How Long Should the Insurrection Last?

[simison]

Makes sense. They'd view the Webway as their last possible hope to escape danger and would want to deprive Humanity of it. This could also be the reason why the Imperial Webway deteriorates during the Insurrection, not because of Loyalist or Traitor, but Eldar strike missions. 

[Nomus Sardauk]

I don't know about the Eldar being almost extinct, yes the Crusade has gone on much longer than canon but if I recall correctly that was in part due to our GC's much slower pace of expansion due to problems with Legion growth speed. Thus given the more relaxed pace of the Imperium's expansion I could easily see the majority of Craftworlds outrunning the Expeditionary Fleets, sure some will be caught, or choose to stand their ground, but the majority could flee to the far reaches of the galaxy or places the Imperium cannot and/or will not go, especially given that the Craftworlds seem to have a far less hostile realationship with their dark brethren in Commoragh due to their mutual interest in survival (thanks Morro). Edited March 21, 2016 by SanguiniusReborn

[simison]

I don't know about the Eldar being almost extinct, yes the Crusade has gone on much longer than canon but if I recall correctly that was in part due to our GC's much slower pace of expansion due to problems with Legion growth speed. Thus given the more relaxed pace of the Imperium's expansion I could easily see the majority of Craftworlds outrunning the Expeditionary Fleets, sure some will be caught, or choose to stand their ground, but the majority could flee to the far reaches of the galaxy or places the Imperium cannot and/or will not go, especially given that the Craftworlds seem to have a far less hostile realationship with their dark brethren in Commoragh due to their mutual interest in survival (thanks Morro).

 

We might be overplaying the extinction aspect, true enough. The reason I picked Biel-Tan as the only craftworld that might be destroyed is because they might choose to stand and fight against the Imperium instead of falling back. The others, I agree that they'll remain mostly safe throughout the Insurrection. The same can't be said of the Eldar worlds. Either they're abandoned or conquered by the Imperium, except for the ones beyond the borders on the Day of Revelation.

[Sigismund229]

It could just be that the Imperium under estimates how many Eldar are left and so believes them to be nearly extinct but they're actually still pretty numerous(by their own post Fall standards)

 

Also, Sanguinius, the reason for our GC lasting lomger was because Icarion wouldn't act as quickly as Horus, instead biding his time until he thought the odds were most in his favour and exploiting Alex and the Emperor's absence to build up support

Edited March 21, 2016 by Sigismund229

[MikhalLeNoir]

i would say the pace was so slow because most of the primarchs got addicted to nerith.

 

I think most of thr eldar craft worlds would be able to flee into the galactic void or hide themselves out of the grasp of the imperium.

[Kelborn]

Furthermore that would leave us more future possibilities than just Orks.

More aspects, characters, diverserty.

 

Orks can be diversere as well but summerized it's all about Waaaagh!!!

[Nomus Sardauk]

Furthermore that would leave us more future possibilities than just Orks.

More aspects, characters, diverserty.

 

Orks can be diversere as well but summerized it's all about Waaaagh!!!

The Blood Axes might be the dominant Klan in this timeline, given how successful Humanity has been in driving the Orkz back. Orkz see a strong enemy, one potentially stronger than them? They try to emulate it, hence the Blood Axes' adoption of U'mie things like "taktikz," "kamoflage" & "dizcipline."

 

 

Hmm, looted Fellblade... *low, maniacal chuckling*

[Sigismund229]

i would say the pace was so slow because most of the primarchs got addicted to nerith.

Nerith=My greatest contribution to the BotL verse so far. Also, given the haluconogenic effects of nerith that would certainly explain Alex, Icarion and Travier receiving visions...

[bluntblade]

Although the Lions hailing from old Hebride insist that a brew called gynnaess is far superior...

[Kelborn]

Wow guys...you leave me no choice.

 

But I know that the absolute best brews come from a distant planet called Germyna.

Amongst their various types of brews and ales, you'll only find the most delicious ones like Stauda! or Weiznbia!

 

So please don't come up with some outback drinks.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Kelborn

[Nomus Sardauk]

Wow guys...you leave me no choice.

 

But I know that the absolute best brews come from a distant planet called Germyna.

Amongst their various types of brews and ales, you'll only find the most delicious ones like Stauda! or Weiznbia!

 

So please don't come up with some outback drinks.

 

Ha! You, my friend, have obviously never tried a Pangalactic Gargleblaster.  

[bluntblade]

Pour that xenos concoction down the sink! Such alien handiwork should not be compared to the perfection of human brewery.

 

(Hangs up Commissar's hat) if the Webway is to remain a viable route to Terra, how is the daemonic incursion on Terra going to play out?

Edited March 24, 2016 by bluntblade

[simison]

Contained is the key word. The Webway breach will be close to Terra itself, but just deep in that it can be isolated from the rest of the network before the daemons can get to the other branches. Obviously, the path between the breach and the Golden Throne is chock full of daemons, so there's no clearing it until the end of the war. 

 

When Madrigal is put to siege, Icarion either repairs the line to Terra or has Chaos open it for him when he makes his escape, giving him his direct shot at the Emperor.

[MikhalLeNoir]

One question i have: in caninverse magnus was destined to sit on the golden throne. Here in canonverse we have magnus(had), icarion and alexandros. So what hinders the emperor to place alex on the golden throne and lead the resistance against icarion himself? At the last battle he steps down and i guess malcador takes a seat as in the canonverse?

[simison]

Simple, he knows that, while capable, Alexandros wouldn't be able to last indefinitely against the daemonic hordes. The only reason he gives up the Throne to Malcador was that he knew the battle with Horus wouldn't last more than a couple of hours. Here, with Icarion and his forces far away from Terra, we're talking about holding the Golden Throne for months, at minimum. Alex might be able to, but that's a huge gamble to take.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Okay. That makes sense.

[simison]

Okay. That makes sense.

 

Ironically, you unintentionally bring up a different issue. When Icarion launches his assault on the Throne Room, why isn't the Warmaster on the Throne and the Emperor moving to duel the Stormlord? 

[MikhalLeNoir]

Lol. Good question. Maybe when the wards are broken. The emperor was cut off from reality trapped in the throne room, unreachable for everyone? Only when icarion uses the webway, the passage is repaired as he wants the emperor. Alex uses another entry to get access to the webway and tries to fend of icarion? When alex is dead, icarion together with the chaos gods breaka into the throne room. In doing so, the room is back in the physical realm and the last defense can enter too? So malcador is there and the emperor can step down and meet Icarion head on?

[simison]

Okay, the idea is now stuck in my head. We've been simply assuming we were going to mirror the canon-verse's final confrontation. Sanguinius/Alexandros duels Horus/Icarion, makes a chink, then dies. Emperor steps in, takes a beat, but defeats the Arch-Traitor. 

 

And, we can easily go that route by using divination to keep fate going this way. Malcador can be brought in to sit on the Golden Throne after Alex is struck down for the Emperor to do battle.

 

But, what if Icarion does kill the Emperor? What if it's the Warmaster that deals the final blow to the Stormlord after the Emperor falls? Then, it is Alexandros who must be interred into the Golden Throne to keep the Astronomican running. Yet, it is weaker, which means Sig's beacons go from bonus amplifiers to absolutely necessary tools to maintain safe Warp travel. As the millenniums roll on, the beacons and their worlds become key battlegrounds between the Imperium and their enemies, and say each is defended by one of the loyalist Primarchs. Each one that is snuffed out means an entire portion of the galaxy is denied to the Imperium. So, by 40k, the Imperium is a small, weak shadow of itself struggling to hold back its enemies as the loyalist Primarchs disappear/die. The Orks are able to raise a dozen new empires, the Necrons face less resistance as they awaken and reassert their dominance. The Tau aren't in danger of being crushed and are exploding as a new power in their corner of the galaxy. Perhaps the Imperium maintains a few far-flung outposts because they're still connected by intact pieces by the Imperial Webway. 

 

Even if we decide to stick closer to canon, I might write about this alternate continuity down the road. So much fascinating potential.

[Sigismund229]

Personally I'd be tempted to stick closer to canon on this one. The Imperium is already going to have enough problems, such as several rebel empires carving out chunks of formerly Imperial territory for themselves, without adding in a weaker astronomicon(particularly seeing as the astronomicon doesn't seem to do reducing in strength. You're either powerful enough to direct it or it kills you). 

 

If we want to combine both ideas, the Emperor could fight Icarion and as per canon be too sentimental to deal the decisive blow so he gets his ass handed to him. Then Alexandros shows up on the scene to find a mortally wounded Emperor and Icarion about to kill him. Heedless of the danger, he charges in and stops Icarion from killing the Emperor but he's hopelessly outmatched and he can't hold out for very long. Icarion smashes him aside, fatally wounding him. Then, seeing what a monster Icarion has become, the Emps and Alex pool their pyschic power and drive a lance of psychic energy through Icarion, shattering his soul. Then Gwal or Hec shows up to find they were too late after which they put the Emperor on the Golden Throne. Cue in the darkness of the far future etc. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Sigismund229

[simison]

Personally I'd be tempted to stick closer to canon on this one. The Imperium is already going to have enough problems, such as several rebel empires carving out chunks of formerly Imperial territory for themselves, without adding in a weaker astronomicon(particularly seeing as the astronomicon doesn't seem to do reducing in strength. You're either powerful enough to direct it or it kills you). 

 

If we want to combine both ideas...

 

Fair points. I'm not sure we need to combine the final fight ideas because I do like how our original version plays out.

[MikhalLeNoir]

I think Gwal needs Hec to carry him. After the battle with Travier he lost a heart and mich of his eyesight and helping hec in the duel with Raktra will take its toll too. But please promise to not put Gwal on the Throne Sig^^

 

Letting the Emp fight at first is a welcome change to the canon but it could take away some momentum. Not easy to write i guess.

[simison]

What on terra would happen if you put a Pariah on the Golden Throne?

[Sigismund229]

I don't think I want to know...

 

And as to Hec having to carry Gwal, is Hec going to be the only loyal primarch in reasonably good shape after Terra(i.e not dead or dying)?

Edited March 24, 2016 by Sigismund229

[MikhalLeNoir]

I guess the forces of order would win. But nothing is left.

 

When I brainstormed about the wardens, thst idea came to my mind. Gwal was there still the peacekeeper but he brought everyone to the.loght and of they refuse he would habe killed them to grant them the chance of reaching the light.from jis point of view before the purge, humanity and all sentient beeings was the source for chaos and corruptiom amd to wipe out corruption all beeings must be destroyed to grant the galaxy eternal peace. So his plan was to sat himself on the golden throne and use his pariahness to full extent. Well those were darker days, before there was bling^^

 

 

Well actually Hec is carried too by gwal. The support themselves. Think that we are going against a daemon primarch and gwals pariah eyes are for the time beeing useless. Togheter they are able to beat him but reaaaaaaally close. I mean really close. After a few weeks Gwal is back to normal but he can't forgive himself. If he had taken action earlier(wasn't so weak ro succumb to the drugs) had to know that travier is evil) maybe Alex was still alive and tge mperor not in that shape...so he vanished.

 

 

"The Imperium was saved...but not for me..." The last known words of Gwalchavad, Primarch of the Wardens of Light, before he vanished into the webway

 

And before that it is written, thst he said: Hec, I will be on a long journey, gimme some of that nerith stuff"

Edited March 24, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir