no scoring and implacable advance

[Runefyre]

Would Guilliman's preternatural strategy rules allow contemptor cortus to score? My gut feeling is no but I thought I'd ask.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Hmm, tricky one.

Preternatural Strategy would simply add the Implacable Advance rule to their unit entry.

But the Unstable Internment would still be there as well, since it wouldn't be removed from the units list of special rules.

So, the particular sentence '... it can never be a scoring unit.'  would still be there, effectively making Implacable Advance useless.

But that would just be my take on it. Others opinions may differ.

[Runefyre]

That's were I'm leaning, perhaps I'll e-mail FW about it.

[Quixus]

That's were I'm leaning, perhaps I'll e-mail FW about it.

Do that, because neither rule takes precedence over the other. They are both "codex" rules.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Contemptor Cortus have no innate ability to score anyway regaddless of special rules so the rule would be redundant unless there is somethingbwhich would allow them to score.

[Runefyre]

Contemptor Cortus have no innate ability to score anyway regaddless of special rules so the rule would be redundant unless there is somethingbwhich would allow them to score.

It just says can never be a scoring unit, not regardless of special rules, don't know if that makes a difference in interpretation though. never generally means never. I sent an email to FW yesterday, still no response, I'll post their answer if they get around to it.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Contemptor Cortus are an elites unit. In 30k, elites can't score anyway, so the rule does nothing unless there is some special rule to let them score anyway.

 

There is no real precedence or order of operations, there is just a flat 'cannot score', in the same way that an Assault Vehicle allows charges to be declared in the same turn as disembark, but Deep Strike preventing even Assault vehicles allowing Deep Strike on a charge.

 

If you've worked with logic gates, or computer programming, it is like it requires both to be in a particular condition ie 'is scoring' and 'isnot Unstable Internment' to be ticked.

[Runefyre]

So what you're saying is that elites cannot inherently score unless they have implacable advance, and a contemptor cortus has a rule that it can never score, so when you add in implacable advance to the cortus you default back to the parent rule, which is that elites don't score. In essence they cancel each other out which means you're left with an elites choice, which cannot score as stated in the age of darkness ruleset.

[Slips]

The only things in 30k That can Score are Troops and units with Implacable Advance.

 

Everything else is a Denial Unit.

 

The only time they'd be able to get scoring is by getting buffed by Guilliman.

 

But they override his ability to do so by never being able to score even if they get the rule through the above means or something similar.

 

Another example would be World Eater Red Butchers. Under Pride of the Legion they can be taken as Troops meaning they would normally be able to score. However, they have a rule that states they can never be scoring.

 

So, at best, they deny, same with the Cortus. At best, it denies a scoring unit from doing so.

 

We do not use 7th Editions "everything scores" method.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Not really, although the result is the same.

 

There is no 'cancelling out' (as in the case of a straight bonus and negative, or reroll success and reroll failure), the oroginal rule just flat out states you can never score.

 

There is no way whatsoever, short of a specific exclusion to that rule, or the removal of that rule.

 

Unfortunately, FW doesn't seem to understand that it cannot deal with absolutes, then introduce exceptions without properly qualifying as such.

 

There are two ways I can think of to get a Cortus to score (in absense of itsnspecific exclusion); Guilliman and the new Dreadnought Rite of War. There may be another. However, the presence of that special rule stopping them from ever scoring, means that they do not score.

[Runefyre]

Thanks for the through (and satisfactory) answers Hesh and Slipstreams, and my question has been answered so  there's probably no further need for this topic unless somebody else has an opinion to share.