Start to DA advice

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Hello all

 

So I've decided to go ahead and build a Dark Angels Army. So far I have 2 DV sets worth of units and an extra bike squad (9 total bikers). What do you guys recommend for a 2000 point force? I'm pretty set on just doing a simple full company (4-6 tacticals, 2 assaults, 2 devs) with ravenwing support.. Probably 3rd company because I think they'll be easier to paint their company marking. Are Razorbacks with using for DA in 7th edition, I was thinking about having a very mobile force? Any recommendations on HQ units? Also I do not have the newest codex yet.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Master of Ceremonies]

From what you say, if you want mobility, I think the thing to go for is the Lion's Blade strike force in a battle company. At 2,000 points you could take the battle company with all our free transports. It would limit the HQ you could use though:

 

5 x tac squad - free razorback

5 x tac squad - free razorback

5 x tac squad - free razorback

 

Company Master

 

5 x dev squad - free razorback

5 x assault squad - free razorback

 

 

5 x tac squad - free razorback

5 x tac squad - free razorback

5 x tac squad - free razorback

 

Chaplain

 

5 x dev squad - free razorback

5 x assault squad - free razorback

 

Comes to about 850 points minimum, not including any upgrades e.g. heavy weapons for the devs or special weapons for the tacticals/assault marines. When finished, depending on how you equip them, you are looking at around 1,000 points or a bit over.

 

If you do this, and include one of the auxiliary choices, then for that you get to fire full ballistic skill overwatch, and you get 10 free razorbacks - yep, no cost at all. That's 550 points for free, each with a free heavy bolter (though no other upgrades). Or, if you give your assault marines jump packs, it's 8 free razorbacks, or 440 free points.

 

Imagine how many objectives you can control with 10 free razorbacks - it's just silly.

 

For the rest of the army, you would want to choose something from the auxiliary choices - I think you could choose 3 or 4 Ravenwing attack Squadrons.

 

3 x Ravenwing Bikes - 2 x grav guns each = 120

1 x Ravenwing Land Speeder - typhoon missile launcher = 75

 

3 x Ravenwing Bikes - 2 x grav guns each = 120

1 x Ravenwing Land Speeder - typhoon missile launcher = 75

 

3 x Ravenwing Bikes - 2 x grav guns each = 120

1 x Ravenwing Land Speeder - typhoon missile launcher = 75

 

3 x Ravenwing Bikes - 2 x grav guns each = 120

1 x Ravenwing Land Speeder - typhoon missile launcher = 75

 

At 2,000 points you have virtually total board control with all your free transports and bike mobility. This is basically a min/max list, though, don't play it in friendly games. But this is the kind of thing you could aim for - use your free transports and bikes to control the board, make use of full ballistic skill overwatch.

 

 

 

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Great! That sounds awesome

 

Other than board control and the fact that they're free, why give Razorbacks to the Devs?

 

Should I have that many Razorbacks in a list or would it be good to have 4-6 Razorbacks then roll with a few full squad tacticals in rhinos?

[Master of Ceremonies]

The only reason I'm suggesting Razorbacks for everything is because they are the most expensive dedicated transport option that you can get for free. So you could deploy Devs normally if you like, but could still take a free Razorback with them and start it on the board empty. That way you still have a mobile heavy bolter that can create cover and take objectives for free. 

 

I would avoid Rhinos. The reason for all the Razorbacks and 5 man squads is because the special bonuses for taking a full battle company say that you can take a free dedicated transport (Rhino, Razorback, or Drop Pod) for every unit that can take them. If you take a 10 man tac squad you only get one, if you take two 5 man ones you can have two. If there are only 5 men to carry there is no reason not to get a Razorback.

 

I quite enjoy the idea of replacing all the Razorbacks with Drop Pods, and have an almost complete drop pod spam landing on all the objectives, but it would be much less reliable. 

 

Take as many Razorbacks as you can. Literally the only thing that should stop you is the physical cost of all those models. There are no drawbacks and they cost nothing unless you want to give them upgrades.

[Epher]

I second  the motion, free razorbacks are the way to go.  I would recommend an odd number of drop pods too.  Three is what I run with a battle company.  It is a great way to get a dreadnought into the battle, even if you take just one.  Your bikes won't let you down if you play them smart.  If you can get your hands on some grav guns, give them to a squad of bikers.  Relentless bikers are a beautiful thing!

[Isiah]

Great advice here :tu:. Best of luck with your DA prey_fall2_the_grey.

 

Cheers

I

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Thanks everybody. My first and main Army are Space Wolves.. I got my Drop Pod list covered there and want to try something different. SWs are so non-traditional it's nice to be building an army from the ground up that mostly adheres to the codex standards. I was way more interested in tanks and termies for my wolves than troops so for DAs I'm gonna do the opposite and build from the ground up with a solid troop base.

 

Do I need anything more hard hitting other than bikers?

 

Where can I go to find out what major battles the companies have been in? I already said I'm leaning 3rd company, but would change if I found another company were more badasses

[Chaplain Lucifer]

There's not many fluff about battle company battles, it foucus more on DW and RW... but the usual suspect is 3rd company, that seem to fight "everywhere".

[Lord Commander Vulkus Dorn]

Well I'm trying to figure out the cheapest way to make an effective 1850 army. I have the DV set w/ LE chappy and the DV expansion. The wife's not too keen on the prices of this stuff so any help would be appreciated

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Cheapest way would be hitting eBay or similar, you can get really good deals there!

[Solrac]

Although free Razorbacks are good I wouldn't tell anyone to ignore Rhinos. People that do fail to realise how effective Rhino's can be when you have Grav Cannon's inside (2 Grav Cannons on a Dev Squad in a Rhino is quite awesome). When you have that many vehicles you can have all your Grav Cannons in Rhinos hold the line on your table edge and creates a null zone where your enemy won't want to get in range. Also if your enemy wants to assault a Rhino with a Grav Cannon they can still overwatch at full BS.

 

On the weekend my opponent had a sword armed Wraithknight on four wounds charge a my "lowly" Tac squad with Grav Cannon in a Rhino. Scored 5 hits and killed it in overwatch after he failed his 5++ and FNP.

 

If you don't plan on taking Grav Cannon's then by all means definitely go the Razorback.

[Master of Ceremonies]

Although free Razorbacks are good I wouldn't tell anyone to ignore Rhinos. People that do fail to realise how effective Rhino's can be when you have Grav Cannon's inside (2 Grav Cannons on a Dev Squad in a Rhino is quite awesome). When you have that many vehicles you can have all your Grav Cannons in Rhinos hold the line on your table edge and creates a null zone where your enemy won't want to get in range. Also if your enemy wants to assault a Rhino with a Grav Cannon they can still overwatch at full BS.

 

On the weekend my opponent had a sword armed Wraithknight on four wounds charge a my "lowly" Tac squad with Grav Cannon in a Rhino. Scored 5 hits and killed it in overwatch after he failed his 5++ and FNP.

 

If you don't plan on taking Grav Cannon's then by all means definitely go the Razorback.

Yea that's a good point. If you plan on using the firing openings in the tanks, take Rhinos. 

[GruntAngel]

2 rhinos for mobile dev squad platform that are equiped with 2 grav cannons is appealing for a Lion Blade. It allow you to save a few points by taking only 5 models instead of having to buff it up to take some loss and prevent losing the grav cannons too quickly.

 

Also I was thinking: ain't it amazingly profitable to equip as many razorback with lascannons and/or plasma gun? Why not keep the rest of the army as plain as possible to have points to field as many mobile special weapons as you can afford?

[Solrac]

Whenever I make a double demi list I always have all the Razorbacks upgraded with Twin-linked Lascannons because it's the same cost as upgrading a marine with a single Lascannon. It means I still have some good anti-tank running around at a minimum and if the Razorback moves 12" to take an objective or get into position the twin-linked makes it a bit more effective shooting at a flyer.

[Chmur]

I would suggest converting one of the Librarians and the bike sergeant from DV into Libby on a bike.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Thanks for all the replies!

So, why a librarian on a bike as opposed to on foot in a rhino or razorback?

Do you have any recommendations on future purchases on my way up to have a full company? I just got my DV tactical squad from ebay and now have 30 tactical marines. I've stripped and repurposed a SWs Rhino to be used for the Dark Angels. I really wanna get the reclusiam command squad because it seems like a pretty nice box set with a great model to use a interrogator chaplain. When it comes to Heavy Support... do you have any recommendations there? Or would  2 units of Devs be more than enough support for an Army list 2000 points and lower?

Also, which razorback variation do you guys recommend? I've really had fun with the standard heavy bolter razorbacks when I used it for my space wolves. I really feel like that gun is underrated. I was considering doing half of my RBs as Lascannon and the other half asscans.

[Pigshead]

Libby on a bike is T5, which is obviously nicer than T4. Plus he's more mobile.

 

Personally I go for las/plas Razorbacks all the time.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

So what is the benefit of having MSU of bikers as opposed to have 2 units of 6 bikers?

[Cactus]

You can spread your teleport homers across a larger area, giving you more options and your opponent more headaches with your Deathwing. You can threaten more objectives, pulling your opponent around the battlefield where you win with superior mobility. Some people don't think boltguns get results but with minimum size units two thirds of your models carry a melta, plasma or grav gun.

 

I use Ravenwing in support of other companies so I favour larger units that are more resilient. However I will sometimes form combat squads to get the better teleport homer coverage, or just to hide them out of line of sight.

[Grand Master Raziel]

What Cactus said.  Also, MSU gives you more special/heavy weapon saturation.  Another point in favor of putting the Libby on the bike as opposed to having him ride in one of the tracks is that he can freely cast all his powers, whereas from a transport he can only cast Witchfires.

 

One thing to bear in mind is that the dual-Lion's Blade lists (and dual Gladius if vanilla marines) are not considered "nice" lists.  Whether to use them or not can depend on the meta in your area.

 

One thing I'd like to mention - I cannot say enough good things about Ravenwing Black Knights/Ravenwing Command Squads.  They are my go-to unit for cracking something hard.  One bad thing about the Lion's Blade is that it doesn't give you easy access to RWBKs - you have to take either a small CAD or a small Ravenwing Strike Force to get them.

 

Oh - if/when you do get transports, if possible get unassembled Razorback kits.  They come with the Rhino top-hatch doors.  You don't have to glue down the top plate with the turret ring - gravity holds it in place just fine when you're playing.  That way, you can swap out the tops, and use each track as either a Rhino or a Razorback as you see fit.  I've done this with almost all of my Rhino-hull vehicles.  Pro tip - glue the two top hatch doors together to make them one piece.  Easier to keep track of them that way.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Raziel, I did realize it is a pretty nasty list.. I'd probably bring if I'm in a non CAD tourney.

I'm new to Dark Angels but not Marines so I'm pretty up to speed on Razorbacks and magnetizing.

 

Thanks for the information guys! I haven't got my codex yet, but in everything I'm learning about DAs I'm feeling like they're going to be really fun!

 

Do you have any pointers for anti-air?

[frostbite]

Raziel, I did realize it is a pretty nasty list.. I'd probably bring if I'm in a non CAD tourney.

 

I'm new to Dark Angels but not Marines so I'm pretty up to speed on Razorbacks and magnetizing.

 

Thanks for the information guys! I haven't got my codex yet, but in everything I'm learning about DAs I'm feeling like they're going to be really fun!

 

Do you have any pointers for anti-air?

 

Outside the Nephilim (which I don't rate), the DAs have no native AA without going to Forgeworld. If you and your group are happy with FW (I know not everyone is), then I recommend either the Mk5 Mortis Dreadnought, or the Contemptor Mortis Dread. Other than that, you can use the allies system to include the AA vehicles from C:SM.

[jbaeza94]

 

Raziel, I did realize it is a pretty nasty list.. I'd probably bring if I'm in a non CAD tourney.

 

I'm new to Dark Angels but not Marines so I'm pretty up to speed on Razorbacks and magnetizing.

 

Thanks for the information guys! I haven't got my codex yet, but in everything I'm learning about DAs I'm feeling like they're going to be really fun!

 

Do you have any pointers for anti-air?

 

Outside the Nephilim (which I don't rate), the DAs have no native AA without going to Forgeworld. If you and your group are happy with FW (I know not everyone is), then I recommend either the Mk5 Mortis Dreadnought, or the Contemptor Mortis Dread. Other than that, you can use the allies system to include the AA vehicles from C:SM.

 

why not a deredeo? the anvillus autocannon is great against fliers. Skyfire and interceptor, heavy 4 s8 tl, reroll pens. ontop of this it has a heavy s3 s6 missle that does not require los and always hits side armor. also a tl heavy bolter. its a pretty good aa platform.

 

another option is the aegis quad gun

 

edit: also bs5, the other 2 mortis got nerfed to bs4 sadly :/

[frostbite]

 

why not a deredeo? the anvillus autocannon is great against fliers. Skyfire and interceptor, heavy 4 s8 tl, reroll pens. ontop of this it has a heavy s3 s6 missle that does not require los and always hits side armor. also a tl heavy bolter. its a pretty good aa platform.

 

another option is the aegis quad gun

 

edit: also bs5, the other 2 mortis got nerfed to bs4 sadly :/

 

 

Totally forgot about the Dorito! Good shout, those autocannon are brilliant. They're also cheaper than the Contemptor (assuming the Contemptor has twin Kheres and a cyclone), though not very cheap at more than 200pts. The Aegis is another good idea, but you do need a character to man it. Techmarines work really well for that.