Boldthreat Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Hey guys. The following are my rough ideas for a Space Marine Chapter. I will be honest... I am not looking to re-invent the wheel here so I hope they do not come across as unimaginative. This Chapter is heavily influenced by two chapters that I love... the Marines Errant and the Crimson Fists and their parent legion. I loved Forgeworld's depiction of the Marines Errant and the description of the Chapters of the Sentinel Founding; and how they were created to be on constant crusade. I also thought it would be interesting to think about a Crimson Fist successor that is so invested in this crusader mentality that they actually believe it would be an ill-omen to slow down or rest... even believing what happened to the Crimson Fists and Executioners to reinforce this belief. I like that this mentality could cause contention with their Primogenitor Chapter, especially post Rynn's World. Chapter Name: Exemplars of Dorn Successors of: Crimson Fists Primarch: Rogal Dorn Founding: 23rd Founding Homeworld: Fleet-Based Chapter Defining Notes: · Crimson Fists were given the honor of a named founding for their efforts in the Crusade of Righteous Liberation in the previous millennium. · Since its inception, the Exemplars of Dorn have dutifully followed its mandate in continually crusading across the Imperium and beyond. The Chapter recruits while on campaign, refusing to be bogged down by any homeworld or sector. The Chapter Cult is heavily influenced by their crusading mandate… to the point that the Chapter believes it would invite ill-fortune if it ever settled down and strayed from this core belief, no matter the cost. The Chapter believes what happened to its primogenitor chapter to be direct evidence of this belief, which has caused tense exchanges between the two Chapters, and other sons of Dorn who they believe have strayed from the crusader path. · The Chapter has received many commendations for its skill in ship to ship actions and zone mortalis missions, indeed the Chapter’s greatest battles have been in the void. · The Chapter is unorthodox in its organization. Each Company is expected to operate independently and is configured as such. It is extremely rare when Companies work in the same theatre… and only in the greatest of crusades is the entire Chapter deployed as a whole. The Chapter Headquarters travels between the companies as needed… or spear-heading multi-company crusades. Because of this nature, each company is configured as a Battle Company with a larger number of specialists than standard. · The Chapter has a deficiency in heavy vehicles, specifically ground based patterns. It is a slow process for the Chapter to replace these losses. Primary planetary operations rely heavily on space borne assets. The Chapter has a reputation of not backing down or retreating. This has won much glory and honor, but at a terrible cost. The Chapter has been thought extinct on more than one occasion in its past, only to be rebuilt by a wayward Company. The Chapter believes this survivability is directly attributed to the will of the Emperor and their dedication to the example set by Rogal Dorn. http://i.imgur.com/swLmldw.png So tell me what you like... what you don't and anything in between. I do want to get a small army of these guys, if only for Zone Mortalis games with my brother. The plan is to heavily rely on existing models and badges so I do not have to rely too much on my free handling skills heh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320290-exemplars-of-dorn-ia-concept/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysimachus Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Very nice start. I like the scheme, references the CF nicely but well done for not actually giving them red fists (too obvious!). Not 100% sure I like the use of the Templar cross and Executioners axes in addition to the fist badge, feels a little too 'I AM A FISTS SUCCESSOR!' and I don't think you need to do that. Fluff is good, particularly like the idea that they more or less think they're invulnerable as long as they keep their crusade going. I'd emphasise the grimdarkness of that by hinting that it's pretty much blind luck that they're still in existence, and that sooner or later they'll end up biting off more than they can chew and going down permanently. Chapter org makes sense for a Crusade force, although I'd say you either need to make the central command more of a focus (e.g. a Chapter Barque/Forgeship where recruiting and geneseed implantation happens, weapons etc are built/maintained, and have the Companies regularly come back to it), or lose it entirely and have the Co.s Captains entirely self-sufficient (which is what would probably happen anyway without anything to keep bringing them together?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320290-exemplars-of-dorn-ia-concept/#findComment-4334557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Founding: 23rd Founding Interesting that you choose to have them as a part of the Sentinel Founding. What particular part of the galaxy do you see this Chapter mostly operating in? The northern fringe, perhaps? The Chapter Cult is heavily influenced by their crusading mandate… to the point that the Chapter believes it would invite ill-fortune if it ever settled down and strayed from this core belief, no matter the cost. The Chapter believes what happened to its primogenitor chapter to be direct evidence of this belief, which has caused tense exchanges between the two Chapters, and other sons of Dorn who they believe have strayed from the crusader path. Sounds like this Chapter is kinda superstitious. There-but-for-the-grace-of-the-God-Emperor-go-I type of thinking. I think this could be a possible avenue to explore. How superstitious are they? Do they use the Imperial Tarot to influence their decision making? Do they think the God-Emperor is divine or merely just a paragon of humanity (and why)? · The Chapter has received many commendations for its skill in ship to ship actions and zone mortalis missions, indeed the Chapter’s greatest battles have been in the void. · The Chapter is unorthodox in its organization. Each Company is expected to operate independently and is configured as such. It is extremely rare when Companies work in the same theatre… and only in the greatest of crusades is the entire Chapter deployed as a whole. The Chapter Headquarters travels between the companies as needed… or spear-heading multi-company crusades. Because of this nature, each company is configured as a Battle Company with a larger number of specialists than standard. · The Chapter has a deficiency in heavy vehicles, specifically ground based patterns. It is a slow process for the Chapter to replace these losses. Primary planetary operations rely heavily on space borne assets. The Chapter has a reputation of not backing down or retreating. This has won much glory and honor, but at a terrible cost. The Chapter has been thought extinct on more than one occasion in its past, only to be rebuilt by a wayward Company. The Chapter believes this survivability is directly attributed to the will of the Emperor and their dedication to the example set by Rogal Dorn. This particular set of points makes me think that the Chapter, these Exemplars of Dorn, don't have much in the way of capital class vessels. Seeing as they are relatively recent (it's a couple of thousand years ago, but still) I don't think they'd have much in the way of relics or rare gear either. Which may mean that they are used to using basic astartes gear rather than a lot of plasma or graviton weaponry. Things like flamers, bolt weaponry and missile launchers, I would suppose. I'd also think they'd, almost to a man, be armoured in Mk7 gear. http://i.imgur.com/swLmldw.png Cool colour scheme. Maybe the blatant Crimson Fists symbol could be tweaked/replaced with something more original but on the whole, I like what I see. I agree with LySiMachus that the Executioners and Black Templars symbols are a little out of place but I like the intention. To wit, the placement and use of symbols (either as a personal thing or otherwise). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320290-exemplars-of-dorn-ia-concept/#findComment-4334594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boldthreat Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 Thanks guys. I think you guys made some excellent points. I actually agree with you guys on the IF Legion markings... it is too much on the nose. In my mind I was wanting to carry over the Templar Cross being a sign of a Crusade Veteran and the twin axes being a honor marking for Zone Mortalis missions. I love how they look but if the Fists (Imperial and Crimson) have moved away from using them in the 41st Millennium then these guys would probably use traditional markings too. And yes, my intention is for these guys to be a superstitious chapter. While I am unsure if I want to hint home their belief in the divinity of the Emperor (which I am still mulling over)... I do want to emphasis an ancestor worship bordering on divinity. These guys believe to stray from the crusader mandate would anger the Emperor... and especially Rogal Dorn. They believe it would curse themselves to let up... or delay in the mission they were created for in the Sentinel Founding (which was ordained by the Emperor himself in their eyes). Not even the fear of death would make this Chapter sway from this. Its why they have been on the brink of destruction so many times. They believe going to their certain deaths is just as much apart of the example set by Rogal Dorn as his other qualities. Its this core belief that causes them to have contention with their parent chapter. In their mind the Crimson Fists did abandon the crusader path with their dominion of the Loki sector. In their mind... Waaagh!, Snagrod and the destruction of the Crimson Fists fortress monastery was as much the fault of the Crimson Fists as it was alien machinations. They would also believe the Executioners would not have been involved in the Badab War if it were not due to a blood oath to the Astral Claws for helping defend their homeworld. Again, something this chapter believes would not have happened if the Executioners were still crusading across the galaxy as Dorn intended (this chapters belief). Imagine the chapter master of the Exemplars of Dorn and Pedro Kantor meeting post Rynn's World. This Chapter Master would be begging Pedro to abandon the Loki sector and go back on crusade like they used to, to save his Chapter from future curses.. To trust in the Emperor to see the Crimson Fists through this... like he has the Exemplars. Pedro Kantor would view this as superstitious, foolishly prideful, and dangerous to the future of his chapter. I do not want my chapter to be in the right. Pedro Kantor is clearly doing the right thing. But this is 40k lol... I want my guys to be superstitiously ignorant. They absolutely, religiously believe in going hard or dying out... they go where the Emperor wilt. Think Black Templar's but replace the arrogance with superstitious fanaticism. And yes... I do want to emphasize a chapter that is low on relics and heavy equipment. Replacing Terminator suits and Land Raiders is very difficult. This Chapter is predominately a Infantry Force... with just enough space born assets to take an enemy vessel or launch a drop pod/thunderhawk assault. The Chapter is so void focused that they lack the equipment and experience for major planetary engagements. The Chapter would also prefer Storm Ravens, Thunderhawks, Drop Pods over Rhinos or other land based assets... for the ease and speed of getting in... getting out... and moving on to the next crusade. I want them to feel like a Chapter that is always in a rush... and paying for it. Chapter Master and personal Honor Guard: http://i.imgur.com/KRfLMj5.png 2nd Company Sternguard Veterans http://i.imgur.com/z5NAU5O.png 3rd Company Tactical Squad http://i.imgur.com/CnvtV29.png Better? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320290-exemplars-of-dorn-ia-concept/#findComment-4334810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 In regard to the ancestor worship, maybe their ritual system honours particularly great Imperial Fists back when they were a Legion: Such as Sigismund, Alexis Polux and Demetrius Katafalque (each of whom went on to command Chapters of their own after the Heresy). Above them would be Dorn and above him would be the Emperor. Maybe the Emperor would be the 'Forefather' (or whichever title you deem fit), Dorn would be Ancestor Primus, Sigismund and his peers would be Secundus and everyone else would be Tertius. I don't know. I'm just spitballing really. Perhaps particularly great heroes of the Chapter would be honoured to be counted amongst the ancients in the Secundus tier, vaunted enough to have their names echo down through history as equals. And, maybe, marines could meditate at the shrines/plinths/statues of these greats to garner insight into how they should act in the future - certain crusaders (like Sigismund for example) being particularly popular. Again, just spitballing. Of course, in the IA proper, such blatant name dropping is probably best left out and instead alluded to (if you do decide to use this idea). As things stand, they're looking good. The pictures seem on point (although the Crimson Fists emblem still seems somewhat incongruous) and the concepts you have seem well thought out so far. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320290-exemplars-of-dorn-ia-concept/#findComment-4334828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boldthreat Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 In regard to the ancestor worship, maybe their ritual system honours particularly great Imperial Fists back when they were a Legion: Such as Sigismund, Alexis Polux and Demetrius Katafalque (each of whom went on to command Chapters of their own after the Heresy). Above them would be Dorn and above him would be the Emperor. Maybe the Emperor would be the 'Forefather' (or whichever title you deem fit), Dorn would be Ancestor Primus, Sigismund and his peers would be Secundus and everyone else would be Tertius. I don't know. I'm just spitballing really. Perhaps particularly great heroes of the Chapter would be honoured to be counted amongst the ancients in the Secundus tier, vaunted enough to have their names echo down through history as equals. And, maybe, marines could meditate at the shrines/plinths/statues of these greats to garner insight into how they should act in the future - certain crusaders (like Sigismund for example) being particularly popular. Again, just spitballing. Of course, in the IA proper, such blatant name dropping is probably best left out and instead alluded to (if you do decide to use this idea). As things stand, they're looking good. The pictures seem on point (although the Crimson Fists emblem still seems somewhat incongruous) and the concepts you have seem well thought out so far. That is a really good idea. I will definitively be taking that advice. Thank you. I will be trying to incorporate all of this into a proper IA. I know the Crimson Fist emblem is a blatant rip-off... I must admit that its predominately down to the fact that I already have quite a bit of Imperial Fist shoulder-pads and I was planning to use them for a Zone Mortalis Army made up of these guys. The Chapter Generator that I am using has a Crimson Fist background with white or black. I changed the black to blue to match the squad marking colors... and I just love how it looks. It does come off as lazy I know. If I were to do something different... would a Kantor Blue fist holding Crimson thunderbolt be a close enough replacement? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320290-exemplars-of-dorn-ia-concept/#findComment-4334854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysimachus Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I kinda like the badge but I can definitely see what Olis is saying that it's just too close atm. There is some fluff (from a poster I think) that shows a black Land Raider with IF badges that is described as 'Night World scheme'. I guess because the badge is identical, it could look like your colours are some kind of CF 'ice world camo scheme'? The fist with lightning bolt sounds pretty cool though, and would certainly fit with their attitude of striking and moving on. I might be tempted to keep the fist red though as a tie in to their predecessor, so maybe go for a blue lightning bolt? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320290-exemplars-of-dorn-ia-concept/#findComment-4334977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 How about... blue fist, blue circle, white background (to match the rest of the armour) and gold/yellow lightning bolt? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320290-exemplars-of-dorn-ia-concept/#findComment-4335346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boldthreat Posted March 16, 2016 Author Share Posted March 16, 2016 That sounds like a good suggestion too. Worse comes to worse... I just do a blue fist and roundel on a white background. I have also thought about doing crossed, crimson Axes (ala Crimson Guard and Celestial Guard... who have been lumped in the past as CF successors... I do not know if that is true) and a crimson roundel on a dark blue background. I am working on the IA proper now. Work has been getting in the way this week unfortunately. I will be emphasizing more on organization and the importance of the Chapter HQ per LySiMachus recommendations as well. I am waiting on the boarding shields to come in (the older badab war ones... not the legion breachers) to get a tactical squad together. I will try to post pictures of these guys when they are done... as long as they are worth posting anyway :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320290-exemplars-of-dorn-ia-concept/#findComment-4337278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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