Sete Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 So anyone have read it? Any opinions? It clearly puts to rest the whole Traitor/Loyalist DA shenanigans the way I see it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
veterannoob Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 I've listened to the audio 5-6 times but didn't buy the e-book version last week. Personally, I love it and pick out more each time I go back through it and know more about the Heresy. Good story and I like how broad it looks at Caliban (not just one slice of DA, or even all Marines at that). I'm assuming you read it. It's a nice build up for Angels of Caliban and I will absolutely listen to it yet again right before devouring AoC when that comes out. So I'm a fan:) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4322230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 I read the e-book when it was released last week, and I'll probably re-read it a few more times but I was confused as to Astelan's actual motives for siding with Luther. Promotion to Chapter Master, eventually usurping Luther, and some distrust in the Lion? Is his distrust solely due to being exiled to Caliban? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4322377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted February 29, 2016 Author Share Posted February 29, 2016 From my understanding, ye astelan would then try to usurp the power from Luther. It is implied at the end. Basically the Calibanites on the planet where traitors. And the loyal terrans were imprisioned. I liked it. Gave answer to a lot of questions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4322407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 You should read it more carefully :) Rebels were also Calibanites, not to mention that Astelan is err...terran? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4322483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted February 29, 2016 Author Share Posted February 29, 2016 Some of them sure. But the main bulk were the Terran born legionnaires. And Astelan is a filthy snake. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4322778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Did I got it right? Luther + calibanite DAs = traitors terran born, exiled DAs = loyal but imprisoned Astelan = loyal to the Imperium but distrustful to the Lion But after the battle between Luther and Johnson, all DAs on Caliban will be sucked into the warp. Because of their different loyalties we have Fallen Angels who still work for the good of mankind (terran born) and those who aligned themselves with chaos (caliban born). Well that would make sense and explain why we have different types of Fallen Angels. For me, Astelan is still a mystery like Cypher. ^^" Either they will keep explaining how it all came to be or in the next book everything will be rearranged to let us again guessing and plotting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4322980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 Na Astelan is like Traitor Traitor. He is not loyal to the Imperium any more. I think he might be currputed by Chaos since he insinuates that he serves a bigger power than the Emperor. He basically betrays the Loyal DA and is planning on betraying Luther. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4323045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Here's a merc. All he does is roll with the biggest baddy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4323078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carach Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Na Astelan is like Traitor Traitor. He is not loyal to the Imperium any more. I think he might be currputed by Chaos since he insinuates that he serves a bigger power than the Emperor. He basically betrays the Loyal DA and is planning on betraying Luther. don't remember him saying that anywhere. He merely says he serves the guy with the power. And currently Luther has the power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4323742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Sete what's your point? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4324032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted March 2, 2016 Author Share Posted March 2, 2016 Ill re read it so I can put the passage here. He says a new power is rising and it would be futile do decry it. Just like when hes people were exterminated by the Imperium, trying to defy it would just be vanity. Same thing is happening now. A new power is rising, and it is futile to fight it. A power bigger than the Emps, its chaos. Could be Horus tho. And he serves Luther, for now at least. Its the last paragraph. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4324164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 "New power is raising" is about Luther, not about chaos. Besides he didn't say anything about "greater power". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4324591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted March 2, 2016 Author Share Posted March 2, 2016 Where did you read a greater power? i dont think the new power rising is Luther.Astelan will follow him for now at least... being these the key words.h Seems like there is something more on the picture here. my interpretation ofc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4324676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Where did you read a greater power? i dont think the new power rising is Luther.Astelan will follow him for now at least... being these the key words.h Seems like there is something more on the picture here. my interpretation ofc. In your post: A new power is rising, and it is futile to fight it. A power bigger than the Emps, its chaos. Could be Horus tho. There are no basis to think that Astelan meant chaos (no evidence he even knows about chaos) and neither could he refer to Horus because DA on Caliban were cut off and ignorant of the rebellion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4324927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 The power bigger than Emps can only be Chaos. That is my view on it. Not Astelan words. Luther is not that big of a player that Astelan would follow him instead of the Emperor. Its on his plans to betray him already. I'm not presenting evidence, just logical assumptions. We currently dont know if he knows about Horus rebelion or not, if he knows, that would explain the new power rising, if he does not, its not Luther aswell. Luther is just a steeping stone on his plan to take control of the Legion. I think its safe to assume that he knows more than he is letting trought. He is using Luther betrayal to further is plans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4324935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Well, I prefere to stick to the facts in this case. There is no fragment suggesting that Astelan has to do anything with chaos, and he never said anything about power "bigger than Emperor". Just that "different power is rising". I think it was flattery meant for Luther especially when in the next sentence he calls Lion "a taint", blames him for the fall of the First and pledges himself into service "of the more worthy lord" - which is Luther. Of course we later see he's only paving a way for his eventual takeover of the Legion and if he calls Luther a "raising power" it is because he's opportunist and schemer who . We know for certain that he knows nothing about Horus rebellion because he's stuck on Caliban with other 'out of favour' Dark Angels who are not aware of the events in the wider world. Mayby (theory) even if Luther knew about Horus and (didn't share the knowledge), Astelan was not part of his inner circle before the provocation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4324995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 There is no fragment sugestting otherwise aswell. Ofc he never said a power bigger than the Emperor again those were my words. Read the part about a different power rising. He starts with the Emperor Exterminating his people. Then he was chosen to be a facet of that power. Now that a different power is rising he changed sides again. If you really think thats Luther be my guest. He already has Luther in his pocket telling him what he wants to hear, and delivering him the rebellion in a silver plate. By his orders, the Lion fleet was shoot when returning to Caliban. Na this guy is in for something big. Bigger than Luther and the 1st Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4325053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 ...And he refers to Luther, yes. And when saying it he doesn't mean it obviously. That's how lies work. Why do you assume it's otherwise? You said it yourself: And Astelan is a filthy snake. He's a liar and schemer and that's exactly what he did when talking with Luther. On one hand you accept that Astelan is just a manipulator and a liar on the other you take his monologue as an unquestioned truth and make assumptions on it (chaos). Let's just agree to disagree. Nevertheless Astelan became a very interesting character and I can't wait to read about his games and his rise to power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4325094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 His putting honey words on Luthers ears. I just think there is more to it than just the control of the Legion. But indeed Astelan got interesting. Eager to get more stories about pre heresy DA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4325125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaSY Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Astelan definitely did not have liking for Chaos but retained the same disdain towards the Emperor, Lion and Luther. Really hoping he can make a good comeback in the 40k series... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319839-master-of-the-first-spoilers/#findComment-4325849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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