(Black) Serpents - IA

[Bloodspeaker]

Black Serpents

Warcry - 

Founding - Unknown, (13th presumed) 

Primarch - Unknown 

Sucessor of - Unknown (N/A) 

Homeworld - Hasraphet Prime, Segmentum Pacificus

Chapter Master - Grandfather Usaphais 

Allegiance - Imperium of Mankind

Heraldry - Sand yellow (primary) Black (secondary)

 

 

 

History

   The truth about the founding of the Black Serpents has been clouded by deception and lies seemingly since their inception. Early in the chapters known history a zealous member of the Inquisition learned the Secret being kept by the chapters librarians, also known as Keepers. That inquisitor raised an army that included members of other space marine chapters and laid siege to the chapters unnamed former homeworld. Although the chapter was loyal to the Emperor and his Imperium, the Secret was terrible enough that the inquisitor sought the extermination of the entire chapter. The Black Serpents were victorious but were forced to bury the Secret. Since then they have managed to systematically destroy every record of the Shameful War and convince the Imperium that they are of a later founding than they truly are. Over time the Black Serpents themselves slowly forgotten what the Secret was until only the Keepers, whose psychic powers are believed to trigger dormant genetic memories.

 

   Since the end of the 37th millennium relationships between the Black Serpents and the more hard-line factions of the Imperium have been tense due to the chapters relatively large number of psykers. There are those within the Inquisition and Ministorum that feel that the chapter should be investigated or purged as a haven of witches. These tensions have led to outright battle on several occasions, most notably during the Achillean Crusade during early M38, when puritanical Warmaster of the crusade, Warmaster Klayopatrus, refused to allow the chapter to take part in the crusade. The Achillean Crusade was intended to claim a sector of space on the edges of the Segmentum Obscurus, near to the Black Serpents home-world. The Black Serpents respected the Warmasters wishes until a large raiding party of Dark Eldar managed to ambush the Warmasters personal forces. Were it not for the timely actions of several companies of Black Serpents it is probable that the Warmaster would have been captured or killed. However, instead of gratitude, once the Dark Eldar had been driven off the Warmaster ordered his forces to drive the Black Serpents out of his warzone by any means necessary. The Black Serpents were forced to make an armed withdrawal while fighting against other Imperial forces. From that time on the Black Serpents have been wary of serving on battle fronts with other imperial forces and have done so only during times of great need.

 

   The Black Serpents themselves bare the Imperiums disdain for them with stony silence, frequently refusing to communicate more than necessary.

This has led to both tragic accidents and surprising victories, as the chapter has developed a habit of secreting some of it's forces deep behind enemy lines. Forces deployed in this manner are typically under orders to wait for the main assault to occur, before striking like a viper, aiming to cripple some key element of the enemies forces. In one famous instance two squads of Black Serpents were in deep cover on a world in revolt against the Imperium. The main force of allied Black Serpents and Imperial Guards begun their assault, only to be greeted minutes later at the gates of the city by Watcher Pharek and the brothers of the Chessuk tribes 2nd and 3rd tactical squads. In front of them, already cowed into submission, marched the leaders of the revolution. The Imperial Guard colonel was stunned speechless as the captives were handed over to him and the space marines left, all without saying a word to him.

 

   Recently much of the chapters strength has become embroiled in a campaign known as the Ionian Scourging. Adeptus Arbites on one of the major hive worlds of the Ionian Sector in the Segmentum Pacificus , Ithika, uncovered evidence of a subversive and possibly heretic cult operating deep within their world. Upon further investigation they uncovered evidence that this was in fact a Genestealer cult. It had apparently been active for quite some time, as the cult had become widely accepted within Ithikas underbelly and had even gained a small following amongst the worlds ruling elite. Soon after the Arbites managed to contact the Imperium the world broke into open revolt. Due to the heavy traffic between the Ithikon system and many other nearby worlds it is likely that the Genestealer cult has managed to spread itself over other worlds in the sector. The Black Serpents have dispatched seven tribes, led by Grandfather Usaphais himself, to aid in quelling the rebellion and seeking out and destroying the foul xenos cult, wherever it may be found. Many imperial scholars are worried that the presence of the cult might mean that a splinter of a Tyranid hive fleet may be on it's way to the Ithikon system. As such all of the Imperial forces in the sector have been placed on high alert. Should a splinter fleet indeed be inbound to the Ithikon system it would represent one of the furthest Tyranid incursions across the galaxy since their initial assault on the Segmentum Ultima.

 

Gene-Seed

   The gene-seed of the Black Serpents in known to be prone to several minor mutations, the most notable of which are forked tongues. It has also been noticed that space marines from this chapter have an even more potent healing factor than that of other members of the adeptus astartes. Lacerations have been known to heal in minutes and a day after being shot Black Serpents show no sign of ever having being injured. Battle-brothers from this chapter do not seem to need to rest at all. This is also believed to be connected to their healing capabilities. The Adeptus Mechanicus has confimed that the chapters remarkable regenerative powers are a mutation, not the result of some kind of latent psychic ability as had previously been speculated.

   The gene-seed of the Black Serpents has also been noted to have a triggering effect on latent psychic ability. As a result the chapter has roughly one third more Librarians, known as Keepers, as most other space marine chapters. The psykers of the Black Serpents are not as powerful as those of other chapters, the strongest of them only reaching the equivalent of Epistolary rank, however they have learned how to combine their powers to produce stronger effects than they otherwise could. Because of this it is not uncommon to see a coven of three Black Serpent Keepers on the battlefield at once. Usually one of the three will be stronger than the other two, but this is not always the case.

The chapters genetic anomalies have made it hard to determine who their parent chapter is, therefore it is not known what the Black Serpents genetic heritage is. Cultural links have been made between the Black Serpents and the White Scars, but even this is nothing more than speculation.

 

Recruitment 

   Black Serpents recruit almost exclusively from the desert tribes of their homeworld. Recruits are chosen from the victors of the competitions held by the tribes. The potential recruits are taken before a council of elders who will then judge which of the recruits are worthy to join the Black Serpents.

   These recruits must then make the arduous journey to chapters monastery. This ritual is know as 'the Passage'. Many do not survive. Those that do will be implanted with gene-seed of the Black Serpents and placed in a sarcophagus. This done because a mutation in the gene-seed makes the transformation incredibly painful. The sarcophagus induces a protective coma, since the pain alone would probably kill the recruit otherwise.

   Upon emerging the recruit is considered an initiate of the chapter. He is physically a space marine but must still master his bodies new abilities. Initiates will serve alongside their more experienced brethren, under the guidance of a veteran sergeant.

 

Organization 

   Although the Black Serpents do not used the titles and company markings laid out in the Codex Astartes, the underlying structure of their organisation is nevertheless that of a Codex chapter. Due to the chapters preferences for ambush and fast strike tactics, they have a relatively large number of assault troops and rhinos APC's.

   Most of the Black Serpents naming traditions have been kept from the nomadic tribes of their homeworld, Hasraphet Prime. The companies are known as tribes and are named in honour of the first Father (captain) of each tribe. Upon takng the role of 'Father' a space marine of the Black Serpents will take the tribes name as his own, for instance Father Sarept of the Sareptis tribe. The chapter commander is known as by the honourific 'Grandfather'. Librarians are known as Keepers, apothecaries are known as Purifiers, chaplains as Watchers and techmarines as Makers. 

   The Black Serpents Keepers hold themselves separate from their brothers. The reasons they give the other Black Serpents are not the real reasons for this separation however. In truth the chapter gene-seed has another effect when implanted within psykers. It gives them ancestral memories which reveal the Black Serpents true origins. The chapter gene-seed comes from the last survivors of the destroyed 2nd legion of the legendary First Founding. Where this secret to become know the chapter would most certainly be hunted to extinction. Rather than share this terrible knowledge and increase the risk of someone finding out, the Keepers choose to hide the Secret, even from their brother-marines.

 

Colour Info

Colour - Name - Hex code

Yellow - Zamesi Desert - C68400

Black - Abaddon Black - 000000

Bone - Ushabti Bone - EFD9A8

Metal - Runelord Brass or Ironbreaker - 735A21 or 7B737B

[Bloodspeaker]

Not totally sure i like the name. I wanted to keep the Serpents/Snake theme to it though. I'm also aiming for egyptian sounding names, mostly just because i'm bored of romanized/gothic names most chapters seem to use. Feedback is, as always appreciated. :)

 

Oh, and something else i keep meaning to mention. I'm not really into the modelling/painting side of the hobby. I just like writing the lore. If anyone does want to paint any of the chapters i write about, feel free. I'd appreciate it if there could be pictures though. :)

[Olis]

A couple of things for now:

 

Mid-m32 a zealous inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus 

 

Slight issue with this detail: The Ordo Hereticus was created in the 36th Millennium. 

 

learned the Secret being kept by the chapter, that it was created using gene-seed from the Purged 2nd legion. That inquisitor raised an army and laid siege to the chapters unnamed former homeworld. Although the chapter was loyal to the Emperor and his Imperium, the Secret was terrible enough that the inquisitor still sought the extermination of the entire chapter. Only the Keepers still know what happened in that pointless war. The Black Serpents were victorious but were forced to bury the Secret. Since then they have managed to systematically destroy every record of the Shameful War and convince the Imperium that they are of a later founding than they truly are. Over time the Black Serpents themselves slowly forgot what the Secret was until only the Keepers, with their psychically triggered memories, still remembered.

 

Does the Chapter have to be descended from a lost legion? With this detail, we are focusing on what they are, not who they are. First and foremost, really, is that an IA should elucidate the reader on the character and mien of the Chapter. There's also the small fact that the lost legions are, well, lost. What exactly would be the justification of making this Chapter from gene-seed of the purged?

[Bloodspeaker]

@ Olis

Thanks for the note about the Ordo Hereticus. I wasn't aware that it was founded so late. I was under the impression that the different orders of the Inquisition where created when the Inquisition itself was founded. I've corrected that section of text to fix this oversight.

 

As for the bit about the lost legion...have to? No, it didn't really have to be there. But it is cool and could provide alot of character as I go further with writing up this chapter. As it stands it isn't known to most of the chapter and those that do know don't talk about it. This chapter is not the 2nd legion. Their gene-seed has been involved somehow (haven't got to that bit yet). Fairly sure i remember something from Games Workshop themselves about the 2 lost legions being a chance for fan created Primarchs and first founding chapters. I feel like i should mention that i don't intend to make this anything more than a 'dirty little secret' kind of story line. I'm not looking to Mary Sue the chapter.

[Bloodspeaker]

Added second section to History

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Wow, well great minds must think alike. These guys colour wise are very similar to my old Blazing Sons (when I used to post years ago)! It's a good look, I like it.

 

Now, down to the info you've posted.

 

I'll not echo anything said by Olis, as he's right on the money and I needn't be an echo.

 

Name wise, Black Serpents is fine, solid name. So long as the name of the chapter reflects who the chapter is, it's usually a solid pick.

 

 

The gene-seed of the Black Serpents in known to be prone to several minor mutations, the most notable of which are forked tongues. It has also been noticed that space marines from this chapter have an even more potent healing factor than that of other members of the adeptus astartes. Lacerations have been known to heal in minutes and a day after being shot Black Serpents show no sign of ever having being injured. Battle-brothers from this chapter do not seem to need to rest at all. This is also believed to be connected to their healing capabilities. The Adeptus Mechanicus has confimed that the chapters remarkable regenerative powers are a mutation, not the result of some kind of latent psychic ability as had previously been speculated.

 

 

 Emphasis mine. What does this add to your chapter? You're adding bits and pieces to make them feel unique rather than making these decisions as reflective of who this chapter is. So far all I'm getting from this is a superior gene-seed to most other chapters in the Adeptus Astartes. This isn't even a cursed founding chapter, this is just flat out superior gene work.

 

If this is a descendant of one of the lost legions, they would have originally been created by the Emperor as with all the other legions. Did they have this superior healing factor then? If so, why didn't this get used in all the other legions upon their creation? If it's due to a mutation over the last few millennia, what has caused it? Are you also telling me their gene-seed tithe to the Adeptus Mechanicus hasn't been flagged as being totally different in gene-coding to literally every other selection of first founding gene-seed on file? Remember that all the other Founding legions have gene-seed on file and are also regularly checked. So far as I'm aware there are very few chapters whose gene-seed has mutated like this over time, at least not this significantly. It would be down to severe, protracted radiation (as shown in the Salamanders) or the mutating effects of the warp (lets just take the 13th Company as a good example of this).

 

That they have it on file, and are just accepting it, when it would either match a legion that was supposed to have been purged for whatever reason, or it wouldn't match anyone elses and draw suspicion that way. 

 

Eh, I could keep going with this train of thought, but there's no point.

 

You've chosen something which is extremely hard to work with and doesn't add much in terms of telling us who the chapter is, who are these marines? What are their characteristics? What are their personalities? Why do they do what they do? How do they do it? These are better questions to ask rather than what founding or geneseed they have.

 

The gene-seed of the Black Serpents has also been noted to have a triggering effect on latent psychic ability. As a result the chapter has roughly three times as many Librarians, known as Keepers, as most other space marine chapters. The psykers of the Black Serpents are not as powerful as those of other chapters, however they have learned how to combine their powers to produce stronger effects than they otherwise could. Because of this it is not uncommon to see a coven of three Black Serpent Keepers on the battlefield at once.

The chapters genetic anomalies have made it hard to determine who their parent chapter is, therefore it is not known what the Black Serpents genetic heritage is. Cultural links have been made between the Black Serpents and the White Scars, but even this is nothing more than speculation.

 

 

I see you're going for more of a Blood Ravens route. That's fine, but I'd be careful. Mutations of the psychic measure are much more closely monitored and harshly judged (were the Soul Drinkers also psychically predisposed or am I having a senior moment?).

 

Again I don't think it's a great path to take on having everything being dictated by gene-seed. Why not simply have a Librarium led chapter? There are other chapters out there who select all their company captains and other officers from the Librarium.

 

It would be far more interesting, and it'd tell me far more about your chapter if you told us why they organize themselves this way, what influenced it and how it affects the culture of the chapter itself. It also allows more character building. Do the 'normal' battle brothers resent their Psychic lords? Or are they unquestioningly loyal, leading more to a Thousand Sons route of life on a knife edge with the Imperium?

 

All of these questions of character allow us to see far more of your chapter than just it's gene-legacy.

 

Relying on the geneseed is a crutch.

 

If you're happy with your chapter to be as it is, then go for it. I just think you've got far more potential to create a truly interesting chapter than what's currently present.

 

I'll be blunt.

 

Reading about geneseed and it's effects is boring.

 

Reading about your chapters trials and tribulations, it's heroes, and it's villains, it's conflicts - even potentially within itself, these are exciting to read about!

 

Push that envelope!

[Bloodspeaker]

@Sojurn

 

First off, calm down. I've hardly even begun with this chapter. When it comes to their gene-seed being flagged for being different from that of the other first founding legions there are hundreds of chapters out there with no idea who they are descended from. If the Imperium has such great genetic technology, why can it tell those chapters 'your white scars' or 'you are Iron Hands'?. The Imperium at large DOES NOT KNOW that the Black Serpents have gene-seed from a 1st founding chapter. In this respect they are the same as, potentially, hundreds of other chapters, in that the Imperium doesn't know whose genetic lineage this chapter comes from.

 

I'll concede that the healing factor thing doesn't really add anything. Most likely i will end up removing that bit. I'm leaving it for now in case I can think of a way to do something with it. It's not really much more of a game changer than the Space Wolves superior senses or the Blood Angels extremely long life-span. At the very least i might have to tone it down a bit.

 

Now, this whole psychic overlords thing. Psykers who cannot control their powers do not get to join the Librarium. They get killed. Yes, the Black Serpents have more than the usual number of psykers but they are weaker than the average. Strong enough for the Librarium, but not as powerful as the Librarians of the Ultramarines, for example. The Imperium would be monitoring the chapter closely, true. But if they found nothing wrong they would have no reason to censure the Black Serpents Librarians anymore than they would those of the Ultramarines. In would thing an entire chapter being commanded by Librarians, that is to say a 1000 space marine strong army with a psyker for a leader, would make the Imperium alot more nervous than 10 extra, weaker than normal librarians being watched over by a whole chapter. 

[Olis]

As for the bit about the lost legion...have to? No, it didn't really have to be there. But it is cool and could provide alot of character as I go further with writing up this chapter. As it stands it isn't known to most of the chapter and those that do know don't talk about it. This chapter is not the 2nd legion. Their gene-seed has been involved somehow (haven't got to that bit yet). Fairly sure i remember something from Games Workshop themselves about the 2 lost legions being a chance for fan created Primarchs and first founding chapters. I feel like i should mention that i don't intend to make this anything more than a 'dirty little secret' kind of story line. I'm not looking to Mary Sue the chapter.

 

If we are going down the 'dirty little secret' route, I suggest keeping that secret from the reader. It makes for a better story if you hint at where the gene-seed came from but don't actually tell us. :)

[Bloodspeaker]

@ Olis

You mean in the same way that Games Workshop only hinted at the Dark Angels dirty little secret?  ;)

 

I only wrote what i have here within the last 12 hours or so. I might end up doing a revised version where there are hints, but nothing stated. At the moment i'm more interested in getting the ideas down and getting you guys to help me iron out the kinks i don't want in there.

[Erasus]

Hello!

First off I would like to congratulate you for creating and posting what you already have, takes courage to submit your imaginary brain child before those who will likely shred it, so kudos!

However now comes some shredding and some constructive criticism, I don't want you to give up on this, I am like yourself a lore man, and I will do my best to iron out the kinks

[Minigiant]

Not totally sure i like the name. I wanted to keep the Serpents/Snake theme to it though. I'm also aiming for egyptian sounding names, mostly just because i'm bored of romanized/gothic names most chapters seem to use. Feedback is, as always appreciated.

Oh, and something else i keep meaning to mention. I'm not really into the modelling/painting side of the hobby. I just like writing the lore. If anyone does want to paint any of the chapters i write about, feel free. I'd appreciate it if there could be pictures though.

As a massive Kill Bill fan I cannot pass the opportunity to suggest Black Mambas

[Machine God]

 

Organization 

   Although the Black Serpents do not used the titles and company markings laid out in the Codex Astartes, the underlying structure of their organisation is nevertheless that of a Codex chapter. Run to the chapters preferances for ambush and fast strike tactics, they have a relatively large number of assault troops and rhinos APC's. The companies are known as tribes and are named in honour of the first Father (captain) of each tribe. Upon takng the role of 'Father' a space marine of the Black Serpents will take the tribes name as his own, for instance Father Sarept of the Sareptis tribe. The chapter commander is known as by the honourific 'Grandfather'. Librarians are known as Keepers, apothecaries are known as Purifiers and chaplains as Watchers. 

   The Black Serpents Keepers hold themselves separate from their brothers. The reasons they give the other Black Serpents are not the real reasons for this separation however. In truth the chapter gene-seed has another effect when implanted within psykers. It gives them ancestral memories which reveal the Black Serpents true origins. The chapter gene-seed comes from the last survivors of the destroyed 2nd legion of the legendary First Founding. Where this secret to become know the chapter would most certainly be hunted to extinction. Rather than share this terrible knowledge and increase the risk of someone finding out, the Keepers choose to hide the Secret, even from their brother-marines.

@Bloodspeaker - A very nice IA and well thought out! By which title are Techmarines known as?

 

What was your inspiration for the regeneration, I'm not aware of serpents holding this ability, could be wrong? So why did you include it? It is a big deal. There are Chapters who can take a beating, the Sons of Antaeus being the best example although the Ordos are questioning this and relating it to the Death Guard . . . anyway there's also the rest part, now the Cataspelan Node is responsible for the "no need to rest" however the longest this has been recorded to go is nearly two weeks. Is this organ mutated? If this is reliant on the healing ability then it would drain the body's energy reserves to do it and produce a lot of thermal heat, both would be hazardous to the Serpent and I recommend against this. If you NEED a restless marine, use the Cataspelan Node.

@Erasus - I believe the OP was referencing the abilities of Lizards re-growing lost limbs, although Snakes don't have the ability.

[Bloodspeaker]

@Erasus

 

I don't know how the Inquisitor knew. I'm not totally sure i want the chapter to have known. Maybe somebody within the chapter blabbed. Unlikely i know. I'll have to think about that point a bit. The sarcophagi seemed like a nice tie-in to the whole Egyptian theme. I also liked the way it fitted with the symbolism behind the snake and i seem to remember Blood Angels having a similar gimmick in their chapters fluff. Might be wrong about that. I would suppose that the sarcophagus would have an automedic built in. I didn't really think i'd have to go into that kind of detail though. 

As far as the Egyptian theme being a bit limited, we have sarcophagi, snakes and a chapter master who is literally named for a pharaoh. I suppose i could cover the in scarabs and say they live in a pyramid if you want. Might be a bit much given how little of their history has actually been written so far.

Now, the librarians. The only reason the Imperium has to feel in any way uneasy about this chapter is because they have a few extra librarians. The comparison to the Ultramarines was meant to demonstrate that, to the Imperium, the Black Serpent librarians are as trust worthy as the Ultramarines librarians in that they are just librarians. I have just noticed that I said 'three times as many' which i'm putting down to being tired. I meant 'one third more'. I will be correcting the oversight.

With regards to the relative strength of the Black Serpents keepers compared to a standard librarians, i would imagine that at psyker would need a minimum amount of power to ever become a librarian at all. This bottom level wouldn't change much from chapter to chapter. Where keepers differ is that their strongest are weaker than the strongest from most other chapters. Meaning that the strongest keepers only reach the power of an epistolary. I admit i will need to explore the whole Keeper bit and clarify a few things. 

 

@Scion of Ferrus

 

Actually i was referring to heraldry. The heraldry blog i found the image i wanted to use for a chapter symbol also said that snakes/serpents in heraldry stand for...

- Wisdom or knowledge, defiance, fertility and renewal

- associated with the sun and storms

The regeneration thing was supposed to be something to do with renewal. 

 

Also i completely forgot about techmarines. Makers maybe. I deliberately want to keep the titles very simple. I'll write upthe reasons as i think of them.

 

Sorry if i came across as grouchy.

[Erasus]

No worries, even if you weren't tired it's understandable to get defensive over your creation, it's almost like people calling your ideas stupid. We're not by the way, but when it comes to lore, as you well know, some fit in better than others.

 

Ok so I looked into the sarcophagi thing, the Blood Angels DO keep their recruits in a sarcophagi, now in standard GW fashion it breaks with the known canon lore, they mention life support nodes so I guess it could be passed off as including auto surgeons. There are many organs that are implanted, let's assume they get the Black Carapace after the sarcophagi. It also mentions they then must undergo training in the 10th. Now you're right, you don't need to mention the auto surgeons, it was just a point I felt had to be brought up. You could mention that the cultured organs are then kept in canopic jars surrounding the sarcophagi until it's time to implant them. A little detail that could strengthen the theme.

 

Now for the theme I would recommend staying away from scarabs and such totems. The Thousand Sons have already claimed them, and while many Liber Chapters use themes already taken by official ones I personally feel it only weakens your own Chapter by reminding others of another.

 

However the Uraeus is, as far as I'm aware, up for grabs. I must admit I don't know much about pre-Heresy Thousand Sons but I've personally never seen it used. Not sure if you know but it is the sacred cobra that guards the sun god Ra, and was before that a symbol of regal authority. You could use the belief that the Chapter feels they take a similar position for the Emperor, guarding him from harm by slaying His enemies.

 

The reduction in librarians was a good choice in my opinion. Makes your Chapter less suspicious. Epistolaries are the highest ranking Librarians, they are the battlefield psykers. By saying your highest ranking are Epistolaries then they're not that different.

 

I'll let you work out the history and stuff in more detail before I bombard you with more questions. I hope these have been helpful and thought provoking

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

First off, calm down.

I didn't realize I wasn't calm! But sure, I'm always open to chilling out some more.

I've hardly even begun with this chapter.

Fair enough, but that's why I ask the questions I do, that's why people are pushing you answer specific criticism.

When it comes to their gene-seed being flagged for being different from that of the other first founding legions there are hundreds of chapters out there with no idea who they are descended from. If the Imperium has such great genetic technology, why can it tell those chapters 'your white scars' or 'you are Iron Hands'?. The Imperium at large DOES NOT KNOW that the Black Serpents have gene-seed from a 1st founding chapter. In this respect they are the same as, potentially, hundreds of other chapters, in that the Imperium doesn't know whose genetic lineage this chapter comes from.

It's a fair point. It is one of the things I don't like about the 'forgotten heritage' trope that Games Workshop uses in many of it's own creations. With the geneseed of all of the founding legions stored, and every tithe being tested against for purity, how can they not know what legion or primarch sired any particular chapter?

I still don't like messing with one of the Lost Legions, personally. But if you can make it work then I doff my hat to you sir.

[Bloodspeaker]

 

 

It's a fair point. It is one of the things I don't like about the 'forgotten heritage' trope that Games Workshop uses in many of it's own creations. With the geneseed of all of the founding legions stored, and every tithe being tested against for purity, how can they not know what legion or primarch sired any particular chapter?

 

I can only imagine it's due to 10,000 years of genetic drift or some BS like that lol. Besides, if you thrown in the corrupting influence of chaos and the general corruption and slow pace of things in the Imperial bureaucracy and it become alot easier to see how it might get tricky to identify a genetic heritage. 

 

I see their relationship to the 2nd legion as much like that of one of the 2nd founding chapters to their own 1st founding parents.