Who would be your Dauntless Few?

[Lord Blackwood]

watching people blatantly ignore slipstreams warning is baffling 

[Marshal Rohr]

The ideal Dauntless Few:

 

Guilliman as theater commander

Dorn as chief of fleet operations

Manus as chief of planetary operations

Russ as chief of plans/intelligence

Sanguinius as Guillimans deputy commander

[lokkorex]

The ideal Dauntless Few:

Guilliman as theater commander

Dorn as chief of fleet operations

Manus as chief of planetary operations

Russ as chief of plans/intelligence

Sanguinius as Guillimans deputy commander

I'm curious as to why you put russ in charge of intelligence and plans, seems more like corax or alpharius thing.

Or did i blatantly miss the point of what you meant?

I'm not questioning your choices at all, just curious how you are thinking.

[Marshal Rohr]

Russ has always been ranked higher as a commander than Corax and Alpharius, although I'm not disputing either of their abilities as both generals and their skill at unconventional warfare, but in a joint task force like this playing well with others is very important, a skill Corax and Alpharius both lack to varying degrees. Russ was also the second Primarch found, and has shaped his legion to perform well in conventional and unconventional operations. In a JTF I feel like his temperament and resume fits the role of Chief of Plans and Chief of Intel best because his legion legions background has been expanded to show they are as meticulous about detail as the 'soldier' legions, and Fenrisians are hardy survivalists and trackers by nature. At the strategic and operational level I feel like Russ' nature would benefit the JTF most by being in a position to analyze intelligence and plan operations in a way Guilliman and the others may not consider, but still have the interpersonal skills to put forward ideas and objectives without being patronizing or secretive.

[lokkorex]

Russ has always been ranked higher as a commander than Corax and Alpharius, although I'm not disputing either of their abilities as both generals and their skill at unconventional warfare, but in a joint task force like this playing well with others is very important, a skill Corax and Alpharius both lack to varying degrees. Russ was also the second Primarch found, and has shaped his legion to perform well in conventional and unconventional operations. In a JTF I feel like his temperament and resume fits the role of Chief of Plans and Chief of Intel best because his legion legions background has been expanded to show they are as meticulous about detail as the 'soldier' legions, and Fenrisians are hardy survivalists and trackers by nature. At the strategic and operational level I feel like Russ' nature would benefit the JTF most by being in a position to analyze intelligence and plan operations in a way Guilliman and the others may not consider, but still have the interpersonal skills to put forward ideas and objectives without being patronizing or secretive.

Cool, did not know about the expanded background for the wolves!

Also, had forgotten he was the second primarch.

[Ishagu]

Yeah, Russ is a strategic commander. He illustrated that against Angron and his Legion though the point he was making fell on deaf ears...

[Calas Typhon]

Yeah, Russ is a strategic commander. He illustrated that against Angron and his Legion though the point he was making fell on deaf ears...

Lets not open that can of worms

[DarKnight]

Ultramarines for their reliability and numbers

Vlka Frenyka (s/p) for the kill shot

Raven Guard because I think Corax and I would be friends and for intelligence gathering

 

I don't really want/need anyone else

[Marshal Rohr]

Yeah, Russ is a strategic commander. He illustrated that against Angron and his Legion though the point he was making fell on deaf ears...

 

I can't tell if you are agreeing or being sarcastic, first because of the ellipsis, and second because a fist fight is actually one of the times that he wouldve not used his traditional caution.

[Dantay VI]

From a more neutral perspective, look at the strategies deployed by the Fenryka, in the short story Wolf at the door & then against the Quietude in Prospero Burns, when they capture the sphere.

 

They had studied the Quietude, and knew to attack in different ways because of their borg like way of adapting, they also showed restraint in not destroying the control room, so the Mechanicum could study the sphere and its purpose/ control systems.

 

Also the way they managed to slip aboard the sphere pretty much uncontested.

 

The Fenryka rely on intelligence gathering before striking, they believe in the maxim of knowing their enemy...

 

The WOlves may look like savages or animals, but they still have a cunning intelligence which is often overlooked.

 

The Dauntless Few ARE the Dauntless Few. Any other combination claiming the same is just a pale imitation.

 

It would be better phrased as which would be your ideal, for taking and holding an empire

[b1soul]

Yeah, Russ is a strategic commander. He illustrated that against Angron and his Legion though the point he was making fell on deaf ears...

Trying to convince the violently insane primarch not to be violently insane...by initiating violence against said violently insane primarch

 

Yes, absolute strategic genius on the part of Russ.

[Kais Klip]

But his Empire was a jewel of freedom, efficiency and prosperity in an otherwise miserable galaxy.

 

Remember that Guilliman made life for regular humans far, far better than anyone else even dreamed it could be in the Imperium. Also his loyalty to the Emperor can't be questioned.

On the outside, on the inside it was only so for those with money or connections, as it always is. Guilliman's empire was alright, a staple, factory pressed alright which was modular and utilitarian. Soulless, like an army encampment. Which is great where alright is so rare

 

Fulgrim's Chemos is what you're speaking of, that was the cultural wonder.

 

And then Magnus' Itza was the paradise unheralded.

 

Thanks, wolves.

[Dantay VI]

You're welcome Kais, but would you care to post an ON TOPIC reply? Who would be your dauntless few?

[Kais Klip]

I recognise my error and will be sure to correct it.

 

I will also step over dear leader OP and remind everyone the original purpose behind G's Dauntless Few;

 

"Any threat, any place. Practical victory."

 

The entire Hive Fleet, the Necron dynasty (or whatever the hell it is). I for one seriously believe guilliman will struggle against those threats, and practically speaking, I would want Dorn holding the walls at terra, not guilliman.

 

Dorn had what, 3/4 of the dauntless few under theatre command? And Russ left his post to alpha strike Horus, so there goes his reliability, no?

 

Also, to better delve in the legions themselves, I suggest we leave the primarchs out of the equation, apart from one overseeing each combination (now that's a question, who would utilise their strengths more, Horus or Guilliman? Emperor gave his answer).

 

Edit: So I don't get shot, my dauntless few, for end-world, Rhana Dandra, scenario:

 

Blood Angels, for the pin point killshot to the brainpan. Because where Horus was the spear thrust, he was the strategic spear thrust, his forces are outmatched on the micro, practical, tactical level by jump pack thrusting, drive screaming, bulkhead shattering IXth Legion Drop Assault that will enter the Black Rage and do even more damage before expiring.

 

The critical player of my Few would be the Dark Angels, they've been holding the line before everyone else came along, they'll be holding it long after everyone is gone. They're the ones that faced an actual Imperium-ending threat and ended it. They're my base-liners, they'll start the fight, hold through it, and end it one way or another.

 

Perturabo's fourth are another, over the Fists, at least for the ground, you never know when you need to orbital drop a fortress for a slight reprieve against the nightmares without, and we saw a simulation (biased perhaps) of Perturabo holding the walls at Terra.

 

Dorn's fists, two words: Naval Superiority, or at least attempting to claw it from the enemy. They can scatter the nightmare's shock troops into the void while the IVth are smoking on the parapets.

 

Last, but not least, The Word Bearers, simply because someone must hold the line and die, and their martyrdom would provide the sorely needed moral boost in death as it would in their life. The world eaters would die too quickly, what is needed is time for the others to finish the fight, not enemy kills. Perturabo's bitter dregs can fulfill the role, but once they fall we have no centre, so the XVIIth forms the buffer.

 

Horus orchestrating it all.

[Marshal Rohr]

The Dauntless Few isn't about the legion forces fighting, it's about the commanders. By the end of the crusade legion forces are being superseded by auxilia deployments. The only reason the imperium is using legion forces is to crack targets the auxilia would require substantial resources to conquer. In reality, the actual legionaries the DF are in command of could vary or be absent entirely. It's about the Primarchs and their skills as generals.

[Scribe]

 

Yeah, Russ is a strategic commander. He illustrated that against Angron and his Legion though the point he was making fell on deaf ears...

Trying to convince the violently insane primarch not to be violently insane...by initiating violence against said violently insane primarch

 

Yes, absolute strategic genius on the part of Russ.

 

 

Must.resist.

 

If I had to do it over again.

 

Main Legion Blood Angels (cuz lets be real World Eaters are not a dauntless few option)

 

To take over another Human realm? Ultra's.

To obliterate some Xeno? Wolves. (and not of that Vlka Fenryka crap either WOLVES)

[ThatOneMarshal]

Since my (hopefully) main legion is night lords I would take the Death Guard or Iron Warriors. I can count on them accomplishing the mission due to stubbornness to accomplish the objective while I can do fun stuff like slaughter columns or soemthing also they won't judge me.

[Legionary Pallas]

After much musing I have finally thought of a practical answer. It still needs two other legions so tell me what you think this "Dauntless Few" needs.

 

So that you understand, I am looking at a force to bring human worlds into compliance, as quickly and efficiently as possible.

 

My legion: Luna Wolves

 

Legion 1: Ultramarines

Legion 2: Imperial Fists

Legion 3: ???

Legion 4: ???

 

My reasoning behind my choices:

1. The Luna Wolves are exactly what the Great Crusade needs, they can quickly conquer a planet by taking out it's leader and from the looks of it, that seems to result in a surrender, 9 times out of 10.

    

2. The Ultramarines have proved themselves as great empire builders, bringing about peace and infrastructure quickly and efficiently, they are also very tactically flexible able to deal with any who still oppose the Imperium. They take a "jack of all trades" role here and anything that the Luna Wolves can't defeat with their usual strategy, the Ultra's can definitely help with.

    

3. The Imperial Fists can defend almost anything, you put them on a planet that has been fortified and they could hold against the apocalypse. Not to mention their incredibly powerful and large fleet.

4. ???

5. ???

So, what do you think my "Dauntless Few" needs, it already has the masters of offense and the masters of defense, as well as the jack of all trades.

[Dantay VI]

If time was on your side then Alpha Legion, who could use operatives to weaken and destabilse a planets infrastructure making capture easier.

Otherwise the Raven Guard for operating ahead of the Van Guard, dropping in and sowing confusion by operating out of the shadows.

 

Space Wolves: The savage face of the legions. Controlled aggression,

However if too close in nature to the SoH, then White Scars for lightning strikes to unbalance the enemy.

[Legionary Pallas]

If time was on your side then Alpha Legion, who could use operatives to weaken and destabilse a planets infrastructure making capture easier.

Otherwise the Raven Guard for operating ahead of the Van Guard, dropping in and sowing confusion by operating out of the shadows.

 

Space Wolves: The savage face of the legions. Controlled aggression,

However if too close in nature to the SoH, then White Scars for lightning strikes to unbalance the enemy.

I think the Alpha Legion would be a bit slow to quickly conquer worlds in the way I'm intending, the idea behind it is: 

1. Luna Wolves offer peaceful integration, upon refusal they attack, kill leader figure, cause surrender, go to next planet.
2. Ultra's arrive before the Luna's leave and start making sure the peace goes well, they build fortresses and quick evacuation routes should the planet be attacked, and deal with any stragglers who still try to oppose their new overlords, then move to the next planet.
3. Imperial Fists leave a garrison of troops to defend the newly fortified planet that has been brought into complete compliance.

They all show up one after the other to do their bit then move on. It's like a train of efficiency, but the Alpha's are perhaps a bit too slow and have a bad habit of trying to secure victory in the most elaborate ways possible.

 

The White Scars is a good idea, they could arrive in the first wave with the Luna's and use their speed to locate the enemy leaders for quick assassination by the Luna's, and even cut off enemy reinforcements from reaching the the Luna Wolf speartip. Thanks, dantay, they seem like a good choice, but I ought to weigh up the others before adding anything.

 

New idea: Night Lords? I wouldn't want to fight alongside them but should all else fail and the planet still won't budge, the VIIIth always breaks their enemy.

[Jerichus]

Here's my take on the matter:

 

the full list:

 

Legion 1:Lion El'Jonson & the DA (Totally not biased or anything, I swears...) 

 

Legion 2: Leman Russ & the SW

 

Legion 3: Rogal Dorn & the IF

 

Here's why:

 

The main force of the Dark Angels(non-Caliban based) were undoubtedly super loyal; the Lion said it best in Savage Weapons: "Loyalty is it's own reward." They're here to hold the main line while other people do the crazy stuff. They faced the largest Xenos threat the Imperium has ever faced and held. Finally, The Lion is there to make the battle plan. He's the primarch with the greatest strategic mind, a consummate general. While Guilliman is a master logistician and statesman and Horus is more charismatic & the better leader; the Lion does strategy like no one else.

 

The Space Wolves: Do I even need to discuss why they'd be trusted? Literally no one(besides TSons) questioned their loyalty. The sons of Fenris are here to rock the party(as they tend to do) and be the vanguard: If a thousand screaming transhuman norsemen charge at you, you better believe your line is going to break a bit. They also have pretty good instincts thanks to the Canis Helix; I'd trust them to know what to take out in priority and what to ignore. Leman Russ, despite his exterior, is a very good commander. He's a wildcard that could think up tricks the other side wouldn't expect. Russ and the Lion are pretty good pals to boot.

 

Imperial Fists: see Space Wolves for the loyalty bit. Dorn's chosen are going to do what they do best; fortify and overrun. They'd be the reserve force; staying behind and refortifying it as the SW and DA move on to the next planet or redeploying forces if an area looks like it's faltering. they're the masters of conducting or defending a siege (on the loyalist side anyhow) and they would be shelling the location and causing disruption while the vanguard and main line are engaging the enemy. They'd also be in charge of any Naval battles that needed to happen. Put Dorn in charge of defending against a siege, and the other side won't have a very good time.

 

If I could add more I'd add Mr. Roboute and the blue man group for securing supply lines and helping either the main line or the reserves as needed, and the shiny angel-man and his blood angels for mobility and massed jump infantry spearheads to hit the leadership.

[Dantay VI]

You can also use the "barbaric" Space Wolves to play good cop-bad cop in negotiations Russ as bad cop all snarly and fangs being uncouth. Lion, Horus, Dorn or Guillemann as good cop obviously trying to be the voice of reason :)

[Marshal Rohr]

You can also use the "barbaric" Space Wolves to play good cop-bad cop in negotiations Russ as bad cop all snarly and fangs being uncouth. Lion, Horus, Dorn or Guillemann as good cop obviously trying to be the voice of reason :)

You can't play good cop, bad cop in diplomacy. It's negotiation, not interrogation. There is no incentive to reward irrational actors.

[Dantay VI]

Meh... I just figured he could use Russ like he uses his mournival from time to time.

 

Use them to intimidate and Horus steps in as peace maker

 

Russ... "Grrr I want to crush them, no more negotiating. To war!"

Unenlightened... "Ummm fine, then war it is!!"

Horus... "Lets not be hasty, we came in peace, to bring you into the fold of the Imperium. We do not wish war with you. Join us. If not then  have no choice but to release Russ and his legion up on you.... And if you think he is bad, wait till you face the rest of his warriors. Your women will weep for generation, if I do such a thing. Are you sure that is what you want for your people?"

[Marshal Rohr]

My point is that good cop, bad cop only works because the bad cop is insinuating he is going to violate a priori norms (laws), which don't exist in IR. For Russ to be a credible 'stick' the Imperium must already have used them demonstratively against the non-compliant society, and the threat of further unchecked violence then becomes a credible negotiating tool (but is also one of the weaker sticks in IR). Horus was brilliant because he understood soft power in ways only Guilliman and Vulkan did, while possessing the charisma to turn it into smart power. Of the Emperor's 'three swords' horus was the most successful because he was able to use the other two swords to provide the sticks while his charisma successfully convinced the non compliant that the carrots were worth the trade offs.