Sulemain Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 TV Tropes says Graham McNeil writes of of Perturabo being favourably disposed to democratic government, but I can't recall the text where this is mentioned. Anyone got anything? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 When he first took control of the Legion, he allowed the Astartes to vote who would continue on in the Legion... ... you know, by forcing them to kill each other. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4330987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 When he first took control of the Legion, he allowed the Astartes to vote who would continue on in the Legion... ... you know, by forcing them to kill each other. *Slow clap* In Angel Exterminatus, one of the few times Graham McNeill wrote a compelling Primarch, Perturabo was day dreaming about a city he wanted to build, only to have the whole thing ruined by Graham McNeill's inclusion of Fulgrim and not leaving well enough alone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saa Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 When he first took control of the Legion, he allowed the Astartes to vote who would continue on in the Legion... ... you know, by forcing them to kill each other. *Slow clap* In Angel Exterminatus, one of the few times Graham McNeill wrote a compelling Primarch, Perturabo was day dreaming about a city he wanted to build, only to have the whole thing ruined by Graham McNeill's inclusion of Fulgrim and not leaving well enough alone. That's the pain I have with Angel Exterminatus. A lot of people hate the book and I always wondered why, because I revelled in the character depth given to Perturabo. I actually understood him for the first time. And that was a brilliant revelation for me. Plus super bad ass moments at the start of the book, the Iron Lord teleporting in on bended knee.....poised for battle......anihillating all around him, sweep after sweep. But your right Sir. It was all the Fulgrim shenanigans that spoils that book. It took a couple of rereads to 'get it' but that's the truth of it. .......also.....Sharrowkyn Perturabo is one of the most interesting Primarchs to my mind. And I hope that once BL has had its fun with Guilliman in the new Primarch series, we get some exposition of the master of the IVth too. Saa....... ......or something like that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 When he first took control of the Legion, he allowed the Astartes to vote who would continue on in the Legion... ... you know, by forcing them to kill each other. As far as I am aware it was chosen at random, I believe it was mentioned in AE too? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 When he first took control of the Legion, he allowed the Astartes to vote who would continue on in the Legion... ... you know, by forcing them to kill each other. As far as I am aware it was chosen at random, I believe it was mentioned in AE too? Not unless they've released a revised copy since FW Extinction came out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 When he first took control of the Legion, he allowed the Astartes to vote who would continue on in the Legion... ... you know, by forcing them to kill each other. As far as I am aware it was chosen at random, I believe it was mentioned in AE too? Not unless they've released a revised copy since FW Extinction came out. Pretty sure Berossus mentions surviving the decimation, I might be imagining it though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 When he first took control of the Legion, he allowed the Astartes to vote who would continue on in the Legion... ... you know, by forcing them to kill each other. As far as I am aware it was chosen at random, I believe it was mentioned in AE too? Well they voted with their weapons. And I'm sure hands once the weapons were empty or broken. It was sarcasm, Perturabo is an artistic tyrant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 When he first took control of the Legion, he allowed the Astartes to vote who would continue on in the Legion... ... you know, by forcing them to kill each other. As far as I am aware it was chosen at random, I believe it was mentioned in AE too? Not unless they've released a revised copy since FW Extinction came out. Pretty sure Berossus mentions surviving the decimation, I might be imagining it though. No, Berossus was recalling how he survived Perturabo beating him to a bloody pulp at the end of Crimson Fist. The same beating which coincidentally put him in a dreadnought sarcophagus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 When he first took control of the Legion, he allowed the Astartes to vote who would continue on in the Legion... ... you know, by forcing them to kill each other. As far as I am aware it was chosen at random, I believe it was mentioned in AE too? Not unless they've released a revised copy since FW Extinction came out. Pretty sure Berossus mentions surviving the decimation, I might be imagining it though. No, Berossus was recalling how he survived Perturabo beating him to a bloody pulp at the end of Crimson Fist. The same beating which coincidentally put him in a dreadnought sarcophagus. He is in more than just the opening segment of the book, I will have a look when I get back from the Gym to see if I can find it. Again, I am sure it is in there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 I have just skimmed through Siegemaster, one of the Iron Warriors shorts, I have not got round to AE yet but it is mentioned that: "He was impatient for the kill. That was not something we were known for, neither then nor since – we were the methodical ones, the stoic breakers of lesser wills. We had stood quiet like cattle while our Father had ordered the Decimation, bound by our orders, bound by our stolid souls." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Okay, but isn't Siegemaster a 40K short? Berossus isn't even in that is he? Wasn't it Bekolus and Kurr? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Hmm well the Iron warriors were arrogant and vainglory prior to Perturabo I think they needed the wake up call that they were nothing special just another tool for war Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Perturabo is the douchiest primarch of the bunch. His fall is rather unconvincing IMO From idealistic Da Vinci-esque Renaissance man to Joseph Stalin/Kim Jong Il because...daddy makes him do garrison work Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Perturabo is the douchiest primarch of the bunch. His fall is rather unconvincing IMO From idealistic Da Vinci-esque Renaissance man to Joseph Stalin/Kim Jong Il because...daddy makes him do garrison work Or.... Because Horus offered him a pardon for Olympia. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I think there is a more simple explanation. Look at everything that happened with Fulgrim. And yet Perturabo still hangs with the crowd. Ultimately, I think Perturabo is a Primarch with principles. And what I mean by that, is when he sticks his mind to something, his loyalty to a cause, he stands by it until the very end, come hell or high water. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I think there is a more simple explanation. Look at everything that happened with Fulgrim. And yet Perturabo still hangs with the crowd. Ultimately, I think Perturabo is a Primarch with principles. And what I mean by that, is when he sticks his mind to something, his loyalty to a cause, he stands by it until the very end, come hell or high water. Until Molech, the rebellion was a purely political endeavor. Horus inner circle was privy to the warp as were the WB, but everyone bar Fulgrim had the intention of overthrowing an unjust regime. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331508 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Once you commit one act of sin your hands are stained for life, at least he was a primarch of his word and he has my respect for that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I think there is a more simple explanation. Look at everything that happened with Fulgrim. And yet Perturabo still hangs with the crowd. Ultimately, I think Perturabo is a Primarch with principles. And what I mean by that, is when he sticks his mind to something, his loyalty to a cause, he stands by it until the very end, come hell or high water.Until Molech, the rebellion was a purely political endeavor. Horus inner circle was privy to the warp as were the WB, but everyone bar Fulgrim had the intention of overthrowing an unjust regime.Yes, but Molech was three years after Angel Exterminatus and Fulgrim's attempt on Perturabo. By the time the Heresy went from a revolution to a proxy armageddon, it was too late for Perturabo. He had made his choice and now it was time to pay the piper. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Angel Exterminatus was an absolute crime against Perturabo. I will give credit to Mr. McNeil for his grand attempt to humanize the mind the most mentally inhuman primarchs, but Occam's Razor applies here, as it always does in the mindset of the Iron Lord. Simplicity is the key, expedience the goal. His is a mind entirely composed of mathematical equations, looking at the world around him in angles and percentages, statistics and numbers. Emotion is unwelcome, an unfactorable variable, but it's always there, the ghost that haunts his finely tuned thoughts. He buried his dreams and his heart on Olympia's ridges, and willingly cut all ties and dived into Hell, because his Father asked him to. He murdered millions, because his father asked him to. He broke empires, shattered armies, and his Legion bore the most grievous wounds and losses, because his father asked him to. And he ignored the implications of it all, because his Father asked him to. Do you honestly believe none of this ground into his long lost humanity, the empty core of his being that he cut out, because his Father asked him to? He is War-Broken. We're talking about God-Level traumatic mental disorder here. Perturabo can't control his emotions at times. He stares out at nothingness, and speaks to his past. One moment, he's unreachable, and the next he's ripping your head off because you brought him bad news. He can become utterly lost in fine details, both in crafting weaponry, and tearing down citadels. It calms him, returns his mind back the the emotionless numbers that represent hundreds of thousands of his sons dying. The further detached he became from reality, the further he tried to hide from the horror he was crafting, the worse his emotions got. And Perturabo still buried that :cuss . He moved forward. He got the damn job done, and the next, and the next, with precise equations and algorithms. Olympia was the line crossed. His mind broke, his heart broke, and he became the Monster he ran from his whole life. Because his Father asked him to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Perturabo is the douchiest primarch of the bunch. His fall is rather unconvincing IMO I agree in principal. For me he's one of the least consistently represented Primarchs. Reading some of the fluff makes me imagine the rank and file probably disliked him just as much as the orders their legion had to follow. Considering how many remained loyal there might be some truth to it. I also have a hard time with their fall. Having your home planet revolt after committing mass galactic genocide seems like a hurricane in a tea pot. Hyaenidae does a much better job of setting it up than the fluff. I find the idea that he was gifted a possessed hammer (not sure if it has been retconned) more... believable? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I think there is a more simple explanation. Look at everything that happened with Fulgrim. And yet Perturabo still hangs with the crowd. Ultimately, I think Perturabo is a Primarch with principles. And what I mean by that, is when he sticks his mind to something, his loyalty to a cause, he stands by it until the very end, come hell or high water. The one exception to this being his previous loyalty to the Emperor? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 After his mess in olimpya, he thought he would be punished by the Emperor. Lets say that old empy already had eliminated 2 of the primarchs. So ya know. His big bro forgives him, there ya go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calas Typhon Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I think there is a more simple explanation. Look at everything that happened with Fulgrim. And yet Perturabo still hangs with the crowd. Ultimately, I think Perturabo is a Primarch with principles. And what I mean by that, is when he sticks his mind to something, his loyalty to a cause, he stands by it until the very end, come hell or high water. The one exception to this being his previous loyalty to the Emperor? He did, stick to his Loyalty to hell, and in the end he reached hell. Hell being the place his Legion was in when it was being ground down by one too many sieges and garrisons. He was extremely Loyal to the Emperor, who else would do any command blindly without thinking or acting differently, and in doing so, the Legion was put in the place it was in (with a little help from Horus & co). He was and stood loyal to that cause to the end. I have a feeling with Perturabo mentioning after AE that the only trust he puts in will be for Horus will have dramatic consequenses. Especially if he finds out that the Word Bearers did the dodgy on Olympia and his Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilks Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Could someone explain a little more on the decimation of the legion that Perturabo carried out. I have not read the HH books but have heard it was was because they were not the best performing legion? What kind of numbers were killed? was it just random selection? and how were they executed? Just curious because I think this piece of fluff is what totally put me off the Iron warriors, because I want my legion to have a primarch who inspires, rather then clears house when he steps up as new management for no real reason. I read Angel exterminatus too and I did like the way Perturabo was portrayed in that, but there were some questionable practises, such as having them fight real simulations against each other with live ammo to the death. For someone who is a demigod tactical genius, he was not great at managing his own resources. I'm surprised he had any legion left to fight in the heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320186-perturabos-democratic-inclinations/#findComment-4331817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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