Minigiant Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Okay so I am going to try approach this like one of my university essays. Sections, bullet point it out, expand Origins of the Blackhawks *will be in black Context In the forests of Panam Captain [iNSERT NAME] of the Raven Guards 3nd company found himself more and more frequently conducting operations alongside the Militarum Tempestus regiment the 22nd Selena Leviathans. The 22nd Selena Leviathans gained significant amounts of acknowledgement and respect having made planetfall and conducted successful operations alongside the 2nd, 3rd and 5th Raven Guard companies. Alongside the Raven Guard 2nd Company in the forests of Panam, they were critical in successfully purging the region from Orks. The Leviathans regiment navigated themselves within close proximity of the last Ork stronghold, opening fire the Orks charged at them with all their might, the Leviathans nerve held, slowly withdrawing forces and luring the Orks from their high ground the Leviathans led the Orks right into the Adeptus Astartes, who had patiently waited for the opportune moment to strike. Captain [iNSERT NAME] observed that these humans fought with discipline, nobility and profound loyalty to the Raven Guard’s orders. It took little to convince his fellow Shadow Captains of the scions worth. As tribute to their sacrifice and actions, the 22nd Selena Leviathans were granted additional training alongside the Raven Guards 10th company. Founding Founded shortly before 991.M35 as part of the 21st Founding, the second largest founding in history, to defend the [NAME] sector and the [FORGEWORLD]. Captain [iNSERT NAME] of the Raven Guard was to be honoured leading the training cadre and become their first Chapter Master. Upon his appointment rumour suggests that he requested a handful of the best 22nd Selena Leviathans be incorporated into the recruitment. Now official records of this event occurring have unfortunately been lost or destroyed with many other important pieces of information during the Age of Apostasy. The Blackhawks have refrained from commenting on such matters however on Selena the nobles boast that it was their Scions that were bestowed the honour and a distant family member is now a space marine. Outside of those rumours, nothing is confirmed, and the Chapter does not look as if they will comment soon. In their rituals the Blackhawks sometimes refer to the Sons of Panam, could they be the Leviathan brothers Homeworld Nearby to said Forgeworld Agri-world Planet name Kalagesi American first nation type people e.g Apache, Blackfeet, Cherokee etc Tribal History Not long after founding left near decimated by an Alpha legion led attack on said forge world Part of the curse? or were they cursed for recruiting scions? Had to conduct guerrilla war esq conflict to clear forge world and reclaim it Combat Doctrine After the occupation of [FORGEWORLD] and the successful eradication of any taint of chaos the severely depleted Blackhawks had to significantly alter their modus operandi and reduce the amount of campaigns and war they are able to undertake. [CHAPTER MASTER] vowed to never allow such casualties to become his chapter again and to hunt down and destroy the traitorous Alpha legion leader [AL NAME] and now only in the direst of circumstances will they fight at full company strength. Instead they now conduct significant recon and intelligence gathering in pursuit of the defence of [sTAR SYSTEM] and when valuable intelligence come to light, they will send an elite kill team to accomplish their objectives. They will also send out squads to compliment other imperial forces, the Skitarii from [FORGEWORLD] are the most privy of forces, considering the amount of assistance and supplies they provide the chapter. In battle the lessons and experience of the [FORGEWORLD] occupation has led them to diverge from the Codex Astartes, now extensive preparations are made before actually attacking a target, including using spies and corruption to weaken an enemy's resolve. Not only is an enemy attacked from every angle, but every attack is often coordinated to achieve the most destructive results. The Black hawks do not fight like any other Adeptus Astartes chapter, for their mere survival they have to avoid direct combat as much as possible, using subterfuge, infiltration, sabotage, brainwashing, and meticulous multi-year plans to destroy their enemies instead. Hit-and-run tactics seem to be preferred over close quarters fighting, the encouragement of independent thought within all levels of the Chapter means that it is not uncommon for combat methods to differ widely either when operating in isolation or in concert with each other. This independent spirit allows for the most appropriate application of resources and/or tactics for a given mission ranging from the use of warzone specific camouflage to ad hoc unit composition and even working with local forces to ensure success. Organisation Due to lack of numbers, most commonly seen in supplementing other imperial forces notably skitarii Similar in sense to the Mentor legion? Relatively independent companies (tribal homeworld aspect) Scout squads are used, when a scout is near ready to be promoted to a full brother, will be assigned to his squad as sniper to provide overwatch. Only when he has observed his new squad from a distance and in safety will he be promoted to full brother Geneseed The degeneration of the Raven Guard gene-seed means several of the unique organs of the Space Marines no longer works properly or no longer grow. Like the Raven Guard the Black Hawks do not have the Mucranoid or Betcher's Gland. However, they do not appear to have the same mutated Melanchromic Organ, their skin does not grow paler and their eyes do not darken. Now whether they have a completely different organ to the standard geneseed, they do not possess it or the alterations of the 21st founding changed the mutation, is yet known. Feel free to question those points, raise points of your own, but also if possible please suggest a solution Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Â Founded from a Raptors company that was on a winter/ice planet and led the local inhabitants in defeating X Â I think this bit will need a fair bit of refining. A Raptors offshoot is fair enough, although I'd probably advise making them a traditionally 'Founded' Chapter rather than one split off from it's parent Chapter. The training cadre could easily be Raptors and the new Chapter could be assigned to a Death World that happens to be an ice ball. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4315577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minigiant Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016   Founded from a Raptors company that was on a winter/ice planet and led the local inhabitants in defeating X  I think this bit will need a fair bit of refining. A Raptors offshoot is fair enough, although I'd probably advise making them a traditionally 'Founded' Chapter rather than one split off from it's parent Chapter. The training cadre could easily be Raptors and the new Chapter could be assigned to a Death World that happens to be an ice ball.  Hmm okay, think I maybe to combine the idea  A Raptors company that was winter training (Very reasonable marines imo) saves planet with local inhabitants help. Then train a chapter with a company from each nomadic tribe  I want the attack to represent "The great tragedy in Antarctican history occurred in 1403 B.C., at Mimosa, a seaport town of 90,000 on the southern shore." http://www.ralphrobertmoore.com/arc-history.html Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4315605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzyeye01 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 You could always have the Raptor company save said world then during a later found a training cadre is sent back to said world as they have seen first hand the potential of this world. Â Just a note on the winter training the raptors don't really need to be experts in it. The recruits themselves can be very adapt to winter fighting due to their upbringing. Â Best of both worlds I'd say. Also this idea of not being invisible but unseeable is quite interesting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4315644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 The concept is solid in it's backing information.  Only thing I'd say in response to them being a snowy based chapter, when also being reasonable marines is, despite where they draw their recruits from, why would they over specialize themselves when (being reasonable marines) they should be able to adapt equally to any threat and environment they come in to?  It's one of the reasons I'm personally not much of a fan of the concept of reasonable marines, because it levels everything out and removes a lot of the fun specializations and idiosyncrasies of a Space Marine chapter. Yes I know we have units today that are specialized in certain environments, but they're all trained as regular troopers first. You're essentially taking that system and turning it on it's head.  If the reasoning is good enough, fantastic, go for it! I just want to know why they'd change things up so much.  A Raptors company that was winter training (Very reasonable marines imo) saves planet with local inhabitants help  Ok so what I'd say in regards to this is, why exactly is this Raptors company training on this particular world? I'll assume this world isn't near their typical area of operation. Now my knowledge of the Raptors is sorely lacking. Are they a Codex adherent chapter? If so, wouldn't it be the 10th Company doing environmental training? Following this, what threat did they repel that the 10th Company was equipped to deal with?  If not, what other faction in 40k would want anything from an ice bound Death World? Are the people special? Is the world itself special in some way? Did it used to be an exodite world? Is there a sunken mystical artifact of some kind? What is here besides ice, snow and painful death?  Are the Raptors a fleet based chapter? If so, why would these guys want to have a homeworld, especially if trained by the Raptors? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4315647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minigiant Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 The concept is solid in it's backing information.  Only thing I'd say in response to them being a snowy based chapter, when also being reasonable marines is, despite where they draw their recruits from, why would they over specialize themselves when (being reasonable marines) they should be able to adapt equally to any threat and environment they come in to?   Now I am not thinking that they only fight in the snow, I am thinking of them like Raptors. Raptors are reasonable marines but specialise in Jungle Warfare because of their background. They then adapt their specialty to numerous environments    Ok so what I'd say in regards to this is, why exactly is this Raptors company training on this particular world? I'll assume this world isn't near their typical area of operation. Now my knowledge of the Raptors is sorely lacking. Are they a Codex adherent chapter? If so, wouldn't it be the 10th Company doing environmental training? Following this, what threat did they repel that the 10th Company was equipped to deal with?  If not, what other faction in 40k would want anything from an ice bound Death World? Are the people special? Is the world itself special in some way? Did it used to be an exodite world? Is there a sunken mystical artifact of some kind? What is here besides ice, snow and painful death?  Are the Raptors a fleet based chapter? If so, why would these guys want to have a homeworld, especially if trained by the Raptors?   Based on Dizzyeye's idea I am drop the training thing  I was thinking Dark Eldar slaving party  Raptors are not fleet based Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4315686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasus Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Hello! Â Firstly I would like to point out that the website linked is a fictional work. Just to ensure no one comes back at me over philosophical or historical statements about Nin, bus or Mimosa. Â How would Bus work when they wear helmets? Â I think you're going to have to be very creative to build a whole Chapter on the concept of nin, besides the "well he can't see you can he?" aspect. A cool concept, but it's a philosophical take on "if they can't see you, you haven't been seen" or in a less overly physical way "if you are not known, you do not exist". Expanding upon this as a militant Chapter ethos would be a tough one, I'm sure everyone here will help, but still. Â As to the why the planet needed defending, I'd go with xenos. Orks go places randomly due to the warp travel they undertake. Tyranids would want the bio material, so genestealers in the snow, although this depends on Founding date. Genestealers were earlier than Behemoth but not by a lot. Eldar would need a goal that the audience understands even if the Raptors don't, but their Dark cousins want slaves. Tau I will ignore. Any Chaos and there's usually a good reason to go there. For the battle that represents Mimosa it would need a population in the millions, I know the site claims 600,000 died over five days at Mimosa but to the 40k enemies that's an hours work, if their hearts aren't in it, or whatever they have. Also at Mimosa they understood the enemy were people, here they could be anything from horrifying xenos to insanity inducing daemons, so I don't see them being quite so gung-ho to attack them with basic tools. You could boil it down to its most basic element as a meat grinder. Ignoring the fact that at the Battle of Mimosa the enemy had seemingly endless ammunition, the locals pushed them back through tyranidesque tactics of swarming them. I'm hoping your locals are less insane. Â The winter specialisation is questionable, there are a million worlds that the Imperium holds and countless others they do not, I imagine only a small percentage are winters, some will be solid ice others will be rock, lava, glass, oil, gas, forest, crystal, grassland, oceanic, metallic and countless others including the usual and commonplace Hive layout. It seems to be a pointless specialisation to me. Especially when you consider that Astartes equipment negates the vast majority of environmental issues. By all means keep the snow, but don't send Raptors there to train. Â Snow hunters are a cool recruitment pool. Â The Founding needs some work, as stated by others it would difficult to justify, having the Raptors honoured and having a Chapter founded from them would be difficult too because up to the "present" the Raptors have been decimated several times, nearly wiped out to a man so they would the geneseed themselves. I would say that with the Nin concept your Chapter would better fit Raven Guard, who have a similar shadow ethos. Â I'm sorry it seems I've completely attempted to shoot down this concept. I just think it needs a whole rethink in the direction it wants to go or the where it begins. I've tried to offer suggestions where I could imagine them. Hoping the second round of questions and criticisms is far more constructive. Â Have you come up with a name or colour scheme yet? Â ++Merged posts++ Â Didn't see your latest post until after I posted mine, (can't believe it took me an hour to actually post that . . . ) Â Dark Eldar sound promising Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4315734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minigiant Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 I'm sorry it seems I've completely attempted to shoot down this concept. I just think it needs a whole rethink in the direction it wants to go or the where it begins. I've tried to offer suggestions where I could imagine them. Hoping the second round of questions and criticisms is far more constructive.  Have you come up with a name or colour scheme yet?  Nah its okay, you are right I havent really got anything to go on. May bin this idea to be honest  But for name I was thinking White Spectres (Without trying to stand for white supremacy). Then just use raptors Tundra camoflauge Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasus Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Just as long as they don't wear ghost-like sheets I think the supremacy thing won't be a problem. Others chapters have White in them, Scars, Consuls, Templars. Â You can still create a Chapter based on an icy world, due to the past predations of Dark Eldar. I just recommend leaving the stuff from that site behind Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minigiant Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 Just as long as they wear ghost-like sheets I think the supremacy thing won't be a problem. Others chapters have White in them, Scars, Consuls, Templars. Â You can still create a Chapter based on an icy world, due to the past predations of Dark Eldar. I just recommend leaving the stuff from that site behind I dunno any space marine background then. Â Given up on this idea, more fleeting that substantial Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I don't think you need to give up on the idea necessarily, so long as it's not down to the criticism provided that turned you off the idea. Â If nothing else friend, don't discard what you've gotten so far, just put the idea back on the... err..... idea shelf. Right. Â At least until you decide that you might like to revisit it, or even incorporate some parts or ideas for it into other works. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minigiant Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 I don't think you need to give up on the idea necessarily, so long as it's not down to the criticism provided that turned you off the idea. Â Â The criticism was great, highlighted a lot of important factors I had not considered. The questions asked however I have no answer for, cannot create a chapter when I cannot address factors that I believe are important Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minigiant Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 Idea  If they speak bus dialect of gothic then they have to forgo wearing helmets to communicate. As this would increase casualty rate in regular combat they have become more conservative (reasonable) to preserve brother lives. bus has the advantage of being able to communicate more silently and therefore ideally suited for stealth and infiltration Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasus Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 That could be an option, damn it I hate being that guy but, why would they not just speak High Gothic or the main dialect of Low Gothic in order to eliminate this weakness? Seeing as they're supposed to be reasonable. Especially when bus relies on the marines having visual contact with each other and being able to move enough to convey their meanings. Â The bus bit reminds me of the Eldar in Gav Thorpe's Path of the Eldar. The idea of body language being more heavily linked to meaning has been used in lots of books but this one is 40k so is more relevant. Â Ok I really don't want you to give up on this. I'm gonna help you build it. First I need to know why you want to build it. Â What made you think of this Antarctic fluff? Â Why do you like the idea of bus? Â What captures your imagination when you read about the Battle of Mimosa? Â If the Chapter resides on an ice planet it's understandable to have snow related Wargear. Maybe the Battle you want involved the Chapter when it was young, facing off against the dark Eldar you mentioned. However the Chapter's headstrong approach got many of them killed and so over time they adopted a more conservative method of warfare. They adopted battle cant similar to the White Scars in order to hide their communications in case the slavers were listening. This was supplemented with a sub dialect based on body language to further cover up the true meaning of dialogue. Thereby allowing the marines to communicate in the open but without being understood when they thought the dark Eldar were spying on them. The locals may have adapted this secretive form of language first, later adopted by the Chapter. By the end of the conflict the Chapter was running a shadow war against the superior armed Dark Eldar, hence why they took the name White Spectres to represent the image of a spectral spirit of vengeance striking from the white winds of blizzards to slay the hated Eldar. This form of combat was found to be effective against many other xenos such as orks. Â This is a start. You don't have to like it in fact feel free to totally destroy it and ignore it. But I'm hoping this offers a way out for your imagination and gets the creative juices flowing again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minigiant Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 Ok I really don't want you to give up on this. I'm gonna help you build it. First I need to know why you want to build it.  What made you think of this Antarctic fluff?  Why do you like the idea of bus?  What captures your imagination when you read about the Battle of Mimosa?   Well I have a massive Tau army set inside this massive campaign (Winter version of Taros in short) and they face off against 'Marines' and Valhallans. Now I have finished my Tau army I want to expand the Marines into something more substantial. Now I like the Raptors but I want my own DIY chapter so when I play them I dont feel as bad for using other armies chapter tactics. Now the Raptors learnt a lot of their skills by surviving a long time on a jungle death world what about a chapter that learnt a lot of skills from a winter death world  I then thought that chapters seem to be based on certain types of people so the type of people that survive harsh winter conditions on this planets are the Inuit etc  Stupid idea I know Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasus Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Not stupid at all  I understand the logic and whims behind this. I have felt similarly in the past. Ok I would stay away from the Antarctic website because like I said its fictional and has no actual customs or beliefs that make a society more likely to survive in a frozen hell hole, especially as it claims there's sandy beaches and green fields to look at while ballooning Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minigiant Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 Which jungle world are you referencing? The only place I can think of is Armageddon when they helped the Catachan Jungle Fighters? Is this what you mean?  You got this Jemedal where they were stuck for seven years  To be honest you not NEED a history as much as their current standing and ethos. Once you have that then any ensuing traits and quirks can be worked out later.  To be honest you not NEED a history as much as their current standing and ethos. Once you have that then any ensuing traits and quirks can be worked out later.  Well reading all about Reasonable marines it seems impossible Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasus Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Ah yeah seen you're reply, I edited my previous post to include the same information, like I said above, this happened in M41 so it's not a real speciality as they only used the skills on Armageddon. There are no other references to their jungle skills and I would personally ignore this history as it seems to have been dropped by GW, maybe when they threw them into the Badab War? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minigiant Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 Ah yeah seen you're reply, I edited my previous post to include the same information, like I said above, this happened in M41 so it's not a real speciality as they only used the skills on Armageddon. There are no other references to their jungle skills and I would personally ignore this history as it seems to have been dropped by GW, maybe when they threw them into the Badab War? Okay I give up, this IA seems impossible Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasus Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 No no no! Â The Raptor's history shouldn't affect this, this is separate. Â You can still make a tactical Chapter based on an ice world who have adapted local skills auto use the environment against their enemies. That is not an issue Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasus Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 It's suggested the raptors have successors pre-Vandire, that's your connection sorted  The battle I suggested or a similar tragedy turned into victory battle would justify your tactics if they weren't raptor related  Snow people cultures we can do  The Tau need to be stopped dammit! The Greater Good is heresy! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minigiant Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 No no no!  The Raptor's history shouldn't affect this, this is separate.  You can still make a tactical Chapter based on an ice world who have adapted local skills auto use the environment against their enemies. That is not an issue  Yes but reading the reasonable marines thing, people are set in not allowing reasonable marines to work http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319325-reasonable-marines-looking-for-inspiration/  It's suggested the raptors have successors pre-Vandire, that's your connection sorted  The Tau need to be stopped dammit! The Greater Good is heresy!  Pre-Vandire?  Umm Tau win the campaign actually Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Pre-Vandire? Â Although I often tell people not to trust Wikis - here's a link to Vandire on Lexicanum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minigiant Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 Pre-Vandire? Although I often tell people not to trust Wikis - here's a link to Vandire on Lexicanum. Okay but what does he have to do with Erasus, on 23 Feb 2016 - 8:14 PM, said: It's suggested the raptors have successors pre-Vandire, that's your connection sorted Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasus Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Yeah I was rushing and couldn't be bothered to type "before the Age of Apostasy"  I imagined the Tau would because they're your biggest army, but a spirited defence would be nice  The reason they aren't usually accepted is because Reasonable Marines fall into a similar category as Traitor geneseed and Missing Legion Chapters, totally fine and encouraged by GW yet hated on sites such as here where people want their creations to fit known lore not just play as their own DIY because it's fun.  Honestly you could do whatever you want with a Chapter, using all the Mary-sueisms, cliches, do-nots and faux pars you want. BUT to have other people accept it as part of the 40k universe they already love then you have to play by the same rules the universe does. That where most DIYs fall because in a lot of cases the exciting ideas that started your creation don't fit into the pre-determined shape set by the lore. It's a gruelling process. I once wanted a Horus geneseed Chapter but completely changed it so it would survive here. I absolutely love the new concept but I know many people lose touch with the fun side of DIYs. If you want a reasonable marine raptor descendant go for it and play your campaign. You don't NEED approval from here. Everyone here wants to build on the known universe by adding their own pieces, to do this the new pieces need to fit and not ruin the already grand and spectacular picture, if somewhat inconsistent and regularly retconned, that is already there. That's why so many people go in hard when ideas are thrown up that don't work the same way as the established stuff.  Never let this place get you down. You're better than that  It's always good to cross check several such sites and any hard copies of official stuff before accepting it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319603-black-hawks-reasonablekill-team-chapter/#findComment-4316624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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