Terminating the Legions.

[Kais Klip]

Happy Monday everyone. I'm on one of those phases where I'm musing on topics regarding my legion preferences. I decided to write down how each legion would face a unilateral grave threat, independently of each other and other Imperial assets.

 

Then I figured, what better way to find out a legion's characteristics then in seeing the way it dies?

 

So here it is, I'm looking for your thoughts on this scenario; shortly before the outbreak of the heresy, the Imperium accomplishes its goal of galactic dominance and decides to terminate the legions in the next step of the Emperor's master plan. Spare the unrealism in non-cooperation between the legions, but how do you reckon each one would fare?

 

And oops, I just realised I missed the possibility of the XVII'th engaging in daemonic warfare and all the warp space shenanigans they could conjure up. Legion haven within the warp, perhaps?

 

I'm also looking on thoughts regarding the XV developing webway-like assets.

 

I: Fled into the outer dark, consistently spear outer rim-side fortifications in crushing raids for resources and war materiel, ingrained information networks keep them appraised of chinks in the outer-rim line. Solitary outposts destroyed when found.

 

III: Destroyed, cornered after a series of brilliant manoeuvres and stratagems are repeatedly betrayed by human underhandedness and ingenuity in unorthodox tactics. Legion Naval assets culled, majority of stranded ground assets isolated and destroyed. Solitary outposts destroyed, relics and war materiel scattered.

 

IV: Legion assets counterattack, overrun and refortify bastion worlds, manufactorums and several forgeworlds. All manufactorums scuttled, forgeworlds overrun and scuttled, bastion worlds cordoned off and contained.

 

V: Completely at large, raiding and fleeing indiscriminately. The Great Game is in effect.

 

VI: Hounded down, rogue war bands reported destroyed by Legion war bands in apparent fratricide edicts handed down by Imperial Leadership.

 

VII: Significant Legion fleet assets engaged and destroyed by the Imperial navy at long range over key strongpoints, infantry-held strongholds cordoned and eliminated by Imperial Army over time. Asset "Phalanx" unaccounted for, presumed to be within the inner galactic rim maelstrom.

 

VIII: Scattered into the night, full strength but incohensive. Major raiding and system incursions in large. A consistent compromise to galactic stability.

 

X: Destroyed, major armoured assets and set piece engagements eradicated by Titan legions and mass Imperial armour formations, higher hierarchy absorbed within the mechanicum.

 

XII: Cornered and destroyed in monstrously large but numerically few engagements. All assets terminated by the Imperium.

 

XIII: Mixture of stratagems utilised, some isolated assets engaged and destroyed after protracted orthodox and unorthodox warfare. Numerous assets still at large at the mercy of their chosen stratagems. Segmentum "Ultima" still contested. Further Imperial forces and Titan war assets requested by Segmentum command.

 

XIV: Imperial infantry unable to make intact contact with Legion infantry assets. Imperial armour unable to engage legion infantry assets. Legion armoured assets destroyed. Legion naval assets destroyed. Legion infantry assets resilient to naval bombardment. Legion infantry assets cordoned off within impassable locales.

 

XV: Clandestine Imperial assets dispatched to terminate Legion assets alongside standard Imperial personnel and war materiel. Legion armour and infantry assets terminated, major Legion covert presence suspected.

 

XVI: Split into infinite war bands after shattered, albeit successful, spear thrust to decapitate the head of the new order. Decapitation of ultimate leadership successful at the cost of Lupercal, remaining Legion assets hounded down and destroyed after similar "spear thrus" attacks aimed at lower Imperial leadership. Imperial leadership crippled.

 

XVII: Legion assets engaged and destroyed within seized Legion strong-worlds, numerous Imperial personnel and war assets declared excommunicate traitoris and terminated alongside.

 

XVIII: Legion assets surrendered and terminated.

 

XIX: Unable to reliably locate mass legion assets. Legion assets consistent threat to Imperial leadership and logistical hubs.

 

XX: All Legion assets terminated.

[helterskelter]

Is the alpha legion one purely put there by the alpha legion so you think they're destroyed? I'd love to see who wrote the report on that.

Meanwhile on Terra, record keeper Bob is logging new reports...

"New tattoo bob?"

"Yeah you like?"

"What does it mean?"

"I am alphar.... I mean it's a myth, snake thingy"

[Kais Klip]

No, the Alpha Legion is destroyed, brother. Gone, shattered, scattered to the wind. Destroyed, in all sense of the word. That's why I'm at this terminal. I'm erasing any and all information ever held on the Alpha Legion, so that even in memory they will never blight us again. Excommunicate Traitoris. I am also ordering you and your subordinates to never mention them again.

 

For the Emperor, brother.

[Dizzyeye01]

It is very simple actually, Horus was just the first to use the technique

But seriously, I'll list a few Legions that come to mind in terms of how to end them. A lot of them do involve deception.

Ultramarines: Swarm them. Literally give them too many tactics them them to combat so that they eventually die. Just make sure that you cut off their way of escape. Just look at what happened to the Warborn at Osiris (Ultramarines' pre-primarch).

Raven Guard: Get them onto plain, open ground where there is nowhere to hide. Their main strength is ambushing their foes so make sure you have them in you're sights before you take them down with everything you have.

Sons of Horus: Horus needs to be killed if there is any chance for them to be broken. He is quite literally their will. Just look at the Scouring before they managed to regroup as the Black Legion. Only just make sure you take out any influential leaders who can regroup them.

White Scars: Rob them their mobility, urban warfare comes to mind however make sure there are no easy routes. Roads and so on need road blocks capable of repeling mobile forces or mining the roads would also be effective.

Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists: Hit and run tactics. Cut off their supply lines and bleed them by a thousand cuts then move in for the killing blow.

I'll list more legions when I think of them.

[Kais Klip]

You're right in the ways of killing each one of those, but how would you force those legions into such suicidally-unfavourable engagements. Apart from calling their captain a prissy. The Sons of Horus is one of the more obvious ones, in which you'd simply have to bait Horus to drop down to a prepared kill zone with a very tasty, suitably high leadership morsel (Just stand on the red ex, Sir), then simply gun down the retinue and Horus the Warmaster himself. Simply...

 

But as to the others? Per your example, just locating the Raven guard, who'd no doubt be scattered, would be a nightmare, as would pinning the White Scars to a specific engagement. You could again, perhaps bait the Ravens with strategic morsel and wait in hiding, but more often than not you'd find your hiding spot already taken, no?

 

And the IVth and VIIth, the latter fine, but how would you cut off the Iron Warrior supply point when they literally fortify, gnash their teeth and camp their fatalistic power armoured asses onto it, something I tried to represent in my initial theory run.

 

We know that Imperial mortal Navy is more than a match for that of the Legions' as long as they keep them at arms length, but what about the legions that refuse to engage, or those that find themselves predisposed to resist orbital bombardment (death guard and the two campers come to mind).

[Lord Blackwood]

In no way do I see this topic ending well

[Kais Klip]

This whole thing is a scheme to lure the Auxilia players out of hiding.

[Atia]

Hydra Dominatus?

[Hesh Kadesh]

I don't think those words mean what you think they mean. I still don't understand your premise.

[DuskRaider]

All you have to do is feed the VIth chocolate, nature will take care of the rest.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Um, who's doing the destroying in this hypothetical? The Imperial Army? That's not gonna end well, as any Legion outclasses the Imperial Army in pretty much every way. Assuming this is so, the answer's essentially the same for any of the 18 Legions. Goonswarm. Flood the Astartes (and whatever elements of their Expedition Fleets 'count' here) with so many waves of dudes eventually the Legions will fall to attrition.

 

 

We know that Imperial mortal Navy is more than a match for that of the Legions' as long as they keep them at arms length

This reads more like a comparison of the Adeptus Astartes vs Imperial Navy than the Legiones Astartes vs Void Assets of the Imperial Army. The Legion fleets were easily a match (if not outright superior) to the Army ships at range, let alone up close when boarding comes into play.

 

More likely outcome from 'Great Crusade over'? Several of the more unreliable Legions get the axe, delivered by various Imperial agents, perhaps some staunchly loyal Legions, surprise and shenanigans. The remainder, probably downsized as recruitment rates can slow, remain either as Gulliman imagines in Know No Fear, essentially as a new civil service, or as a standing military to guard against currently unseen threats. As it would be silly to think that all possible threats to humanity haver been removed by the GC.

 

However, you want all the Legions gone. Send them beyond the Halo Stars, beyond the Astronomicon. With the Galaxy secured, their 'role' becomes pre-emptive seek and destroy. Maybe they do this, maybe they all die in the voids at the Galaxy's edge. But send them into the unknown darkness, the Eternal Crusaders. No messy purges, survivors etc. Then old Empy can get down to running his freshly conquered Galaxy.

[Kais Klip]

I don't think those words mean what you think they mean. I still don't understand your premise.

You're leading the Imperium. How do you kill each legion, without resorting to using other Legions.

 

Custodes are at you disposal but limited, and if you make a new Legion to kill the Legions, logic states they would have to be eventually killed as well, so avoid that route.

[Kronos]

I would do something like start a civil war between them...

Those remaining would be sufficiently weakened to be picked off by auxillia, mechanicum, custodes and what ever other army is at my disposal. I may even get my best lieutenant to carry out a white flag, ensuring 4 legions, including his own, would almost be decimated, if not worse. Ultimately he is the only one that fully understands the reason behind his creation is to unite and finally perish. There is no place for such monsters of war. Unfortunately Chaos is a fickle thing to plan. 

 

[Stercus]

Did you intend to leave out the blood angels from the initial list?

[Kais Klip]

I've never been heavily invested in the Blood Angels, so I didn't even dabble. Page's all yours to write on ;)

 

Perhaps a grimdark Ride of the Valkyries.

[Dizzyeye01]

You're right in the ways of killing each one of those, but how would you force those legions into such suicidally-unfavourable engagements. Apart from calling their captain a prissy. The Sons of Horus is one of the more obvious ones, in which you'd simply have to bait Horus to drop down to a prepared kill zone with a very tasty, suitably high leadership morsel (Just stand on the red ex, Sir), then simply gun down the retinue and Horus the Warmaster himself. Simply...

But as to the others? Per your example, just locating the Raven guard, who'd no doubt be scattered, would be a nightmare, as would pinning the White Scars to a specific engagement. You could again, perhaps bait the Ravens with strategic morsel and wait in hiding, but more often than not you'd find your hiding spot already taken, no?

And the IVth and VIIth, the latter fine, but how would you cut off the Iron Warrior supply point when they literally fortify, gnash their teeth and camp their fatalistic power armoured asses onto it, something I tried to represent in my initial theory run.

We know that Imperial mortal Navy is more than a match for that of the Legions' as long as they keep them at arms length, but what about the legions that refuse to engage, or those that find themselves predisposed to resist orbital bombardment (death guard and the two campers come to mind).

Cannon has some great examples. Istavaan 5 broke three legions after all. Calth also comes to mind. Send them against a foe that the Imperium hates then send in the killing blow while they are still together. In fact, let's get a bit darker here. Tell them a sector has gone rogue whilst cutting all communication of said sector. White Scars and Raven Guard are now traitors to the Imperium and the Emperor suffers no draw back.

 

Now for the Iron Warriors you send them into a Istavaan 3 situation first. You send them on the offensive and don't give them time to set up a defense. Ambushes from the get go, that kind of thing, in fact....give them a treat of their old medicine. Put them through a Iron Cage situation and you have another dead legion in your hands, though instead you have martyrs who fought valiantly but eventually fell.

 

If anything, the trickiest legions to beat would be the Ultramarines and the Alpha Legion. The Ultramarines are practically an empire in their own right and the Alpha Legion are that unknown we don't know how many there truely are. If we're going to defeat the Ultramarines then we're gonna need to cut their supply lines. Or do we? Why cut when you can poison them, use them to you're advantage? Like the Alpha Legion did to the Emperors Swords, we warp their recruits, implant them to be inside agents and when unleash....they lose control utterly. For them it's madness and lose themselves so much that the Emperor can only give them mercy right? Right? Ultramar itself can recover but how could you trust an Ultramarine after that?

 

And the Alpha Legion? What can we do to them? Kill their primarch? The cells will just find a new leader or strike out on their own and damage the Imperium. So we use this to our advantage. Call a new Great Crusade. One that'll expand the borders even further than before. With the Alpha Legion at it's head. But it goes wrong. The fleets never return back, no word is heard from them ever again. The Alpha Legion is gone, lost. Was it sabotage? Did the warp drives malfunction and send legionaires into the Warp by mistake? You're word is as good as mine after all ;)

[Phalanx Warder]

Given the nature and pure size of the Legions an attack on one is an attack on the others, especially when its the Emperors agents and regular human units trying to kill the Legions. It would result on open warfare between the legions and humanity. That is a war that the Imperium would loose. 

 

I think that the big E, having fought the battle beneath the Palace would feed the Legions into the fight piecemeal if destruction of the Legions was the end game. That would buy him time to figure out how to close the damn thing and once the last of his Angels of death stormed into the breach he could simply close the portal and wash his hands.

 

Even today we can see many entire galaxies beyond that of our own I think he could also just send them off their and be done also.

[Brother Aiwass]

The Emperor wanted to destroy the legiones, this is why using his power he bended the powers of Chaos, and used them to fool Horus to do his job. Horus had to be terminated asap because he realised abut the trick, but was too late. The rotting corpse in the Golden Throne is the unrecognizable figure of Sanguinius. The Emperor rules now the Imperium in disguise, with an iron fist.