30k Mechanicum as relics in 40k

[Dread0]

Sorry if this question has been answered elsewhere, I had a search and couldn't find anything on it. 

 

I've been looking at adding a couple of Mechanicum units from Forgeworld into my 40k army. I wanted to start with the Thanatar Siege Automata as it looks particularly badass. I have 3 questions about it though:

 

1. What rules do I need to field this unit? Just the 30k rules for the Automata itself or are there any extras like the Leviathan Dreadnought's one where it is crazy and charges everything.

 

2. Has anyone used 30k in 40k and had success or do the units not gel together?  

 

3. What faction would the unit be? Skitarii, Cult Mech or would it stay Mechanicum?

 

 

[DeStinyFiSh]

I am thinking about doing the same. Here are a few of my thoughts:

As far as I know you can use the units of the Taghmata book in 40k games, but according to FW it is not meant to be this way and might be of balance.

However, I've ssen some battle reports on the internet (Mechanicum vs. 40k) and the games looked alright.

WRT the faction I think Mechanicum would be right. So you would need another detachment. In the Taghmata book there are a few FOCs, so this shouldn't be a problem. You can also use the standart allied detachment to keep it as small as possible.

I myself will wait a few more months. I think with my plans for Skitarii, Cult and Knights I am busy at least til June. And if the rumours are correct, there will be some new Ad Mech releases in April / May that can be used for HH and 40k. Also a new Imperial Armour is planned for the end of the year, including Ad Mech as well.

I just want to avoid buying expensive modells now that don't make it into these upcomming releases. But I think most modells will, since FW wants to make money out of them

But on the other side... I WANT A THANTAR ! NOW !

[Grand Master Laertes]

The next Imperial Armour book from Forge World should answer all your questions as it should contain the rules to use our 30k "toys" in the 40k. I would not bet on Battle Automata rules for 40k, tough, as the fluff states that they don't exist anymore, if not for those still in possession of the Dark Mechanicus or the most heretic Forge Worlds.

 

For the moment, if your friends are ok with it, you could play them as they are, but I would keep them as a separate faction, for they are quite powerful yet, and I don't think it would be fair to let them use the Canticles (unless you want to play a narrative mission where this is permitted, of course).

[Dread0]

Roger that, I'll wait until the next Imperial Armour is released and see what happens. Maybe in the mean time I'll proxy a few 30k units just to give it a try. We allowed a Titan made of Duplo once so I think my friends will be cool.

But on the other side... I WANT A THANTAR ! NOW !

You and me both. They are so shiny!

[DeStinyFiSh]

We allowed a Titan made of Duplo once so I think my friends will be cool.

Made my day

I just read some fluff in the Taghmata book yesterday. Here a little quote from the Castellax:

"... and in a few short years thousands of these war engines would be broken on the wheel of war, and the Castellax was never to be seen again in such numbers"

So i hope the automata will still make it to 40k. I like them the most, followed by the awsome tanks (and Ordinatus weapons of course )

[Dread0]

Ad Mech are all about finding lost and old tech. I'm sure GW wouldn't miss out on the opportunity to sell more models!

 

Also that Duplo Titan was awesome, you could physically blow bits off it. I'll have to get some photos done if we do it again.

[MoGuy]

Why wait for the new releases? The Taghmata Army Book will still be viable and up to date even when the new IA Book hits the shelves (the IA Book will contain new units/models but I don't think it touches the already existing ones). 

 

Where have you gotten the idea that GW will make Automata rules/models for 40K? I don't think we will see new 40K Ad Mech Models for quite some time (altough I hope that I'm wrong of course) and if you want to field Automata you can just use the 30K Taghmata List for the rules etc. As far as I know 30K Ad Mech is actually not bad at all when pitched against 40K armies. I have the Taghmata Book here and aside from being gorgeous to look at, it also contains amazing and powerful toys! 

 

The new IA Book will have new Automata such as this beauty: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-CA/Mechanicum-Domitar-Battle-automata

 

And I think we will see some of these units as well: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/318897-more-new-automatas-one-is-adorable/

[DeStinyFiSh]

No one said GW will release Automata

Rumours say that there will be a combined Ad mech Codex from GW in Q2 2016. According to these rumours, this codex includes 3 more units (Robots that are missing in the existing releases if I remember correctly).

Another rumour is the next IA in Q3/4 2016 which shall include Ad mech as well. I would be suprised if FW does not include any of the existing Taghmata units. Why sell something only for HH when you could also sell it for 40k (which has a lot more gamers) ?

As I said, I am busy with other stuff until June anyway, so waiting is not a big problem. It would just be a shame to buy some units now and non of them is included in the IA then. Thats my thinking.

If I would be bored at the moment I would as well go for the existing Taghmate modells that are available now and hope for the best... I just prefere when units are officially allowed in the system I field them in, than no one can complain and I can sleep without havin remorse fielding these units

Edit: Ah, and lately there are rumours about some boxes coming in April / May labeled for 40k AND 30k

[MoGuy]

 

 

Rumours say that there will be a combined Ad mech Codex from GW in Q2 2016. According to these rumours, this codex includes 3 more units (Robots that are missing in the existing releases if I remember correctly).

 

You mean that there will be a Codex that puts together the Skitarii Codex and the Cult Mechanicus Codex plus adding 3 new units? That would be awesome! :D 

 

I haven't heard about that rumour but BOLS says the same. The 3 new units are rumoured to be: A dual kit that can be built into two kinds of robots/automata. A flyer. A transport vehicle(!). Oh sweet baby jesus, if we get a transport tank with the asthetics of something like the Triaros Armoured Conveyer, without having to give a kidney and a leg to afford it, I will go nuts! 

 

 

 

Another rumour is the next IA in Q3/4 2016 which shall include Ad mech as well

 

I think I know what you want to say but just to be clear: By "Ad Mech" do you mean 40K Adeptus Mechanicus? Or 30K Adeptus Mechanicus? So the IA Book will be a mix between 30K Taghmata Units and (new) 40K Ad Mech units?

 

 

 

t would just be a shame to buy some units now and non of them is included in the IA then

 

But how does that matter? If you would buy e.g. Servo Automata now and they are not in the IA there are therefore still legit to take as units. Or does the I.A. incorporate those Taghmata/30K units into 40K, thus making them "legal" to field in 40K? 

[Grand Master Laertes]

 

 

 

t would just be a shame to buy some units now and non of them is included in the IA then

 

But how does that matter? If you would buy e.g. Servo Automata now and they are not in the IA there are therefore still legit to take as units. Or does the I.A. incorporate those Taghmata/30K units into 40K, thus making them "legal" to field in 40K? 

 

 

Exactly. That IA should be the official source telling us which Taghmata units are "legal" to play in 40k and what rules do they have after 10,000 years.

 

Obviously, your friends could agree to let you play also the "illegal" Taghmata, thus invalidating the restrictions of the IA, but it is not something that could be taken for granted in every gaming group.

[MajorNese]

 

Exactly. That IA should be the official source telling us which Taghmata units are "legal" to play in 40k and what rules do they have after 10,000 years.

 

 

And there will be units that won't be around in 40k, FW said as much at events. The entire volkite/phosphex weaponry range is an example of what's maybe just left as one relic instead of rank-and-file gun (or disappear entirely, hello graviton), and that the IA would focus on the vehicles. FW adheres to its fluff, and certain things, including much of the cybernetica, is said as pretty much lost. Maybe they will include them (like the "relic" astartes vehicles), but maybe not. And then they simply aren't legal to field as part of a 40k army, with only house rules making them usable. I'd just wait for IA and the new codex...

[Tyriks]

There's a YouTube channel with lots of batreps where he fields 30k Mechanicum alongside 40k. Most of his lists aren't super competitive but they're fun to watch and you can get some idea of how they'll work together. Here's his channel: https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCWVwkGrdqVEGkU3LNlp70fw

[Magos Takatus]

I'm looking forward to a word from Forge World letting us know which Mechanicum units can be fielded by the Adeptus Mechanicus, since not every pattern of automata got corrupted. I prefer the Forge World robots so I'd be happy for some of them to survive the transition to 40k. I'd expect the Vorax and Scyllax to be the least likely, but a Thanatar treated like the Space Marine Relic vehicles would be great. MajorNese has the right idea. :)

 

I think after more automata, a flier/gunship and a transport vehicle I'd like to see Adeptus Mechanicus Praetorians. It's always been a name for elite Mechanicus warriors. I suppose they would be an elite version of the Kataphron servitors?

 

I hope the rumour Moguy posted turns out to be pretty accurate.

 

There were a few tidbits mentioned in the Skitarius book. The main character describes the information he gathered being shunted to the Arkcruiser via the Onager up through the "Sky Talon". Either they are referring to a transporter Valkyrie variant or that's a new command-and-control aircraft for Skitarii forces. The Skitarius in question is an Alpha Primus, which sounds like a proper HQ unit, since he is able to wield four weapons at once, making him a fair bit more powerful in a fight than your bog standard squad Alpha. Both of these should be treated with caution, since the tech-priest explorator in the book of the same name is described as being almost as large as a dreadnought and armed with an Icarus array and a Torsion cannon. As a result these potential clues sound like they could be artistic license. I just thought if the BOLs rumour guessed at a flier, I read about a "Sky Talon" aircraft that may back that up.

[MoGuy]

Does anyone know if the Mechanicum Units in the IA will be labeled as Ad Mech or as Taghmata? Because if they are Ad Mech we could field them alongside our normal Skitarii/Cult. If they are Taghmata one would have to field a Taghmata Army and maybe ally Skitarii to them (which would mean that one would have to buy a Taghmata HQ and Troops etc.). 

 

 

 

There were a few tidbits mentioned in the Skitarius book.

 

The one where they are on the Ice Planet and hunt down savage Orks? Awesome storys! However, I don't know if an Alpha Primus would be a full-fledged HQ unit. The Alpha is the guy who leads a Squad of Vanguards or Rangers (the pendant for the Infiltrators/Ruststalkers is the Princeps). Quote from the Warhammer 40K Wiki:

 

 

 

The most blessed pass a point called the Crux Mechanicus, their body more machine than flesh. Those that reach this stage of mechamorphosis are known as Skitarii Alphas. Some go on to attain the rank of Alpha Primus -- overseers who can operate independently for years if necessary, as solid and reliable as the titanium that replaces their flesh.

 

Of course it would be awesome to get some more HQ choices - or at least an HQ for the Skitarii. I think an Alpha Primus would be a (quite fragile of course) allrounder. His base weapons would either be a stronger Rad Carabine or a better Galvanic Rifle (+ a melee weapon) and he could have access to our typical toys like the Converter Field, the Artefacts and maybe some different weapon loadouts. I personally would go berserk if we somehow get either A) the Medusa Rocketlauncher or B) a Rad Cleanser/Engine (-1 Toughness permanently for everything that suffered a wound? Yes please!).

[DeStinyFiSh]

Does anyone know if the Mechanicum Units in the IA will be labeled as Ad Mech or as Taghmata? Because if they are Ad Mech we could field them alongside our normal Skitarii/Cult. If they are Taghmata one would have to field a Taghmata Army and maybe ally Skitarii to them (which would mean that one would have to buy a Taghmata HQ and Troops etc.). 

 

My guess:

Before there will be a new IA, a combined Ad Mech Codex will be released. I think everything that can be used from the FW range will be part of that army as well then.

[MoGuy]

 

 

Before there will be a new IA, a combined Ad Mech Codex will be released. I think everything that can be used from the FW range will be part of that army as well then.

 

I wonder if that Codex will have a new name. Maybe it will just be "Adeptus Mechanicus" but maybe we will have a different name like "Adeptus Mechanicus [Enter Branch here]". I am also wondering what will happen to the Force Organization Charts in our Codices. Since there won't be Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus anymore, we can't use the Skitarii Maniple for instance. The other formations will probably still be there but the Organization Charts will probably be different. 

[DeStinyFiSh]

Why should the Ad Mech release look any different than the other latest releases? It will most likely look like all of them do...

A decurion style detachment and ~ 10 formations (old and new ones). There will propably no extra FOC, but as always you will be able to use the CAD from the rulebook.

[MoGuy]

 

 

Why should the Ad Mech release look any different than the other latest releases?

 

I have gotten into 40K only around late December 2015 so I have no idea how other codices may look like. Do they all have the Decurion Style Detachment? I know that Orks don't have that and Tyranids also have nothing like that. Would be nice to see though, as I like all those crazy formations. :D

[DeStinyFiSh]

Why should the Ad Mech release look any different than the other latest releases?

I have gotten into 40K only around late December 2015 so I have no idea how other codices may look like. Do they all have the Decurion Style Detachment? I know that Orks don't have that and Tyranids also have nothing like that. Would be nice to see though, as I like all those crazy formations.

Yes, all late releases look the same. Orcs have a Decurion in the latest supplement, like Tau, Daemons, Imps and Space Wolfs.

[MajorNese]

Does anyone know if the Mechanicum Units in the IA will be labeled as Ad Mech or as Taghmata? Because if they are Ad Mech we could field them alongside our normal Skitarii/Cult. If they are Taghmata one would have to field a Taghmata Army and maybe ally Skitarii to them (which would mean that one would have to buy a Taghmata HQ and Troops etc.).

Taghmata is 30k only. 30k has its own range of rulebooks, and IA is 40k only. And the quotes from the heresy weekender say the IA book is about AdMech (not Mechanicum, the 30k version), a 40k marine chapter, and tau (IIRC). So that's certain, if a unit is in the IA book, it becomes a usual 40k unit, no taghmata needed.

 

As for the AdMech-codex, rumors say a few new kits, combined codex, and probably some formations/special detachment. And it won't contain FW units, as GW has thrown all of those out of every GW codex. Hints in Skitarius aren't the most reliable source, as it was pretty much a product placement book, and therefore doesn't feature units without a sellable model. Cybernetica featured skitarii in valkyries, still doesn't mean we can use them.