The Legion For You: Part Two, Electric Boogaloo!

[Doctor Perils]

So the heresy bug bit me, and I'm experiencing a fair amount of Legion ADD right now. My plan is for a dual use army to represent not only my 30k army but their successors in the 40k environment. What I am wanting to do is a Loyalist warband from one of the traitor legions. I've been working on Loyalist Iron Warriors but I've run out of steam on them for a number of reasons:

1)I find their unique units a tad lackluster in terms of character, by way of context, I find Reaver Attack Squads and Death Shroud for example very characterful

2)Their paint scheme. Don't get me wrong, I like it, but I like it to the point that I can't bring myself to adapt it to my own unique version to represent a later Loyalist chapter as well. That and I'm tired of painting silver, seriously, both my previous chapter (which most of my marines are already painted as anyway, I've got about 4500 points before upgrades) and my Necrons are painted in silver. So yeah.

3)Their culture to me is a bit too bland, for context I've been a longtime space wolves fan ever since I was introduced to them by a friend, they have such deep lore to me (it helps I like the Norse) and the individuality of each warrior really appeals to me

 

So in regards to my fluff, hobby and play style preferences here's a summary

• I like the Mechanicum, ever since reading the book Mechanicum I've fallen in love with the AdMech, it helps that I love technology, this is what partially drew me to the IW (that and The Iron Within from Age of Darkness)
• I need to be drawn to the culture, I like the Romanesqueness of the Legions in general, but I prefer the depth of more barbaric cultures, like the Vikings
• Kitbashing opportunities, this is really important to me and a key reason why I've fallen out over the IW, they're too uniform for my taste, I like pelts and the like on my marines
• My playstyle tends towards balanced, reactive play. I tend to prefer to either A)React to my opponents actions or B)Given them an overwhelming number of threats to mess up their target priority. In terms of individual unit types, I like dreadnoughts, tanks and assaulty units (case in point, Thunder wolf Cav are my favorite unit in 40k)
• The legion needs to have a relatively easily adaptable paint scheme

 

Onto the legions that I'm toying with:

• The Iron Warriors: Their paint scheme and greek/persian background, plus their mechanical expertise, I LOVE the mechanicum and their obsession with Artillery
• The Iron Hands: Similar reasons to the above, I also like their lore quite a bit more than the Iron Warriors, but their loyalists so that kinda defeats the purpose of my project. Though I like their Gorgon Termies
• The Night Lords: Really the only reason why they're here is because of the nostraman chainblade and their ability to teleport termies, also they're assaulty
• The Death Guard: Would modify the dusk raiders scheme, but I like their lore. Truthfully they're here primarily because of the Deathshroud
• World Eaters: Erm well I like their paint scheme, but I'm not a huge fan of not being able to take red butchers ( i like the modelling opportunities this could present)
• The Luna Wolves: They're pre heresy Paint scheme, background and while I get that the justaerin are expensive, I like them and the Reavers
• The Alpha Legion: All I like is their paint and the fact they have unique termies, well the fact that I adore the book Legion helps too

So that about sums up what I'm looking for and the general things i like about each legion that i'm actually interested in. I apologize if its a tad incoherent, ordering my thoughts on this project has been a tad difficult

To me it sounds like you'd do well with the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus, as they are supposed to be some of the most versatile in the fluff, both their paint schemes can be suuuuper sexy (and they aren't silver), you can add wolf pelts and top-knots gallore, and you say you like both the Justaerin and Reavers.

What's more, they have quite a deep culture, both from before Cthonia and after being reunited with Horus, what with the quasi-barbarian hive-gangs and the noble aspects of the Legion.

Since it's also one of the Legions that changes paint scheme the most often, and I believe is pretty large, it can be fairly easy to add something and say "oh, this is Company XX, and in their hive-gang culture from Cthonia they daub their faces in ash" which would allow you to paint the helm grey or something.

[Skalpynock]

I would've attempted to guide you toward the XVI, but Thørn said all there was to say.

[Chaplain Admetus]

I've been getting the itch to try a small 30k force (maybe 2k, tops), something low in model count - ideally BaC and one or two other units. However, I'm having difficulty choosing my legion. I've got a substantial 40k Blood Angels force, so I'd prefer something different. I tend to favour loyalist forces over traitors. Currently I'm feeling drawn towards Imperial Fists (something different from my usual, a solid shooting force with a slight defensive slant); Ultramarines (middle of the road and flexible); and Raven Guard (mobility and stealth). RG get bonus points for being the loyal counterpart to a Night Lords force a friend's working on. Since I'm trying to work to a budget using BaC as a starting point, and I don't really want another "run in and smash face" power armoured force, which of the three would work best? I've been leaning a little more towards IF than the other two, but nothing hugely drags me in that direction.

[Doctor Perils]

If you're aiming on getting the BaC box, I'd say try and paint up the two sides as different legions, as you can still play the box game that way, and you can try out two different painting schemes, see which one you prefer.

 

If you're leaning towards IF, go for it. I've heard that the yellow, even if it can seem daunting at first, has become a lot easier to paint then it has been in the past, and it can look very nice if done right. Plus, Dorn really hates Curze's guts, so the staunch and proud yellow guys can easily be made to face off against the Midnight Clad legion.

However, despite me saying that yellow is easier now, you can always paint half of BaC up in IF and the other in RG? They can be used against one another for the boxed game, but as allies or shattered legion for HH, and you'll get a good taste at which scheme you prefer painting.

[Chaplain Admetus]

Part of what's holding me back from Raven Guard is that I play Angels Sanguine, so I'm -really- tired of painting black and red marines :P I was hoping that tabletop play would be a tie-breaker, I'm mostly interested as to how flexible IF are. From what I've seen they don't seem to be quite as good in a siege or long range firefight situation as Iron Warriors or Death Guard, but pretty much the best out of the loyalist legions and have a few tactical approaches.

[ThatOneMarshal]

Hey guys so I've recently found out that I'm not the biggest fan of the night lords and I found fluff wise I would rather not run with an army of :cusss. So what with brexit lowering the price of the pound I've been trying to figure out a legion.

 

So I've been trying to look for a legion that fluff wise is at least decent to the people of the imperium, not humanitarians like the salamander but not the level of iron hands where they slaughtered all. Gameplay wise I like playing armies that are fast, agressive, and close ranged with some CC ability. Here's the legions I like:

 

Ultramarines: I've been reading Know No Fear and I have been absolutely loving these guys. They act like an actual army which is a big plus. Gameplay wise I'm not as sure as they seem to be more about range, but they are pretty flexible. Also gotta love the blue and gold color with some weathering. Also space Romans. 40k rules are pretty fun. Love Guilliaman both ruleswise and gameplay wise.

 

Imperial Fists: I've come back to these guys an awful lot lol. Color scheme is gravy, looks wise a lot of potential. Can fill a variety of roles thanks to there legion traits being non restrictive. Both characters I absolutely love to there fullest. Dorns is a bit of an :cuss but I remeber there being a post about him that was really good, I gotta go find it. Can perform well in close combat, doesn't seem like a gunline to me. Space Germans! Fluff wise they fought at terra which is a major plus to me. 40k rules are pretty fun.

 

Blood Angels: the boys in red have been my favorite since I first started 40k. They fit all the requirements and got an awesome color scheme. However they lack a lot of flavor due to no primarch or special units. Will have to wait a while for that. 40k rules are garbage at the mont and I already have the models.

 

Luna wolves/sons of Horus: gameplay wise these guys for everything I like. Their close quarter oriented with lots of speed. Horus is pretty cool. Though I like the idea of doing loyalists for them. However that kinda kills a lot of options especially Horus.

Edited June 27, 2016 by ThatOneMarshal

[Slips]

...White Scars?

• Fast and Aggressive
• Shooty and Fighty
• Very different gameplay focus than most currently released legions
• Read Scars and Path of Heaven.
• Also fought at Terra.

[BloodFox]

Luna wolves/sons of Horus: gameplay wise these guys for everything I like. Their close quarter oriented with lots of speed. Horus is pretty cool. Though I like the idea of doing loyalists for them. However that kinda kills a lot of options especially Horus.

 

Not if you base the army around the time period set before the Heresy began. I was considering doing that myself before deciding on the Iron Warriors as my Legion. As much as I love the Luna Wolves the siege-masters of the IVth legion and their masses of artillery call to me with a siren song I can't resist. The LW will definitely be making an appearance as an allied detachment later on though.

 

(And yes, that siren song did in fact sound like an action scene from a Michael Bay movie.)

Edited June 27, 2016 by BloodFox

[Demonl]

 

Luna wolves/sons of Horus: gameplay wise these guys for everything I like. Their close quarter oriented with lots of speed. Horus is pretty cool. Though I like the idea of doing loyalists for them. However that kinda kills a lot of options especially Horus.

 

Not if you base the army around the time period set before the Heresy began. I was considering doing that myself before deciding on the Iron Warriors as my Legion. As much as I love the Luna Wolves the siege-masters of the IVth legion and their masses of artillery call to me with a siren song I can't resist. The LW will definitely be making an appearance as an allied detachment later on though.

 

(And yes, that siren song did in fact sound like an action scene from a Michael Bay movie.)

 

Luna Wolves had Legio Mortis for heavy artillery support 

[ThatOneMarshal]

That's a brilliant idea slips! Haven't had the time to go read scars yet but I have been re reading the fluff sections of the last 3 codex space marines on the scars. I like the rather speed freaks vibe and the misunderstood soldier. I've been doing some serious reading on the Mongols and fundamentally both of them have similar tactics: speed, feints, mounted archers/ bikes. However the Mongols where WAAAY more night lordsy in there other approaches lol.

 

So I'm probably going to do a full bike army for them which leads me to wonder what to do with the infantry.

 

I'm thinking me some imperial fists or night lords :D.

Edited July 3, 2016 by ThatOneMarshal

[Slips]

In your choice of Night Lords vs Imperial Fists, you know where I stand :p

[Soldier of Dorn]

I'm thinking me some imperial fists or night lords :D.

http://i.imgur.com/iZtBS.jpg

 

:P

[ThatOneMarshal]

Wait a second I just realized I can use this way more often now: https://youtu.be/wRnSnfiUI54. I guess I know how to announce the primarch now :D.

 

It's a toughie between the IF and NL. On one hand I really like the good soldier, knows business attitude of the IF. With Templar brethren they pretty much play how I wished black Templars would play and I like the playstyle with them a lot.

 

On the other hand NL are badass. I also have 30 choom guns and 2 night lords heads packs so then I'm wasting money.

 

Pyscho you do bring up a good albeit expensive idea. For ETL split everything 50/50 in regards to infantry?

[Elysium126]

After much deliberation and pondering I know I am going to build a legion.

The problem I am running into is picking my legion, I have the list narrowed to imp fists, iron warriors, and ultras. I have looked up everything I can find online and it has allowed me to narrow the list down to these three.

What I am asking for is if anyone can tell me the true pros and cons of each so I know how to spend my money.

I do like lots of infantry types and dreadnought types. I also have the army list red book, still need to get the second red book.

 

Thank you for your consideration and help.

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, UM are generalists, with extremely efficient unique units (expect the Fulmentarii) but mediocre Legion rules. They are mostly geared towards shooting with defensive melee.

 

Iron Warriors are... well, also a rather shooty Legion actually, though far more artillery focused with infantry support. They do have access to stompy AdMech bots as well as unique ones though. Those may not be Dreads, but that might be up your alley as they are big and stompy. That would make for a really cool looking list.

 

If you want real Dreads on top of infantry, may I recommend Iron Hands? They can probably gain the most benefits for them with their Legion rules and their Infantry is quite resistant to small arms fire.

 

On a final note, the new LACAL book is all but here, so the resulting point cost adjustments may change your opinion. You can find the leaks in the AoD section ;)

[Commissar Ibram Gaunt]

I have recently returned to the modelling side of the hobby (avid black Library reader) and decided that I would like to collect a legion as well as some the knights errants and questoris knights eventually. I am undecided between a few legions and have spent numerous hours on forgeworld working out out what to combine with the BaC box set (looking to spend max 320 pounds at forgeworld).

 

The contenders:

 

Imperial fists - love the back story, the colour schemes and the characters so far. They also are at the siege of Terra. No primarch yet and not sure how easy painting a nice yellow will be with no airbrush.

 

Sons of Horus - Awesome character series. Nice colour scheme and good back story. Nice tie in with Loken to the knights errants as well.

 

Raven Guard - Love Corax model. Don't know as much about the background of them. Like heavily weathered things and this can be hard on black. Are not at the battle of terra?

 

Thousand Sons - Like the Egyptian theme and the colour scheme. Can this be achieved without airbrush though.

 

All other loyalist legions I would also be open too but many don't have any characters yet. I like what I see from a lot of legions but cannot narrow it down definitely to one.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Commissar Ibram Gaunt

[Nuriel-666]

Hey everyone!

Long time lurker, (almost) first time poster. I'm planning to return to Warhammer 40k (or rather, start Horus Heresy ) after five-year break, but I'll have small problem with choosing the right Legion just for me.

I've kind of vast knowledge about fluff and such, but I'm not really familiar with 7th edition rules, so I don't really know what's "viable" (i.e. not what's top tier but rather what's "tough" or "shooty" and so on. 
 

Three issues:

1) I want my army on a budget. Yeah, I know, it's Forgeworld, but still... What's the most "convertible" Legion - especially with models from Dark Vengeance set? 

2) What Legion has the most options for "Pride of the Legion-style" army? 

3) Best Legion for someone who likes his army more on shooty and / or extremely-tough-and-why-won't-you-die-!!! side of things?

I unterstand this may not be an easy answer and also, I'm totally open for suggestions in "maybe you should paint your minis green and call them Nurgle instead?"

Thanks in advance, and sorry for any grammar and spelling mistakes - english isn't my native language

Also, I'm sorry if someone on that 70 pages long thread post a similar problem - just post me the link and I'm on my way  

Have a nice day!  
 

Edited July 23, 2016 by Nuriel-666

[Doctor Perils]

Welcome back to the hobby :)

 

If you want legions on a (bit of a) budget, Games Workshop has bought out a new boxed game system for the Horus Heresy in it. It's got thirty tactical marines (or veterans) in mkIV armour, five Cataphractii Terminators, a Contemptor Dreadnought (not many people like it because it's monopose, but it's still not too bad), and two special characters. All of that is in plastic and is generic, so no need to file pesky iconography you don't want. It's called Betrayal at Calth, and can form a good basis for one (larger) or two legions - if you choose the latter, you can also play the game from the box which is rather fun.

 

If you've got your heart set on Dark Vengeance, then I'd say that the models fit best with Dark Angels (who'd have thought?) and the Word Bearers (it's conceivable for the Word Bearers to have quite mutated armour in the late heresy - plus they quite like using mortal meat shields I believe)

 

 

Pride of the Legion is really accessible to anybody, but I don't know which would be best for that.

 

 

The best shooty & tough legion might well be Iron Hands, then possibly Death Guard. Iron Warriors are also shooty, and they have Morale bonuses against shooting attacks, which can be very good considering the lack of "And They Shall Know No Fear".

[Viridia]

For 'convertible', I would definitely go with Lord Thorn's advice about the Word Bearers and the Dark Angels. Regular Possessed make fine budget Gal Vorbak, and plenty of cultists lets you run either an Imperialis Militia ally detachment or an Army of Dark Compliance, and the Helbrute model makes a nice Mhara Gal tainted dreadnought.
 
And of course, the DA models make decent Dark Angels. Nice thing about the Heresy is that if you have the Collector's Edition of Dark Vengeance, then the captain can be a praetor with artificer armour, the librarian is a centurion with the librarian upgrade, and the chaplain is a centurion with the chaplain upgrade since you can take up to three HQ choices. I would avoid using the terminator with assault cannon since only BA and IF's can take AC's for their terminators.
 
When it comes to Pride of the Legion, it's equally flexible since PotL only allows standard veterans and Termies to be taken as troops, not any of the legion-specific spin-offs. Disregard that bit as Lord Thorn has rightly pointed out. You can take Gorgon Termies and Deathshroud to your heart's content.

 

For making the most of it though, there's always the Alpha Legion with the Mutable Tactics rule allowing them to choose either 'Scout, Infiltrate, Tank Hunters, Counter Attack, Move Through Cover, or Adamantium Will' for their army when they choose their Warlord's trait, especially since it stacks with a Legion Veteran Squad's own tactics choices, so you can have furious charge and counter-attack, or infiltrate and tank hunters and so on. But just because they offer the choice of two tactics for your Veteran squads doesn't make them the best. All the other Legions have something to offer if you want to take advantage of it.
 
The third question, I'll break into two if that's okay. 'Shooty' armies in 30k tend to be the likes of;

- Imperial Fists with their +1BS when using nearly any variation on a bolt weapon, and that they give their Heavy Support squads Tank Hunter.
- Dark Angels can take some nice ranged upgrades like replacing Plasma Guns with Plasma Repeaters as well as taking Stasis Shells for ML's and GL's and Molecular Acid Shells for HB's.
- Iron Warriors have the Wrecker rule for all their grenades and Meltabombs, and can take Shrapnel Bolts for all Heavy Bolters which gives them Pinning in exchange for upping their AP to 5. It's not a dead-killy option, but it's there to help be a bit more tactical; sure, you can fire three shots which might penetrate a recon squad's armour, or you can just settle for pinning that dangerous unit so you can bring in bigger guns. Such is the way of Iron. Also, Tyrant Siege Terminators.
- White Scar Praetors can take Cyber-Hawks which can be moved anywhere on the board at the start of every turn and allow re-rolls of 1 to hit when any enemy model is in 6" of one. It's not massively useful, but it's still a boost to their shooting.
- Ultramarines have Interlocking Tactics which allow any UM unit shooting at a unit that's already been hit by an UM unit that same phase to reroll 1s on Penetration or to Wound rolls. Again, like White Scars, it's situational but handy, plus they have access to Fulmentarus terminators who are UM copies of Tyrant Siege Terminators.
- Sons of Horus/Luna Wolves have Death Dealers, which allows +1BS when shooting an enemy within 12" with Pistol, Rapid Fire or Assault weapons, but doesn't effect snap fire, overwatch or Fury of the Legion shots. This is a nice booster for things like Reaver squads, but it does call for you to get up close and personal. The other advantage they have is Banestrike bolter rounds which make to-wound rolls of 3 AP3 in exchange for only 18" range, again handy but situational.
- Salamanders get +1S to flamers, hand flamers and heavy flamers. Not great, but who needs great when you've got S5 flamers or S6 heavy flamers? Burn baby burn.
- Alpha Legion get Banestrike rounds like the SoH, which can come into play a little more, since while both AL and SoH Seeker squads can take them, the Alpha Legion has a rite of war which allows them to take seeker squads as troops.

 
So, shooty armies can be divided into 'generally killy' and 'helpful little things'. Onto the 'tough' legions, which I'll be dividing into 'actually tougher' and 'just hard to hit/bring down';

- Iron Hands get -1S to any shooting attacks made against them. The single physical example of 'actually tougher' on the list.
- White Scars infantry who move 6" or vehicles/jetbikes/bikes that move 12" from their starting point get +1 to cover saves for the remainder of the game turn.
- Night Lords models get a 5+ cover save on the first turn of a game. The most situational of them all, though they have a rule where they can fall back instead of being pinned. Handy for stopping your tactical support squad being mauled by a Praetor and his command squad after they fire shatter shells at you.
- Death Guard are immune to fear and auto-pass pinning tests. This is the start of just 'hard to bring down'.
- Iron Warriors don't take morale tests for shooting, and get to reroll failed Pinning tests. As 1d4chan says, it's extremely handy since while it doesn't increase their physical toughness or make them harder to hit, it's harder to stop them just by shooting.
- Imperial Fists are immune to pinning when in cover or fortifications/barricades.
- Salamanders auto-pass Fear tests and must re-roll 1d6 on Pinning and Morale tests.

If you're looking for a bit more info on the specifics then we tend to provide on B&C, I'd recommend the 1d4chan tactics page for 30k Legions; https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k) (Warning for some bad language lest the young'un's see something they're not supposed to), though of course there are also Legion specific tactica threads and so on here as well. Edited July 26, 2016 by Viridia

[Doctor Perils]

When it comes to Pride of the Legion, it's equally flexible since PotL only allows standard veterans and Termies to be taken as troops, not any of the legion-specific spin-offs.

Good points all in all :) However, has PotL changed? I know it used to allow legion specific termies (as long as they were in the elite slot)

[Viridia]

 

When it comes to Pride of the Legion, it's equally flexible since PotL only allows standard veterans and Termies to be taken as troops, not any of the legion-specific spin-offs.

Good points all in all However, has PotL changed? I know it used to allow legion specific termies (as long as they were in the elite slot)

 

Touché, I can't believe I've never noticed that. I've edited my post now.

[Doctor Perils]

 

 

When it comes to Pride of the Legion, it's equally flexible since PotL only allows standard veterans and Termies to be taken as troops, not any of the legion-specific spin-offs.

Good points all in all However, has PotL changed? I know it used to allow legion specific termies (as long as they were in the elite slot)

 

Touché, I can't believe I've never noticed that. I've edited my post now.

 

That's why the Tyrants moving to HS caused controversy among the IW who lliked playing rocket spam :P

[Guest Mordray]

Fyi someone wiped out that page you've linked to Viridia... Not even a history of page to look through.

[Slips]

Fyi someone wiped out that page you've linked to Viridia... Not even a history of page to look through.

Here: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k)

 

He accidentally removed the closing parenthesis when linking.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Sete]

Im going to be honest here. Im rolling with Custodes :D

Sweet Plastic Custodes and SoS. Mhmhmmhmh.