Help: UM Legion composition

[Dosjetka]

So according to the most recently released Forge World Horus Heresy book, we know that the Ultramarine Legion consists of:

• 25 Chapters of 10 Companies each;
• One Company was made up of "approximately one thousand warriors" (HH:Tempest, p.80);
• This means each Chapter had around 25'000 bodies and the whole Legion was made up of about 250'000 Astartes.

My question is concerns the internal organisation of Companies; a thousand warriors is a huge number and even an Astartes officer could not effectively command such a large amount of warriors on his own. Does this mean that there are sub-divisions within a Heresy-era Company? We know that the Ultramarines had "Senior Captains" as well as "Line Captains" so I'm wondering if the Senior Captains were the ones commanding the 1'000-man Companies while the Line Captains commanded smaller formations (100 Astartes or less)? Do we have any other sources of information regarding either the composition of the Companies and/or the role of Senior/Line Captains (I stopped reading the Black Library series after book 8 and so have not read the more recent Ultramarine-focused stories)? If you have any non-official suggestions/"fan theories", I'm all ears as well!

[mactire]

For UM that would make the most sense, as it would also fit in nicely with the Codex Astartes in the future, ie. 1000 marines with 10 companies of 100. 

[markham82]

Disclaimer : This is the idea that has formed in my mind.

 

I think there are line companies that were 1000 man plus and specialist companies (think scout/bike/zone mortalis) which had less than a thousand men. I'm pretty sure I've read of companies of less than a hundred men, I think they were Word bearers.

[Dosjetka]

mactire: Yeah, it would wouldn't it? Any idea on what they're called?

 

markham: Other Legions have smaller companies, but HH:Tempest specifically states that Ultramarine companies are all around the 1'000 mark and them not having specialist companies. Which is why I'm wondering how the further divide these huge formations into smaller, more manageable ones.

[Tranc]

I think Steloc Aethon of the 19th company (Betrayal at Calth board game) is referred to as a Praetor-Captain, which seems like it would correspond to Senior Captain. Since a company is already taken to mean 1000 Ultramarines, I would call 100 a century.

 

I've been looking at the HH book 5 Ultramarines insignias and lament at how poorly/inconsistently they were designed. Big missed opportunity IMO. I have to do a thread on it sometime, but my 1.5 year old has been keeping me busy.

[Prot]

I think Steloc Aethon of the 19th company (Betrayal at Calth board game) is referred to as a Praetor-Captain, which seems like it would correspond to Senior Captain. Since a company is already taken to mean 1000 Ultramarines, I would call 100 a century.

 

 

 

^ This is true, and hints and a hierarchy of Captains.

 

But seeing that story in action it is apparent that due to the training and cohesion of the force, these Captains transition well to other companies.

[Legatus]

WH40K lore: Within the Ultramarines Legion, a 'Chapter' was a formation of 1,000 men, divided into 10 companies of 100 men. This would later become the model for the reorganised smaller Space Marine forces after the Scouring. The Legion also possessed significant production facilities.

 

HH lore: The Ultramarines Legion was a humongous horde, using large and ponderous troop formations and cheap mass produced equipment. A 'Chapter' was a formation of 10,000 men, divided into 'companies' of 1,000 men. Tempest mentions no ranks between 'Captain' and 'Sergeant' in the helmet pattern listing on page 85. Though page 84 shows shoulder patterns for "senior Captains" and "line Captains", the text about Legion organisation on page 81 only mentions "Companies of 1,000, led by a Captain".

[Slothysaur]

I like the inconsistency. Maybe the info just got mixed up in a 10.000 year long game of galactic telephone. Oops I meant record keeping :P

[Doctor Perils]

I think a more expanded hierarchy is great (the Legions are after all immense), but just having several kinds of captain is just sooo confusing, and hints not at a lack of imagination, as it would after all easily be possible to copy/paste real life terms like Lieutenant, Colonel and other Dux Bellorum (you have to insert some pig latin in there somewhere); but at a confusion within the developpers of the setting themselves :(

[shandwen]

In a couple of the eqrly HH books we get a glimpse at SoH organization. We see how they had two "levels" of captains (just like the Ultras are described as) and that a captain has a command group with what would be a primarius medicae and a couple other chosen men (perhaps a command squad perhaps junior captains). It also seems that they had captains over each section of the companies, even though the books are never super clear about that.

[Marshal Rohr]

The way Horus Heresy organization works was lightly explained on the First Expedition. The name of the unit is no indication of the rank of its commander. Praetors are field grade officers in command of larger operational level deployments that can range between a battalion to chapter sized combined arms formations. Centurions range from senior company grade officers to staff officers to junior officers, depending on the DIY attachment the player makes to the model. For instance, Ventanus is a 'captain' but is clearly a field grade officer, and has multiple sub-commander under his command who hold the rank of captain (per KNF) and perform the duties of company grade and staff officers. In the Ultramarines this means that a company captain (field grade) will have his company divided in an unspecified number of tactical level units led by captains (company grade) grouped into maneuver level units of 1000. The nomenclature of whether these smaller groups are called centuries is unspecified as is the name of the rank of their commander. The title captain and centurion is interchangeable for company grade commanders.

 

The reasons this is so confusing are because FW didn't run into the 'codex' problem by creating an arbitrary TOE, leaving it up to the players to decide and because Rites of War are tied to the praetor, which no one would willingly not take in larger games, and the inclusion of consuls without specifying their role in legion hierarchy well enough. For instance, Dreygur has the rules of a consul but is a field grade officer, which players don't like because it keeps them from taking a rite of war.

 

A simple solution is to use the baseline centurion as junior officers, consuls as staff or company grades, and the praetor as your maneuver commander. For the Ultramarines, this would look something like a Praetor for the RoW, a Champion as leader of a Century within the 1000 man company, and a Centurion as a lieutenant.