Starting HH/30K Advice

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Hello fellow gamers!

I've been a 40k player since 2012 and thanks to BaC I'm jumping into HH/WH30K and I'm pretty excited about it.

So far I have just ordered BaC, no rules yet or anything. I don't what Legion I want to go with yet either. My 40K armies are SWs (main Army), DAs, and KDK. I feel like I want to try a legion different from those Chapters and I'm inbetween World Eaters and Ultrmarines. I like how savage and brutal of warriors the World Eaters are and I'm leaning towards them.  I also like Tanks and vehicles, and with the WEs being so troop focused I don't want to end up not being fluffy with the WEs if I'm not foot slogging. I've seen some painted models of Ultramarine legions on the internet and they just look incredible. Not to mention they are so large I feel like I'd have more freedom to buy the units I want and still end up accurate to the force. Other than that though I haven't been super interested in Ultramarine fluff... I feel like theyre just the generic good guys. Is there something about the World Eaters as a legion I don't know would fit my desires to have things like Tanks on the table?

What other purchases on top of BaC can you recommend?

Thanks in advance!

[Runefyre]

If you don't feel the fluff of a legion you're looking into, you're going to tire of them eventually (same goes for the paint scheme). Also, every legion had a little bit of everything, so even you take world eaters, you'd still be good if you decided to take tanks. I would recommend reading Betrayer by A-DB for some awesome world eaters fluff. The basic purchases that go hand in hand with BaC is some rhinos/drop pods, and some sort of heavy support (i.e. sicaran, leviathan, or spartan). Hope this helps.

[TompiQ]

There's nothing unfluffy about mechanized World Eaters, it just lets you reach the enemy and bash KILL, MAIM, BURN! them faster!

In fact, check out these pictures of a display board that Forge World themselves made for the HH weekender in February. It features nothing but world eaters:

http://battlebunnies.blogspot.se/2016/02/new-board-with-sokar.html

As you'll see, there's all kinds of vehicles in there. Among other there's jetbikes, a Rhino, a spartan, a Fellblade, a Thunderhawk, a Stormbird, a Storm Eagle, a Xiphon and several Land Raiders. Now I can assure you that the twelfth aren't a legion that keeps such toys around for parades only.

EDIT - Here's an older board that also features plenty of XII armour, including predators in case you worried there was nothing but transports!

http://www.spikeybits.com/2014/01/istvaan-iii-betrayal-horus-heresy-studio-table-gallery.html

[CaptainStabby]

grrr misclicked, disregard

[Ishagu]

Picking a Legion is tough, and with HH being pricey and time consuming it's not advisable to switch once you've started.

 

The Ultramarines have fantastic rules, unique units and a Primarch that us both capable in combat and works as a great force multiplier. They are easy to recommend and work best in mechanised lists.

 

Once you've settled on a Legion we can best advise you of what to purchase :-)

[Thordendal]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that legions like the Night Lords had whole companies devoted to tanks, and they've always struck me as an assault/fast attack type army. Just goes to show, you can get away with more than you think fluff wise.

I've started a WE army recently and they're a lot of fun to paint.

[Kossaka]

Certain legion rules limit certain choices in the army. Like Blood Angels and tanks as well as Iron Hands with Jump Infanty and bikes of both flavors. So if you know that you love to run certain types of units, it becomes much easier if you pick legion rules that don't limit the choices available. World Eaters are one of the more flexible legions available when it comes to choices though. Betrayal? the first HH book that FW made they specifically mention that the World Eaters maintained large armored battle groups that worked in concert with the infantry companies.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Picking a Legion is tough, and with HH being pricey and time consuming it's not advisable to switch once you've started.

 

The Ultramarines have fantastic rules, unique units and a Primarch that us both capable in combat and works as a great force multiplier. They are easy to recommend and work best in mechanised lists.

 

Once you've settled on a Legion we can best advise you of what to purchase :-)

Yeah, I wouldn't say so much that I'm not interested in their rules or fluff.. I've just not researched it much. That and they seem like they are the generic "good guy" of the 40K universe so I've always felt thats what theyre all about. I really love the blue they, a nice painted Ultramarine force looks very impressive. 

 

Which book(s) will I need to pick up for HH rules and play? 

[Brother Pheidias]

 

Picking a Legion is tough, and with HH being pricey and time consuming it's not advisable to switch once you've started.

 

The Ultramarines have fantastic rules, unique units and a Primarch that us both capable in combat and works as a great force multiplier. They are easy to recommend and work best in mechanised lists.

 

Once you've settled on a Legion we can best advise you of what to purchase :-)

Yeah, I wouldn't say so much that I'm not interested in their rules or fluff.. I've just not researched it much. That and they seem like they are the generic "good guy" of the 40K universe so I've always felt thats what theyre all about. I really love the blue they, a nice painted Ultramarine force looks very impressive. 

 

Which book(s) will I need to pick up for HH rules and play? 

 

Even though Ultras are often presented as the goodytwoshoes of the Imperium, there's always room for a particularly heavy-handed chapter, just look at what our very own Brother-Captain Arkhan has done with his Black One-hundred

[Ishagu]

 

Picking a Legion is tough, and with HH being pricey and time consuming it's not advisable to switch once you've started.

 

The Ultramarines have fantastic rules, unique units and a Primarch that us both capable in combat and works as a great force multiplier. They are easy to recommend and work best in mechanised lists.

 

Once you've settled on a Legion we can best advise you of what to purchase :-)

Yeah, I wouldn't say so much that I'm not interested in their rules or fluff.. I've just not researched it much. That and they seem like they are the generic "good guy" of the 40K universe so I've always felt thats what theyre all about. I really love the blue they, a nice painted Ultramarine force looks very impressive. 

 

Which book(s) will I need to pick up for HH rules and play? 

 

 

The Ultramarines of 30k are definitely not generic, they also have some of the best close combat units.

As for books, you need the following two:

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/The-Horus-Heresy-Legiones-Astartes-Crusade-Army-List   - This book has all of the generic units that can be fielded by all of the Legions, from troop types and HQs to Lords of War (Note that some units are missing as they came out after the release of this book, and it's suposed to get an update at some point this year)

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/The-Horus-Heresy-Legiones-Astartes-Age-of-Darkness-Legions   - This one has all the unique Legion units, Primarchs and "detachment types" for each Legion, it has just been updated also.

[Relict]

Welcome to the Heresy train!

 

I feel your pain there - it was not long ago when I was torn between the same two Legions. I ended up collecting both - my World Eaters collection is finished while my Ultramarines collection is very much a work in progress. 

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316426-relicts-shadow-crusade-blogmore-smurfs-p-12/

 

WE actually plays quite well when there's an armored component in the force (nothing like unleashing ten Terminators from a Spartan). The one potential downside (if you want to call it that) rests with Angron. Virtually all Primarchs bestow bonuses on their Legions - Angron is best used by getting him into melee as soon as possible, since he doesn't really boost his WE much. 

[Brother Pheidias]

 

WE actually plays quite well when there's an armored component in the force (nothing like unleashing ten Terminators from a Spartan). The one potential downside (if you want to call it that) rests with Angron. Virtually all Primarchs bestow bonuses on their Legions - Angron is best used by getting him into melee as soon as possible, since he doesn't really boost his WE much. 

But isn't that also the most appropriate representation of Angron? He's never been showed as particularly inspirational, or as showing any real qualities of leadership, once unleashed. He's good at one thing, and that's bashing any and everyone in sight.

 

More to the point, examine what you are looking for in a Legion. Is it the colour scheme, the background, or perhaps just some intangible attraction? I'd been dead set on Imperial Fists, 40k and 30k both, but then I was struck by an overwhelming urge to do White Scars, after painting a single one a year or two back, and now I'm up to my elbows in top-knotted bike-riders (not entirely true, most of them are still in their bags...). 

 

As others have said, most of the Legions were huge, with ample room for divergence from their stereotypical portrayals, the World Eaters and Ultramarines were particularly large, and in the case of the World Eaters, there was bound to be some divergence between those who embraced the Butchers Nails, and those who stuck to the traditions of the Warhounds for longer. Amongst the Ultramarines, there'd also be a great variety depending on the world of recruitment, and the preferences of the leadership of your part of the Legion. The Codex Astartes was still very WIP for most of the crusade, so the dogmatism and stringent adherence to the words of Guilliman would be less universal in those days. 

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

WE actually plays quite well when there's an armored component in the force (nothing like unleashing ten Terminators from a Spartan). The one potential downside (if you want to call it that) rests with Angron. Virtually all Primarchs bestow bonuses on their Legions - Angron is best used by getting him into melee as soon as possible, since he doesn't really boost his WE much.

 

But isn't that also the most appropriate representation of Angron? He's never been showed as particularly inspirational, or as showing any real qualities of leadership, once unleashed. He's good at one thing, and that's bashing any and everyone in sight.

More to the point, examine what you are looking for in a Legion. Is it the colour scheme, the background, or perhaps just some intangible attraction? I'd been dead set on Imperial Fists, 40k and 30k both, but then I was struck by an overwhelming urge to do White Scars, after painting a single one a year or two back, and now I'm up to my elbows in top-knotted bike-riders (not entirely true, most of them are still in their bags...). 

As others have said, most of the Legions were huge, with ample room for divergence from their stereotypical portrayals, the World Eaters and Ultramarines were particularly large, and in the case of the World Eaters, there was bound to be some divergence between those who embraced the Butchers Nails, and those who stuck to the traditions of the Warhounds for longer. Amongst the Ultramarines, there'd also be a great variety depending on the world of recruitment, and the preferences of the leadership of your part of the Legion. The Codex Astartes was still very WIP for most of the crusade, so the dogmatism and stringent adherence to the words of Guilliman would be less universal in those days.

Yeah see I was thinking it'd be fun to have a World Eaters legion to compliment the KDK force I started in 40k. I don't know if I have an overwhelming urge for UM, like you describe, but I find myself really drawn to their colors. I always liked the way UM looked but went with Space Wolves for my first chapter because I felt they were more CC oriented.

[Brother Pheidias]

 

Yeah see I was thinking it'd be fun to have a World Eaters legion to compliment the KDK force I started in 40k. I don't know if I have an overwhelming urge for UM, like you describe, but I find myself really drawn to their colors. I always liked the way UM looked but went with Space Wolves for my first chapter because I felt they were more CC oriented.

 

Ultramarines Assault Company then?

[Jerichus]

 

Yeah see I was thinking it'd be fun to have a World Eaters legion to compliment the KDK force I started in 40k. I don't know if I have an overwhelming urge for UM, like you describe, but I find myself really drawn to their colors. I always liked the way UM looked but went with Space Wolves for my first chapter because I felt they were more CC oriented.

I suggest you read up a bit more on the boys in blue; you might find you like them more than you thought you would. Ultramarines were much less the boy scouts during heresy-era than they are by the 40th millenium. 

 

That said; if you love the flavor of the World Eaters but not quite a fan of their color scheme perhaps you could alter it a bit? Even before Isstvan they aren't the most disciplined of Legions, And by the time the heresy reaches Terra the World Eaters turned from regiments to barely held-together warbands(essentially). Who's to say the old Chapter Master Bob of World Eaters chapter x didn't decide he liked how royal blue looked against blood? If you're feeling saucy you could even add some of the original colors in to show the old legion colors underneath the new coat.

 

To continue on that point: people seem to forget all the time that there's a whole bunch of diversity within each legion. Ultramarines have 500 worlds in their empire; your Ultramarines could be from any one of those, with all the cultural diversity that entails. Have an Ultramarine Company who hail from a world where everyone lived at high altitudes and thus favor assault troops and aerial insertion, go wild.  

 

Even World Eaters have tons of mini-factions inside the legion. There's the old terran vets who're holding onto the traditions of the War Hounds, Khârn's buddies, the new bloods who're all up in angron's nails, and pretty much anything else you can think of. Maybe a faction of ex-gladiators who were more duelists than butchers and refused to get the nails implanted? The sky's the limit, and the more you add your personal touches on the more you can add depth to your army!

[Bloody Legionnaire]

So I did some searching on the internet and discovered the War Hounds look very similar to the Ultramarines armor color. I've decided I could either paint my World Eaters as if they were more in line with the War Hounds or I could paint the World Eaters shoulder pads the darker shade of blue like the Ultramarines armor.

[Icarus1138]

The War Hounds have an excellent paint scheme, and could be explained any number of ways:

 

1. A Loyalist company that has reverted to their old colors.

2. An expeditionary force that has operated on their own for years.

3. A Terran company sticking with their roots.

4. Anything else you can think of!

 

As for World Eaters armor, HH: Betrayal specifically mentions that the legion had skilled ranged, armored, and artillery detachments. In one battle, their armored assault was so effective that Ferrus Manus (likely the most skilled armor commander in the Imperium) complimented them on it.

[Guiltysparc]

My advice would be that once you land on a legion read and engage in the tactica thread while working on a list that fits what you want to do. Once you have stuff nailed down then go in on purchases. My initial world eaters list is a far cry from what I have finally landed on.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Very wise. That's the exact thing I had to do with my Space Wolves, I bought Land Raiders and Terminators and ended up with a All out Drop Pod and TWC list...

Other than the BaC Box I figured something like a Land Raider or Sparten would be necessary.. but I'll definitely read up some.

[Ishagu]

The only thinh that stops me from recommending World Eaters is that they are quite a popular Legion in my experience.

 

I'm all for diversity. Also, I think Word Bearers would be thw most fun to play, paint and collect!

[Bloody Legionnaire]

The only thinh that stops me from recommending World Eaters is that they are quite a popular Legion in my experience.

 

I'm all for diversity. Also, I think Word Bearers would be thw most fun to play, paint and collect!

 

Are you still in England, that may be the case their? I don't know how popular 30K is in my area of the US so that may or may not be the case. Most of the guys I know have Imperial Fists. 

 

Do you think Ultrmarines are less popular? I got the idea of playing a super rogue Ultramarine faction that were particularly brutal and use the rules for WE for the UM.. I really gotta stop this back and forth and choose. One plus for the Ultramarines for me though.. I feel they will be much easier to paint the WE will be. I'm researching how to paint WE troops and Vehicles now and I feel like it'll be much harder than painting UM. I know Guilliman isnt' as much of a hardass on table as Angron but man I love that model! I really like the almost Roman officer look to him.

[Terminus]

WB can really utilize those transfers with all the small script. Painting your own with art pens (best thing ever if you haven't heard) is also an option.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I recommend 20 tacticals. The troop tax is almost ubiquitous for most lists, unless you specifically run certain RoWs including:

 

Pride of the Legion - makes Veterans and Terminators troops

Primarchs Chosen - Need a Primarch for this, obviously, makes Vets and Terms compulsory

 

And there are a smattering of other RoWs that turn HS/FA/Elites into troops, but for a basic core - 20 tacs split between 2 rhinos is the troop tax done for a lot of lists. Most other troop conversion RoWs require dreadnoughts, tanks or jetbikes etc which make them a very expensive list to create.

 

Most Legion specific RoWs don't make anything different compulsory troops, so the 2x10 Tac box needs to be ticked!

 

For World Eaters as well, Tacticals become a staple combat unit of excellent potency: cost ratio.

[Ishagu]

 

 

The only thinh that stops me from recommending World Eaters is that they are quite a popular Legion in my experience.

 

I'm all for diversity. Also, I think Word Bearers would be thw most fun to play, paint and collect!

Are you still in England, that may be the case their? I don't know how popular 30K is in my area of the US so that may or may not be the case. Most of the guys I know have Imperial Fists.

 

Do you think Ultrmarines are less popular? I got the idea of playing a super rogue Ultramarine faction that were particularly brutal and use the rules for WE for the UM.. I really gotta stop this back and forth and choose. One plus for the Ultramarines for me though.. I feel they will be much easier to paint the WE will be. I'm researching how to paint WE troops and Vehicles now and I feel like it'll be much harder than painting UM. I know Guilliman isnt' as much of a hardass on table as Angron but man I love that model! I really like the almost Roman officer look to him.

You'll be happy to know that Guilliman is actually one of the strongest Primarchs on the table, both in combat and in boosting his army. Paining the Ultras is a lot easier, blue is simply less complicated than White.

It's your call ultimately, if there's no Ultras in your area by all means go ahead and collect them. They are fun to play and offer multiple viable lists. Also, their unique units are fantastic.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

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