Letting your friends dictate your hobby.

[Scribe]

Yeah, I have retired armies for the sake of my game group that cannot afford to buy new stuff all the time (rip daemon flying circus)

[Xenith]

Shake up your army also.

 

Playing against all land raiders all the time gets stale real fast, especially if you just stay inside them. Maybe keep the LR's but have an assaulty army?

[Sete]

Hmm land raider heavy army... trust me I love land raiders, but thats the same as me playing my friend with a riptide heavy army. It sucks, and makes for a poor afternoon for one of us. Like someone said before play some zone mortalis. Level the playing field. Iron Hands heavy LR army... don't be THAT guy is my best advice.

And before everyone has a go at me he asked for realistic criticism. The toughest army with the toughest vehicle going around? For me that sounds cheesy. Yeah, it's his army, and it will look really good on the shelve when he has no one to play it with.

[GhostMalone]

Your friend seems to suffer from little man syndrome perhaps take him outside and blanket bash him.

 

Then have a cigar and scotch and try again

[Slips]

How bout sitting down with him and asking him up front what he expects from a game with you and you doing the same with what you expect from him?

 

If both parties make it clear what either party is looking for and discuss about reaching a middle ground together.

 

In such a setting, rarely will civil discourse between two understanding and friendly parties go awry and usually ends with a mutual agreement being met even if it might mean agreeing to no longer play together because of irreconcilable differences.

[spafe]

Might be a bit of an outsider to these settings, but I can relate to the having one main opponent. (in a 40k setting) we approach each game with 3 lists, then before the game roll a d3 and see which list we take. That way they will all be generally all comers, and when we make them we aim to have different playstyles to each.

 

(my example has a 1 being guard, 2 being chaos horde and 3 being chaos mech, while I will face either tau, space wolves mech or space wolves cav/power armoured tide generally). Keeps us both honest, and means we can smack talk/share lists before hand and neither has to worry about facing tailored list (subconsciously we're both the sort of people who would look at them and see advantages etc).

 

So maybe for yours have one list that's termie heavy, one that's land raider heavy and one that's mech with inf (or termies while you're still expanding) support.

 

Just some ideas

[Reyner]

Alternatively tell him this is what you get when you play as TRAITOROUS WORD BEARER DOGS. Crush him with no mercy and make him remember Calth! Or Isstvan V since you are of the Iron Tenth.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I'm confused as to why he's telling you to buy a new army.

 

He's the one who can't beat you, he should invest in something that counters Land Raiders.

 

Or do it like I do, have no friends to start with. I only play random people or the store manager.

[Amayasu]

Sounds like he needs to grow up, get a little anti-tank (melta support squad?), and you could meet him half way by going easy on upgrades like Ceramite armour.

 

You get your list and LRs, he gets his infantry.

[Reyner]

From what was said earlier your friend has a few assault squads, does he use meltabombs with them at all? He could even change his tactical squads to be Veterans and outflank in Rhinos (that's a thing right?) and try clamp more meltabombs on your Land Raiders - melta guns won't be too great since you would be using armoured ceramite yeah?

[Machine God]

Interestingly I've been in a similar situation to you're friend. When I started I focused on infantry because as you referred to 30k being a fluff game I saw this as being legions of marines as they were far more numerous than in 40k. However the guys that I was gaming with when straight in for the big guns and that is a trend that I have seen through out the 30k community, big tanks that delete a squad of infantry a turn and a minimum of infantry. The thing to remember is that there is a social contract between the two of you, you are in it together and should both be working to make it an enjoyable experience. If the games aren't enjoyable for him consider not taking all the toys while encouraging him to get some pieces that can deal with the heavier armour in your force. I do wonder why you would feel that you would be limiting yourself by not taking some of these units?

I completely get what you're saying, but it's more a case of he had the units to deal with Land Raiders by virtue of having 15k points of marines. But chooses not to.

Whereas I bought a 2.5k army and don't have disposable to progress it just yet.

When we started, we was using a lot of daemon plough, and Mara Ghal, and Zardu Layak and it was all amazing and fun! But now it's just Erebus in a rhino casting psychic scream surrounded by tactical squads.

Just seems to me that the social contract you both enter into, should be about having fun. And if he isn't then of course we should both try and help, I just resent it all being my fault.

It's not your fault it is His fault!

Who are your friends to tell you what to do with your hobby?

Of course there is the point that you should try to get some variation with your army, but your friend also needs to change his army.

Maybe you two should try some Zone Mortalis games? These are just for infantry and dreadnoughts, great for smaller points games 'till your friend gets some tanks/anti-tank/whatever?

I think this has been suggested tonight as a plan and I hope something we can do.

It's not a case of him not having 30+ tanks and 12+ Dreadnoughts etc, he just chooses to not use them.

If he's got the toys to beat and Chooses not to use them then he's an Idiot!

Don't beat yourself up about it, he just a whinger who needs to grow up.

The Flesh is Weak and he's showing you that. Congratulations to you!

[The Fabricator General]

Actually both parties could be considered at fault. Compromise is the key here, you should both be able to play the game you want. In any situation like this you should discuss the sorts of force that you want to run and figure out how to play a game that you both enjoy, unless you are playing competitively then the gloves could be considered 'off'. Gotta say it saddens me to see comments saying that this guy is just a cry baby and needs to man up, tourney play yes but fun and fluff driven games between mates that's just not the spirit of the game.

 

Now to weather the backlash.

[MakoBoy88]

Actually both parties could be considered at fault. Compromise is the key here, you should both be able to play the game you want. In any situation like this you should discuss the sorts of force that you want to run and figure out how to play a game that you both enjoy, unless you are playing competitively then the gloves could be considered 'off'. Gotta say it saddens me to see comments saying that this guy is just a cry baby and needs to man up, tourney play yes but fun and fluff driven games between mates that's just not the spirit of the game.

 

Now to weather the backlash.

Na, definitely no backlash. We had a chat this morning and agreed that we were both at fault and simply communication should have been there. He apologised for winging when really he is his own enemy in it. And I apologised for not seeing how boring it must be to only play one army over and over again.

 

So, fresh approach, he is going to invest more in Daemons and the Gal Vorbak and I am going to try and get my new Imperial Fists Breacher list to be as fun and interesting as possible!

[PastelAvenger]

My close friends who I gave with rarely buy each other models we would like to see in their army every year.

 

So I got 3 Grav Cannons (they regret this)

One for a Fire Raptor

One got a Leviathan

One got a Ticket to the Weekender after he bought himself a Spartan

[The Fabricator General]

Makoboy88 you just learnt yourself respect.

[Trevak Dal]

Who are your friends to tell you what to do with your hobby?

 

Of course there is the point that you should try to get some variation with your army, but your friend also needs to change his army.

 

Maybe you two should try some Zone Mortalis games? These are just for infantry and dreadnoughts, great for smaller points games 'till your friend gets some tanks/anti-tank/whatever?

Zone mortalis in general cancels out a lot of the bull crap in the game.

 

I think that if I get into 30k I'm going to have a core list with the idea and goal to get the assets to make all the row that I find interesting like how my Csms and tau are.

 

My friend in our 40k games doesn't take advantage of what his chosen armies do best (except his eldar.) Such as fast rhinos for his flesh Tearers and having non mixed devestators and laments how they do against my Csms who rock ubergrit and dual specials in rhinos they don't leave until the opportunity presents itself.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Actually both parties could be considered at fault. Compromise is the key here, you should both be able to play the game you want. In any situation like this you should discuss the sorts of force that you want to run and figure out how to play a game that you both enjoy, unless you are playing competitively then the gloves could be considered 'off'. Gotta say it saddens me to see comments saying that this guy is just a cry baby and needs to man up, tourney play yes but fun and fluff driven games between mates that's just not the spirit of the game.

 

Now to weather the backlash.

 

Hardly.

 

What's happened here is one person has fielded huge blobs of infantry and no AV capability. He's then played a mechanised force and understandably lost, rather than considering what he needs to do and adjusting he immediately told his friend he needs to buy a new army. That's unreasonable, clear as day.

 

Massed Land Raiders is hardly cheese and 30k is quite nicely balanced.

 

If OP had been fielding a Typhon, Spartans or Primarchs at 2k games I could see a consideration being made to exclude them, but just Land Raiders? Get some anti-vehicle weapons. It's not "comprormise" for a "fluffy" game just because your list has been invalidated by a better built list.

 

Also why did he not just ask OP to field only infantry? What would you say to somebody who said infantry only? What if you didn't have nearly as much infantry? Buy some more? Why, because it's fun for somebody else. Brilliant argument.

 

I should "compromise" with my games now, I can envisage a few rules:

 

1) I have lots of infantry, so no Whirlwinds because AP3 templates are unfair

2) They're not allowed LoWs because most Heresy battles are one sided, so this should be represented

3) If I field lots of tanks, they're not allowed AV weapons because I want to play with big tanks. It's not fun or fair if they die too quickly

 

Far too slippery a slope. Agree expectations before a game, agree from where you draw your lists, agree on any restrictions and agree to not be a whiny sob when you lose.

 

tl;dr 30k has a FoC and points limit for a reason. If you fill your FoC list with mostly one of a unit, be prepared to have an unfun time against anyone with a well rounded or specialised list.

[Sete]

I love the line that 30k is nicely balanced. I disagree.

Pretty disapointed with some comments around here I expected better.

Maybe I need to *man up* aswell.

But as he said he was playing a friend. Friends can make compromises.

Buying a new army is a bit of a high demand and I missed that bit on my before coffee read.

But im glad you reached an agreement. I am by the neck with cheese players in my area. I dont have much budget to go around and I always take the same stuff the few games I play. So much fun to go against a list tailored against you. But once in a while I borrow an army and drop the pain. Maybe thats why I only have a couple of guys to play with me.

Having a friend to play with is awesome.

As I said before, glad you guys reached a compromise. Enjoy your games ;)

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I love the line that 30k is nicely balanced. I disagree.

 

 

Feel free to show me the lists of cheese in 30k that are equal/greater than things like Eldar jetbike, Riptides, Wraithknights, White Scars powerlists etc. 30k is not the domain of cheese. 

[helterskelter]

 

 

I love the line that 30k is nicely balanced. I disagree.

 

Feel free to show me the lists of cheese in 30k that are equal/greater than things like Eldar jetbike, Riptides, Wraithknights, White Scars powerlists etc. 30k is not the domain of cheese.

grav spam lists. Grav rapiers, double grav contmeptors, anyway to squeeze grav in is done.

Though usually at the expense of no AA. So granted 1 or 2 suitably armed flyers ruin their day

Lightning spam. Ones all armed with kraken penetrators with a sprinkling of sunfury for those blobs.

Spartan spam. Near enough every world eater list.

All these things I consider cheese although really they're all fair game. Just wouldn't consider them fun to play against

[Ishagu]

Eldar wraith and bike like lists would still destroy all that...

[MakoBoy88]

Anyway gents, let's not get bogged down between the games eh :)

 

Right, now I need to make a shopping list of fun and useful units in a Polux led breaching army.

[Lord Blackwood]

Just so long as you one shot his HQ with Pollux str 10 fist at initiative  you win the game  you dont even need to actually win  so long as you  turn his prized models head into a fine pink mist 

[The Fabricator General]

Agreed, as I could go on a right tirade about cheese in 30k. Let us know how the games go in the future.

[Ishagu]

There is only one instance when I won't lower the power level of my list: When fighting Chaos Space Marines in 40k games! lol

 

I remember when their codex came out, at the time I was still playing fifth edition Ultras. No flyers, no grav, much more expensive and limited units, no real allies and so on.

When the book dropped, the local Chaos players jumped on it with full force (these are my friends, btw), and started to abuse everything in it. I was facing 3 Heldrakes (back when they would pop a Rhino then burn the marines inside with a fart), A Prince with the black mace boosted with Psychic powers, Oblit Nurgle Spam and a lot of a Bikers and Spawn.

Everything was cheaper than the equivalent in my army, more powerful, and I was losing 30 Marines a turn to the Heldrakes. This carried on for a long, long time... and it was horrible!

 

When the new Marine book came out, I returned the favour. Now when I face Chaos, I hit them with DropPod Grav Spam, an invisible Imperial Knight, and all the new goodies and formations that cost less than their book's equivalents. I have tabled Chaos Marines in every game I've played against them in the last few months, and will continue to do so :-D

 

Don't repeat the same mistakes as my gaming circle!