Breachers vs destroyers in War Convocation

[matrent89]

Topic says it all was wanting people's thoughts on both units, I'm thinking of running one squad of each

[Kilofix]

All Destroyers, Grav or Plasma.

 

Edit - Give your Vanguards the Arc.

[Aethyran]

Gravs all the way, unless you get two units of breachers to deepstrike...but that's it.

[SevenPlagues]

Also supportive of Destroyers, and Destroyers with Grav specifically. Aside from mass infantry (and we have other tools for that), I cannot think of a target type that the Grav won't kill twice as well as the Plasma version. Grav Destroyers absolutely wreck face against some of the most challenging opponents we face, like Wraithknights, Riptides, Stormsurges, etc. I humbly suggest deploying them via Drop Pod, as this means they are safe if you fail to get first turn, and also means they cannot be outmaneuvered. I take two squads of 3 in Pods and for the first time since the model came out, don't have a very hard time with Wraithknights. Grav Destroyers are excellent.

Breachers armed with Haywire guns also have some value, but in the context of the War Convocation, that value is significantly lessened because we have a Haywire-spam source in our Vanguard and Rangers. I'd rather take Grav from the one unit in our force that can take Grav, and focus my Haywire in the infantry. For what it's worth, if I am facing a potent superheavy vehicle like a Typhon or a Knight, I'll reserve my Grav Destroyers regularly and put an Arc Rifle x3/Arc Pistol x1 Vanguard squad in a Drop Pod. It might not kill a 6 HP SHV, but it can sure damage it.

[MoGuy]

 

 

I cannot think of a target type that the Grav won't kill twice as well as the Plasma version

 

How about Orks, Guardsmen, most Eldar and Tyranid units? I actually like the Plasmadestroyers. Yes, we do have the Vanguard who outright annihilate everything with T3 or 5+. However, most of the opponent's Anti-Infanterie-Weapons will kill them, before they can reach their targets. Against horde-armies the Vanguard will of course kill something, however, unless one spams said Vanguard, we still need something to kill those hordes. Plasmadestroyers do that very well and since e.g. Orks like to load up their Trukks with Infanterie, the Destroyers can kill those vehicles or assist in taking out the units that spill out. 

 

Against low toughness/armoursave armies I find the Plasmadestroyers to be more useful, as they can kill infanterie, vehicles and even tougher units. Gravdestroyers could only kill the elite units or maybe glance a vehicle. 

 

However, this does not mean that I dislike the Gravdestroyers. I have only 4 games with the Ad Mech under my belt and all of those were against Eldar, Dark Eldar or Orks, so Grav wasn't really worth bringing. When I will face Space Marines etc. in the future, I will give the Grav-Ones a shot. 

[SevenPlagues]

That was the mass infantry I was alluding to, if you read my full sentence ;)

My group frowns somewhat on list tailoring so I try to design take-all-comers lists, hence my preference for Grav over Plasma. Plasma Destroyers are powerful - don't get me wrong - but they fill a role that is ably filled by others, and by taking them with Plasma you forfeit the opportunity to take them with Grav.

[Tyriks]

That was the mass infantry I was alluding to, if you read my full sentence

My group frowns somewhat on list tailoring so I try to design take-all-comers lists, hence my preference for Grav over Plasma. Plasma Destroyers are powerful - don't get me wrong - but they fill a role that is ably filled by others, and by taking them with Plasma you forfeit the opportunity to take them with Grav.

That seems like a weird thing to be against...

[MoGuy]

Agreed. Is your group really against taking stuff to hurt the opponents army? If we would want to play a game on Sunday and you tell me "Alright, I want to play 1500 points and I will bring Space Marines. What do you bring?". Then I will tell you that I will bring Ad Mech or my Necrons etc. And of course I would build a list with units that are ment to hurt Space Marines and you would build your list to hurt my stuff. I thought that was the normal procedure...? 

[Aethyran]

From the sounds of it, get the War Convocation, it isnt a list tailored for any specific faction. Just good against all!

Although my club is pretty cool, everyone is alright with me bringing the War Convocation...well till I table them in the first Turn Kappa 

[Redtoof]

Agreed. Is your group really against taking stuff to hurt the opponents army? If we would want to play a game on Sunday and you tell me "Alright, I want to play 1500 points and I will bring Space Marines. What do you bring?". Then I will tell you that I will bring Ad Mech or my Necrons etc. And of course I would build a list with units that are ment to hurt Space Marines and you would build your list to hurt my stuff. I thought that was the normal procedure...?

 

Not everywhere. In my experience most people will build lists that are either based around an all comers tournament list they are working in, or are based around the units they want to use because they are cool. In both cases, they will not change their army much for their opponent.

 

To get back to the original point. What is the deal with Breachers? Does no one take them? they seem like one of those all-rounder units that isn't great at anything.

[MoGuy]

 

 

What is the deal with Breachers? Does no one take them? they seem like one of those all-rounder units that isn't great at anything. 

 

The thing with the breachers is that they have that useless claw. I think they would be much better with two shooty options! Having a anti-vehicle gun AND a anti-vehicle claw is just redundant. Why would one charge into the enemy lines to kill stuff, when said stuff can also be killed much safer from afar. 

 

However, I do think that Breachers are better than Destroyers when it comes to taking down vehicles. The thing is - we already have so much units that have anti-vehicle guns that we don't really need the added firepower of the Breachers, thus people take the Destroyers. 

 

At least that is my pov. Feel free to correct me guys. :)

[Master Avoghai]

 

 

 

I cannot think of a target type that the Grav won't kill twice as well as the Plasma version

 

How about Orks, Guardsmen, most Eldar and Tyranid units? I actually like the Plasmadestroyers. Yes, we do have the Vanguard who outright annihilate everything with T3 or 5+. However, most of the opponent's Anti-Infanterie-Weapons will kill them, before they can reach their targets. Against horde-armies the Vanguard will of course kill something, however, unless one spams said Vanguard, we still need something to kill those hordes. Plasmadestroyers do that very well and since e.g. Orks like to load up their Trukks with Infanterie, the Destroyers can kill those vehicles or assist in taking out the units that spill out. 

 

Against low toughness/armoursave armies I find the Plasmadestroyers to be more useful, as they can kill infanterie, vehicles and even tougher units. Gravdestroyers could only kill the elite units or maybe glance a vehicle. 

 

However, this does not mean that I dislike the Gravdestroyers. I have only 4 games with the Ad Mech under my belt and all of those were against Eldar, Dark Eldar or Orks, so Grav wasn't really worth bringing. When I will face Space Marines etc. in the future, I will give the Grav-Ones a shot.

Like the OP specified, the choices must be done regarding a war convocation => including an imperial knight.

 

And actually, I myself include a knight with a rapid fire battle cannon which is much more efficient against hordes AND much more resilient than the vanguard. I also managed to include a kastellan maniple and you have the compulsory infiltrators with flechette blasters...

 

It's more than enough to deal with numbers. So finally, what do I lack? Multiple shoots units with AP2 that can deal with riptides and tanks. And the grav cannons fulfill this role perfectly. I thought about plasma but the scatter + the blast won't make that much hits and can be limitated against the said targets.