little bit of culture, and I'd definitely think the ones that followed Sanguinius did. I'm wanting to say they didn't all live nomadic lives, that some of them holed up in the mountain side with Sanguinius and what not back in the day. That was on Baal Secundus, so it wasn't taken over by their Fortress.

[Leonaides]

Nomadic tribes also have culture... it doesnt need to be portable, and it doesnt need to be static. Consider aboriginal rock art, prehistoric european rock art, tribal oral histories/teaching by rote/preservation of knowledge by story for example. Stories such as little red riding hood have been traced back many thousands of years and have spread with tribal colonisation into cultures with no historic contact.

[SM1981]

I've heard they worship Kelis as a fertility goddess, because her milkshake brings all the boys to the yard...

 

[Xenith]

Yes, don't you see the irony in Sanguinius destroying the tribes of 'impure' mutant cannibals, when he himself is an inhuman mutant that thirsts for blood, as do his sons?

 

The darkness of Baal lies within every Blood Angel.

[Arkangilos]

Yes, don't you see the irony in Sanguinius destroying the tribes of 'impure' mutant cannibals, when he himself is an inhuman mutant that thirsts for blood, as do his sons?

 

The darkness of Baal lies within every Blood Angel.

True, but the difference was that the "impure" mutant cannibals went out of their way to destroy his family. In return he fought them back.

 

Also, if you note, when the BA fall to the Red Thirst while he is alive, he kills them, too.

[Darnok]

Yes, don't you see the irony in Sanguinius destroying the tribes of 'impure' mutant cannibals, when he himself is an inhuman mutant that thirsts for blood, as do his sons?

 

The darkness of Baal lies within every Blood Angel.

 

Where is it mentioned that Sanguinius had a thirst for blood? Only "present time" Blood Angels are known for that, but as far as I know this only started after Sanguinius death.

[Arkangilos]

 

 

Yes, don't you see the irony in Sanguinius destroying the tribes of 'impure' mutant cannibals, when he himself is an inhuman mutant that thirsts for blood, as do his sons?

 

The darkness of Baal lies within every Blood Angel.

Where is it mentioned that Sanguinius had a thirst for blood? Only "present time" Blood Angels are known for that, but as far as I know this only started after Sanguinius death.

No, the red thirst was around before even the Horus Heresy, but was hidden from even most of the BA.

[Xenith]

 

 

 

Yes, don't you see the irony in Sanguinius destroying the tribes of 'impure' mutant cannibals, when he himself is an inhuman mutant that thirsts for blood, as do his sons?

 

The darkness of Baal lies within every Blood Angel.

Where is it mentioned that Sanguinius had a thirst for blood? Only "present time" Blood Angels are known for that, but as far as I know this only started after Sanguinius death.

No, the red thirst was around before even the Horus Heresy, but was hidden from even most of the BA.

All BA, even Sanguinius, suffered from The Red Thirst. Sanguinius (usually) had total control over it, and heresy marines could largely control it to increase their combat prowess, and ignore the side effects of it. As the bloodline gets weaker, more marines fall prey to its call.

I'll find the reference later.

 

 

EDIT:

"When the blood-rage overtook him, Sanguinius was indeed terrible to behold – his mighty Primarch powers awoke to fullness and a nimbus of light played about his head."

 

Current codex.

[Arkangilos]

 

 

 

 

Yes, don't you see the irony in Sanguinius destroying the tribes of 'impure' mutant cannibals, when he himself is an inhuman mutant that thirsts for blood, as do his sons?

 

The darkness of Baal lies within every Blood Angel.

Where is it mentioned that Sanguinius had a thirst for blood? Only "present time" Blood Angels are known for that, but as far as I know this only started after Sanguinius death.

No, the red thirst was around before even the Horus Heresy, but was hidden from even most of the BA.

All BA, even Sanguinius, suffered from The Red Thirst. Sanguinius (usually) had total control over it, and heresy marines could largely control it to increase their combat prowess, and ignore the side effects of it. As the bloodline gets weaker, more marines fall prey to its call.

I'll find the reference later.

 

 

EDIT:

"When the blood-rage overtook him, Sanguinius was indeed terrible to behold – his mighty Primarch powers awoke to fullness and a nimbus of light played about his head."

 

Current codex.

It was also in the third index astartes.

[Nova_Dew]

We know from the novels that Gold was banned from use other then Sanguinius and the Sanguary Guard (no note as to if Sanguinius would allow it's use as a reward), We also know that the Blood Angels wore no decorations other then the fist chapter (yay forgeworld for ignoring that /sarcasm) that had black trim and small talismans in black stone in the shape of blood drops that were hold overs from the Blood tribe, I think the first chapter are all Baal natives.

[Arkangilos]

We also know that the Blood Angels wore no decorations other then the fist chapter (yay forgeworld for ignoring that /sarcasm)

You mean thank Forgeworld, right? The more FW does to cancel out Swallows Blood Angel Crap and bring it more in line with the way Blood Angels have always been depicted, the better.

 

And what novel says gold was banned and that the first company was the only one that could decorate their armor? The one I remember said Roldoran was the most plain of the Blood Angels, and Fifth Company ran around with special knives hooked to them.

[b1soul]

Can't wait for FW to do Baalite/Baalian "culture" justice

 

If anything, their totally f*cked up homeworld should really affect their philosophy

[Xenith]

Can't wait for FW to do Baalite/Baalian "culture" justice

 

If anything, their totally f*cked up homeworld should really affect their philosophy

 

It does.

 

"Sanguinius also indoctrinated his followers with a strong belief that things can be changed for the better. After all, the process of transforming a scabby scavenger into a tall, proud and handsome warrior is living proof of the tennet that courage, refinemant and nobility can be shaped from the crudest of clay."

 

They lived on a planet where the water is a viable threat to your continued existence. They want to leave it as far behind as possible, immerse themselves in the culture that their radiation blasted rock sorely lacked.

[b1soul]

I really really wish that another authour gets to write BA...I feel that Swallow's treatment of them is entirely bland and vanilla

 

I can't even say Swallow's BA are red Ultramaribes because the Ultramarines actually have personality now

[exetus]

I'd have to imagine that the BA probably take their inspiration from the transformation but also, since they no longer need fear most of the perils of Baal, probably do a very good job of "catching up" on the arts mostly denied their people as scavengers and nomads.  What the nomadic tribes cannot keep as permanent record in statues, monuments, etc., I would like to think the Blood Angels then represent with their own works of art.  It says, very clearly, that they hold the arts in high regard and spend their lives perfecting the various forms of art; art often reflects society and since the nomads have limited means of preserving this, I can see the BA doing so for them.

 

As far as nomadic cultures, the spoken/recited/sung word is usually the strongest form of art amongst them; I see the BA making grand tapestries, paintings, ballads, and sculptures of these things, as well as murals and adornments to their armor (since it's mentioned that it is some of the most ornate amongst the Imperium).

 

Also, nowhere does it say that Sanguinius is affected by a thirst for blood or human flesh, but he is aware of the Flaw.  Maybe I'm wrong about it saying somewhere he thirsted for blood, but "Fear to Tread" is our best reference for the origins of the Flaw and I don't recall it being in there anywhere.  Being incensed and flying into a blood rage, simply means being possessed from head-to-toe by your anger, channeling your vision and being into satisfying that rage; in this case, he was possessed by his anger that they would threaten his family and so thought to annihilate them utterly.  So I can see the Rage part being part of it, but it never descended or deteriorated in Sanguinius to the Red Thirst, did it?  Nowhere is he grabbing mutants and drinking their blood or consuming them.  I have not seen a single instance where Sanguinius is anything of a blood drinking/thirsty vampire; that quote does not say Sanguinius is such a beast, but one with terrible power when his fury is awakened.

 

I know where the reference is... it specifically deals with the Blood Angel Alotros of the 111th Company, but one of a growing number to have fallen.  It also mentions that it only sets upon those who are in the throes of battle instead of the sudden onset that can occur in the present-day Blood Angels.  It actually alludes to the Black Rage as the primary cause (which keeps with the established canon of the Black Rage being the Flaw and the Red Thirst a symptom/eventuality thereof).

[Frater Antodeniel]

On a more scientific tone :

 

The Red Thirst can be considered as mutation of the Omophagea organ specific to the Blood Angels Legion Gene-seeds. (Also, a while the BA fluff doesn't explain it, we can speculate that the Thirst impact other important Blood Related organs, such as the Haemastamen and the Larraman, those interactions explaining the difficulty, near impossibility to cure the Red Thirst, for it would require full knowledge of the Gene-seed creation process to undo it.)

 

The Black Rage, on other hand is both a Gene-seed error and a more "human" process. This way the Black Rage is the result of numerous Post Traumatic Shocks endured by the Blood Angels Astartes through their life of warfare, those Shocks enhanced by the psychic imprint left by their Primarch Sanguinius' death in the Gene-seed atavic memory. Plus, given numerous novels "exemples", the Red Thirst also impact on the Black Rage, since the first lead to a need for battle, that will only lead to further Traumatic Shocks that will only trigger a little more the sleeping atavic memory....

 

Finally, some "mutation" or "cultural tendencies" in the Aspirants might also increase those Curses.

 

------------------------------------

 

Edit : Altrough, one Very Interesting question, given the recent BA background provided by the recent FW HH book, is......Have the Blood Angels existed before the recovering of his Primarch or not ?

 

The recent information left this fact shrouded, while it is of utmost importance. (Personally, the Fact that the Legion existed before its Primarch recovering would explain a lot about Nassir Amit, and his Company that would become a chapter after the Heresy...)

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

I believe all legions existed before the primarchs were recovered.

[Arkangilos]

It has always been the case that legions existed before the primarchs were found, always.

 

And why would that have anything to do with anything about Amit?

[Frater Antodeniel]

It has always been the case that legions existed before the primarchs were found, always.

 

And why would that have anything to do with anything about Amit?

 

In the Recent HH book, we learned that the Blood Angels implantation process was a hard/dangerous one, through which many aspirants died....leading to believing, that should a Blood Angels Legion Pre-Primarch would have been a very little one, most of the like of the Emperor Children. Such little contigencie would have possess a strong brotherhood spirit.....this leading to the only Known proof that is the divergent Blood Angels Captain, Nassir Amit, and his Company....

 

For the Nassir Amit specific case, the possible fact that he may be a Terran Born is of upmost importance, for it would lead to the reason behind him and his company having a very marked "unique spirit" inside the Blood Angels Legion. The Chain reaction and history traceback would be also very interresting.

 

If Nassir Amit is Terran Born => He may have lead or be part of the leadership of the young and small Blood Angels Legion => he may possess Pre-Primarch background => This Background & his personnal (+ company) terran origins may explain many things about the "uniqueness" surrounding the Character and his Company => The whole explaining most of the current Flesh Tearers chapter early and still present background.

 

(And recently, studiying at some Terrian Tribal cultures, i reconcidered that the Flesh Tearers Symbol, can also represent a tribal version of the Sun (One of the strongest symbol that exist trough mankind history, mostly in its earlier days), surronded by "teeth" that would possess some predator significations, or the burning of the Sun itself....finally, the Blood Tear having the symbolism of unity, and common Blood.)

 

In the end, if Nassir was a Terran Born, and the newly founded Flesh Tearers mostly composed of hardened Blood Angels terran born, it would clear many thing about the Flesh Tearers Background, as i would also explain why the Flesh Tearers supposetely diverge so greatly from the other Blood Angels chapters.