AfroCampbell Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Hey team, can you guys help me optimise this list a bit, its at 3000pts, but i want to be able to build up from 1200 and just add units, versing mostly 40k armies. Any advice on units to alter/drop/swap would be great. also any advice on mechanicum allies might be interesting too. ALPHA LEGION - XX LORD OF WAR Alpharius Total Points: 415pts Notes: Preferred Enemy (Everything) Armillus Dynat Mutable Tactic - Infiltrate Total Points: 200pts Notes: reroll sweeping advance and +1 on vehicle damage in enemy deployment, attaches to Lernean ELITES Lernean Terminator Squad Total Points: 435pts 5 additional men 200pts, Venom Sphere Harness Notes: 11pts pp extra for stubborn, extra WS, HoW, volkites and infiltrate (over average termies) . Legion Apothecary Detachment Total Points: 90pts Additional Apothecary Role: goes with Veteran Tactical Squads Headhunter Kill Team Total Points: 320 With Heavy bolter and Artificer Armour Role: Kill command squad TROOPS Legion Veteran Tactical Squad Total Points: 260pts 5 additional men nuncio-vox , legion vexilla, 2x Heavy Bolters Veteran Tactics - Sniper Legion Veteran Tactical Squad Total Points: 260pts 5 additional men nuncio-vox , legion vexilla , 2x Heavy Bolters Veteran Tactics – Sniper FAST ATTACK Xiphon Interceptor Total Points: 215pts Ground Tracking Augaries Role: Anti-air, and Anti-tank HEAVY SUPPORT Achilles Pattern Alpha Total Points: 300pts Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer Total Points: 220pts Role: Anti-tank Heavy Bolters, Axillary Drive Leviathan Pattern Siege Dreadnought Total Points: 315pts Role: Taking out MEQ/TEQ Leviathan Storm Cannon, Grav-Flux Bombard , Phosphex Discharger Notes: Sunder allows re-rolls of failed armour pen Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unseen Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I'm not sure on Dynat's rules, but he can't be the warlord if your also running alpharius. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/#findComment-4335078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Are you taking the headhunters for fluff reasons or is there a mechanical reason to prefer them over seekers? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/#findComment-4335099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I'm not sure on Dynat's rules, but he can't be the warlord if your also running alpharius. He can't be you're not precluded from taking him. Plus his warlord trait allows a single unit to deep strike, not adding +1 to damage whilst in the enemy deployment or the sweeping advance re-roll. Are you taking the headhunters for fluff reasons or is there a mechanical reason to prefer them over seekers? Headhunters are better than seekers when Alpharius are around IMO. Seekers get preferred enemy for one unit which is worthless when you have it on everything with Alpharius. Both have the same BS and are both scoring so having cheaper combi-weapon upgrades are a good thing to my mind Overall I like it. I personally wouldn't foot slog the Lernaeans with only 5 men. Whether you take a regular land raider or a spartan you can't afford to have them moving 6" per turn As for the Leviathan, stick with one of the melee weapons, I prefer the claw because even without armourbane from the drill, being able to do multiple wounds to infantry is pretty hot. And if you're using Dynat, take a pod for it. Get it in the enemy deployment zone turn 1 and invite them to try and get rid of the ablative HP from the pod before charging in and wrecking face Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/#findComment-4335157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 ^ This is pretty much exactly what I was going to say. :) Dynat's "Harrowing" rule combined with Alpharius' Preferred Enemy is a great combo, but you have to get into the enemy's deployment zone. Even a single Leviathan podding in is a scary prospect, especially if it has a melee weapon! Strangely enough, Scout might be a better option than Infiltrate. Alpharius has Scout, but he doesn't have Infiltrate, nor can he get it from Mutable Tactics. This leaves him in the lurch a bit... Scout confers to any Dedicated Transport you have, and they can get you VERY close to an enemy, and allows you to Outflank like Infiltrate, so keeps your options open. Couple of ideas for you: - lose the upgrades on the Sicaran Venator. Not worth it. - swap the Achilles for a Spartan for the Lernaeans. They are actually Troops in PotL, and giving the Harrower a fist & dagger is a brilliant deal. - lose the Apothecaries. - take Rhinos for the Vets, and swap the nuncio-voxes for artificer armour, as I don't think they do anything in this list. - take combi-plasmas on the Headhunters. Scouting & Infiltrating death-dealers that Rapid Fire 10 S7 AP2 shots with BS5 and Preferred Enemy? Nice. - take a DDP for the Leviathan, as Balthamal suggested. I'd also go with claw, grav-flux and phosphex. Tested out the above, and it clocks in around 3000 points. HQ Armillus Dynat TROOPS 9 Veteran Space Marines: legion vexilla; 2× heavy bolter; + 1 Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour); Sniper 260 • Rhino 9 Veteran Space Marines: legion vexilla; 2× heavy bolter; + 1 Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour); Sniper 260 • Rhino 9 Lernaean Terminators: chainfist; + 1 Harrower (chainfist; venom sphere harness; power dagger) 460 • Spartan Assault Tank: armoured ceramite; flare shield 340 FAST ATTACK Xiphon Pattern Interceptor: ground-tracking auguries 215 4 Headhunters: 4× combi-plasmas; + 1 Headhunter Prime (artificer armour; combi-plasma) 220 HEAVY SUPPORT Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer Leviathan Pattern Siege Dreadnought Talon • Leviathan Pattern Siege Dreadnought: grav-flux bombard; phosphex discharger 305 • Dreadnought Drop Pod LORDS OF WAR Alpharius: Rite of War (Pride of the Legion) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/#findComment-4335190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Caillum has pretty much nailed it. Just one point, don't start with Alpharius on the board and you can make sure he infiltrates if that's what you're shooting for ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/#findComment-4335546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfroCampbell Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 My only thing is I don't understand what the transports are required for the veterans for if they are infiltrating, surely i can just plop them down on an objective and start popping targets....? equally keeping the apothecaries for survivability isnt good? Alpharius can infiltrate by hiding in a unit so no panic there. love your work on the Termies. love the drop-pod leviathan idea with a CC, but he seems just as effective (if not more-so) shooting termies!!! i mean check out all those AP2 blasts! To be honest, I dont really like the spartan that much in terms of the model, and i felt the Achilles Alpha added in some tanky troop munching ability....?? in terms of the Headhunters, I can see them getting squished if only 5 men if i lose turn 1 roll. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/#findComment-4335597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 My only thing is I don't understand what the transports are required for the veterans for if they are infiltrating, surely i can just plop them down on an objective and start popping targets....? equally keeping the apothecaries for survivability isnt good? Alpharius can infiltrate by hiding in a unit so no panic there. love your work on the Termies. love the drop-pod leviathan idea with a CC, but he seems just as effective (if not more-so) shooting termies!!! i mean check out all those AP2 blasts! To be honest, I dont really like the spartan that much in terms of the model, and i felt the Achilles Alpha added in some tanky troop munching ability....?? in terms of the Headhunters, I can see them getting squished if only 5 men if i lose turn 1 roll. Thoughts? You can park them in a rhino and shoot out of the top :) And whilst in the rhino they're not dying. Little things like that will help a lot in a small model count army like this. Which brings too.... The Spartan is a monster to kill when you hit it up with Armoured Ceramite and a Flare Shield. Yes it can unload plenty of high strength low ap shooting which will benefit from Dynat's bonus but the main thing it'll do is deliver the Lernaeans to the line and into combat where they're at home. The Alpha doesn't do much anti tank in all honesty, 4 non twin linked shots at S8 with AP4 isn't much to write home about although the from Dynat again makes it an interesting proposition. The meltas are sub par with so much AC around, either go Choom or go home and focus on smacking infantry. The leviathan is the hardest counter to 2+ blobs in the game barring the Glaive and vanilla vindi hence don't gimp him with a storm cannon, it's crap when you can have a DCCW that has the potential to cause D3 wounds whilst still S10 and still AP2. The pod means he'll be in combat turn 2 with both fleet and move through cover Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/#findComment-4335614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfroCampbell Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 My only thing is I don't understand what the transports are required for the veterans for if they are infiltrating, surely i can just plop them down on an objective and start popping targets....? equally keeping the apothecaries for survivability isnt good? Alpharius can infiltrate by hiding in a unit so no panic there. love your work on the Termies. love the drop-pod leviathan idea with a CC, but he seems just as effective (if not more-so) shooting termies!!! i mean check out all those AP2 blasts! To be honest, I dont really like the spartan that much in terms of the model, and i felt the Achilles Alpha added in some tanky troop munching ability....?? in terms of the Headhunters, I can see them getting squished if only 5 men if i lose turn 1 roll. Thoughts? You can park them in a rhino and shoot out of the top And whilst in the rhino they're not dying. Little things like that will help a lot in a small model count army like this. Which brings too.... The Spartan is a monster to kill when you hit it up with Armoured Ceramite and a Flare Shield. Yes it can unload plenty of high strength low ap shooting which will benefit from Dynat's bonus but the main thing it'll do is deliver the Lernaeans to the line and into combat where they're at home. The Alpha doesn't do much anti tank in all honesty, 4 non twin linked shots at S8 with AP4 isn't much to write home about although the from Dynat again makes it an interesting proposition. The meltas are sub par with so much AC around, either go Choom or go home and focus on smacking infantry. The leviathan is the hardest counter to 2+ blobs in the game barring the Glaive and vanilla vindi hence don't gimp him with a storm cannon, it's crap when you can have a DCCW that has the potential to cause D3 wounds whilst still S10 and still AP2. The pod means he'll be in combat turn 2 with both fleet and move through cover Oh i was thinking of taking the Choom version anyway :) hmmm true, however would you not kill more termies per round with shooting both Grav weapon and the storm cannon? or even two Grav cannons?? also how many people can shoot out of a Rhino per turn? if i have ten guys in there they can't all shoot out from it right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/#findComment-4335689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 The storm cannon is ap4 isn't it? Waste of points when you've got the grav loaded up anyway imo Isn't it 2 that can shoot? 2 sniping heavy bolters at your service :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/#findComment-4335726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Heres the thing about giving a Leviathan Two Guns. One: Squandering its amazing CC potential. Two: Its longest range gun are the chest Caliver's at 30" Otherwise, its the Storm Cannon at 24" which is the weakest weapon it has access to imo. 6 Shots at S7 Ap3 w/ Sunder is cool and all but I'd prefer the S9 Ap1 3 Shots of the Melta Lance if I really wanted to tank bust. Three: With such short range guns, its pretty much a forgone conclusion that its going to get into CC. If you give it no CC Weapon, thats 3(4 charge) S8 Attacks at Ap- since it doesnt have smash innately w 2 S8 HoW hits if you get the charge off. vs (assuming charge) 2 S8 Hammer of Wrath Hits and 4 S10 Ap2 Attacks which, vs Multiwound Models, cause D3 extra wounds on a 4+ that need to be saved separately. Or, if you go with the Drill, 4 S10 Ap2 Armorbane Attacks. At initiative 5. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/#findComment-4335772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfroCampbell Posted March 15, 2016 Author Share Posted March 15, 2016 hmmm ok, fair... sigh i just don't like the drill look :( sad lol cos the other CC isnt as good right? or have I got that backwards? so if I want a shooty/CC one, what options should I swap to? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/#findComment-4335851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Grav, Phosphex and Claw are good for killing TEQ and 2+ Saves as well as Primarchs and MC's. Lance and Drill is the best Anti-Armor loadout for it. Both CC weapons are great. No idea why you'd think otherwise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/#findComment-4335856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfroCampbell Posted March 15, 2016 Author Share Posted March 15, 2016 cool, i have only seen the rules once, so its more ignorance than anything :) thanks slips. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/#findComment-4335941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 No problemo, yo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/#findComment-4335942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfroCampbell Posted March 15, 2016 Author Share Posted March 15, 2016 No problemo, yo. One more question, your thoughts on the Xiphon? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/#findComment-4336018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Personally, whilst I love the model and it's damage output is pretty good, it's really lightweight in terms of surviving. If you see a Deredeo it'll die the turn it arrives the majority of the time, and if you're playing 40k armies a fair bit then you'll be seeing plenty of anti air. It's a tricky one. But it's about striking the balance between effective "game" units and units you like the look of or fit in with the army theme you want Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/#findComment-4336048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imren Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I have had more versatility and survivability out of a fire raptor than a xiphon, although you loose ability to threat AV 13, 14 in favour for anti-infantry Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320332-the-alpha-and-omega/#findComment-4363950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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