Ashen Claws Fluff

[b1soul]

So these are clearly the "ancestors" of the Carcharadons

They preserve the Terran XIXth Legion's ways

 

Any juicy fluff about them of the Nostramo Scouring in Book VI?

[Kelborn]

Is that so?

Thought that the Pale Nomads were their ancestors.

 

Was that retconned in Retribution?

[shandwen]

To claim that they are clearly the charcaradons we would have to see something like the chainfiat lightning claws of tyberous, or a clear image of a shark motif.

[m0nolith]

I dont know if they are or not, but if they are this would be pretty damn cool actually.

I really hope they arent a one off and that we get to hear about them again in another book.

[Kol Saresk]

Is that so?

Thought that the Pale Nomads were their ancestors.

 

Was that retconned in Retribution?

No.

 

The Pale Nomads are a separate predation fleet that eventually becomes the Carcharadons. A different fleet, one that is less loyal to the Imperium, becomes the Ashen Claws who begin raiding the Nostramo sector, first to claim it from the Night Lords there, and then to solidify their claim against the Imperium. They even come into conflict with the Ultramarines. This culminates into a campaign that pits them against Crysos Mortug and his Blackshields, the 108th Independent Company.

 

But both fleets do originate from the Raven Guard that were exiled from the Legion by Corax during the Great Crusade.

[helterskelter]

And even then the nightlords can still go back in the future when they need Nostramos adamantium

[Kol Saresk]

And even then the nightlords can still go back in the future when they need Nostramos adamantium

Not necessarily. The Warband of the Broken Aquila found a fragment of Nostramo that had been floating through space for 10,000 years. Depending on how fast it traveled through space, trajectory, starting location and several other factors, it may not have been in the Nostramo sector when they found it. After all, the warband was completely shocked because of how they defied the odds in finding it, using nothing more than prophetic dreams.

[No Foes Remain]

 

Is that so?

Thought that the Pale Nomads were their ancestors.

 

Was that retconned in Retribution?

No.

 

The Pale Nomads are a separate predation fleet that eventually becomes the Carcharadons. A different fleet, one that is less loyal to the Imperium, becomes the Ashen Claws who begin raiding the Nostramo sector, first to claim it from the Night Lords there, and then to solidify their claim against the Imperium. They even come into conflict with the Ultramarines. This culminates into a campaign that pits them against Crysos Mortug and his Blackshields, the 108th Independent Company.

 

But both fleets do originate from the Raven Guard that were exiled from the Legion by Corax during the Great Crusade.

 

I thought Pale Nomads were a name for the pre-corax XIXth Legion, not its own fleet.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

 

Is that so?

Thought that the Pale Nomads were their ancestors.

 

Was that retconned in Retribution?

No.

 

The Pale Nomads are a separate predation fleet that eventually becomes the Carcharadons. A different fleet, one that is less loyal to the Imperium, becomes the Ashen Claws who begin raiding the Nostramo sector, first to claim it from the Night Lords there, and then to solidify their claim against the Imperium. They even come into conflict with the Ultramarines. This culminates into a campaign that pits them against Crysos Mortug and his Blackshields, the 108th Independent Company.

 

But both fleets do originate from the Raven Guard that were exiled from the Legion by Corax during the Great Crusade.

I thought Pale Nomads were a name for the pre-corax XIXth Legion, not its own fleet.

Yes, and possibly no.

 

The Pale Nomads are shown to have paint schemes to the Carcharadons, thus providing(albeit circumstancially) evidence that the Carcharadons would have descended from the Terrans Corax purged from the Legion. The Ashen Claws were a Chapter among that purge.

 

However, the difference in color scheme would suggest that the Terrans split into their constituent fleets based on the Chapters making them up. As shown by the Ashen Claws having black armor with a shuriken-like symbol versus the shark motifs some of the other Terrans wear in the artwork.

 

Combine this with the Carcharadons' intense loyalty to the Imperium vs the Ashen Claws' total irreverence for authority, one can draw the conclusion that somewhere, there was a schism among the predation fleets.

 

So while the other fleets are not referred to as the Pale Nomads, it helps me to call them that to help differentiate between the two forces.

[Atia]

Is that so?

Thought that the Pale Nomads were their ancestors.

Was that retconned in Retribution?

No.

The Pale Nomads are a separate predation fleet that eventually becomes the Carcharadons. A different fleet, one that is less loyal to the Imperium, becomes the Ashen Claws who begin raiding the Nostramo sector, first to claim it from the Night Lords there, and then to solidify their claim against the Imperium. They even come into conflict with the Ultramarines. This culminates into a campaign that pits them against Crysos Mortug and his Blackshields, the 108th Independent Company.

But both fleets do originate from the Raven Guard that were exiled from the Legion by Corax during the Great Crusade.

Exactly that. Imho the Ashen Claws are NOT the Carcharodons, but rather an example for "bad evil-neutral XIX legion raiders". There were more than one fleet, and the Carcharodons come probably from the ones that got the Nicor (--> Arkhas Fal's fleet).

Ashen Claws also have black armour with red shoulder pads, not the XIX legion pre-Corax scheme

[No Foes Remain]

 

 

 

Is that so?

Thought that the Pale Nomads were their ancestors.

 

Was that retconned in Retribution?

No.

 

The Pale Nomads are a separate predation fleet that eventually becomes the Carcharadons. A different fleet, one that is less loyal to the Imperium, becomes the Ashen Claws who begin raiding the Nostramo sector, first to claim it from the Night Lords there, and then to solidify their claim against the Imperium. They even come into conflict with the Ultramarines. This culminates into a campaign that pits them against Crysos Mortug and his Blackshields, the 108th Independent Company.

 

But both fleets do originate from the Raven Guard that were exiled from the Legion by Corax during the Great Crusade.

I thought Pale Nomads were a name for the pre-corax XIXth Legion, not its own fleet.

Yes, and possibly no.

 

The Pale Nomads are shown to have paint schemes to the Carcharadons, thus providing(albeit circumstancially) evidence that the Carcharadons would have descended from the Terrans Corax purged from the Legion. The Ashen Claws were a Chapter among that purge.

 

However, the difference in color scheme would suggest that the Terrans split into their constituent fleets based on the Chapters making them up. As shown by the Ashen Claws having black armor with a shuriken-like symbol versus the shark motifs some of the other Terrans wear in the artwork.

 

Combine this with the Carcharadons' intense loyalty to the Imperium vs the Ashen Claws' total irreverence for authority, one can draw the conclusion that somewhere, there was a schism among the predation fleets.

 

So while the other fleets are not referred to as the Pale Nomads, it helps me to call them that to help differentiate between the two forces.

 

Wow thats confusing... I got a headache just from reading that.

[Kol Saresk]

I guess the easier way to put it would be the Pale Nomads were the pre-Corax Terrans, many of whom would be expelled from the Legion by Corax.

 

The Ashen Claws were a specific group with that formation. Sometime after their exile, the Ashen Claws split off from the other Predation Fleets. The Ashen Claws would go on to become Blackshields, while the other Predation Fleets would spawn the Carcharadons and possibly even other Chapters and warbands.

[No Foes Remain]

I guess the easier way to put it would be the Pale Nomads were the pre-Corax Terrans, many of whom would be expelled from the Legion by Corax.

 

The Ashen Claws were a specific group with that formation. Sometime after their exile, the Ashen Claws split off from the other Predation Fleets. The Ashen Claws would go on to become Blackshields, while the other Predation Fleets would spawn the Carcharadons and possibly even other Chapters and warbands.

Ok, that makes more sense. I wish my book would hurry up, I want to read it.

[Scribe]

Kol, is that all from Book 6, or some from the original RG fluff (book...3?)

[Kol Saresk]

Kol, is that all from Book 6, or some from the original RG fluff (book...3?)

Both. Book 3 discussed the predation fleets' existence and that the Ashen Claws Chapter was amongst them.

 

Book 6 describes their actions in the Heresy were they have become a Blackshields force that is raiding all other forces that are in the Nostramo sector.

 

As for the Carcharadons, that is Book 3 and the Badab Wars since their background in the Heresy series stops at the obvious implication that they are descended from the same Terran Predation Fleets, but apparently went one way while the Ashen Claws went a different way.

[Scribe]

Thanks, I dont have 6 yet, and its been awhile since I have read 3. 

[Daemon2027]

I need book 6.

[m0nolith]

Are the Pale Nomads an official or a chapter invented on here by GrandMagnus?

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310510-the-pale-nomads/

 

Edit: NVM, look through the book, yep theyre official :D

[b1soul]

Hi guys...so what do the Ashen Claws do in the Nostramo system? Are the NL even there?

[Kol Saresk]

There are some Night Lords there. Ophion of the Kyroptera took it upon himself to collect the Night Lords forces there and bring them back into the fold of the main Legion. The Ashen Claws interrupt the party and just start raiding everyone, regardless of whether they are Imperial or Traitors. I think they even attack Ophion's flagship and it ends up going down, but it takes all of the Ashen Claws who boarded down with it.

[1ncarnadine]

There are some Night Lords there. Ophion of the Kyroptera took it upon himself to collect the Night Lords forces there and bring them back into the fold of the main Legion. The Ashen Claws interrupt the party and just start raiding everyone, regardless of whether they are Imperial or Traitors. I think they even attack Ophion's flagship and it ends up going down, but it takes all of the Ashen Claws who boarded down with it.

 

There's also the bit about the mysterious disappearance of most of the Shroud of Eventide's crew & complement. Any guesses as to where the heck they went? It's really weird.

 

There are only two things that kind of make sense; either they joined the Ashen Claws or the Ashen Claws killed them and took their bodies (geneseed?) and equipment. But why not just harvest the geneseed and leave the bodies? And the thousands of non-Astartes crew? #1 is also probably wrong because Ophion seems intensely loyal to his Legion. Yeah. Just strange.

 

This culminates into a campaign that pits them against Crysos Mortug and his Blackshields, the 108th Independent Company.

 

 

2nd time I've tried to put this to death but Morturg & the 108th never encounter the Ashen Claws. They just patrol through a nearby area and intercept an astropathic message fragment that is probably attributable to the Ashen Claws.

[Kol Saresk]

Or the crew of the Eventide could have jumped ship and then left it to burn with its attackers on board, a lá Search for Spock.

[1ncarnadine]

Or the crew of the Eventide could have jumped ship and then left it to burn with its attackers on board, a lá Search for Spock.

 

This is true! And would explain why the area around the wreck wasn't fought over. It's also possible Ophion was murdered by his own crew before they abandoned ship. But then Ophion wears a highly distinctive suit of power armor so how were his remains not found? Maybe he was murdered right after abandoning ship?

[b1soul]

There are some Night Lords there. Ophion of the Kyroptera took it upon himself to collect the Night Lords forces there and bring them back into the fold of the main Legion. The Ashen Claws interrupt the party and just start raiding everyone, regardless of whether they are Imperial or Traitors. I think they even attack Ophion's flagship and it ends up going down, but it takes all of the Ashen Claws who boarded down with it.

Who are the Imperials there?

[Kol Saresk]

Ultramarines going by the blurb in the pic with their flier.