Death Guard from BaC

[Blackheart1223]

Greetings Brethern! I have decided on the Death Guard as my Legion of choice and have 2 boxes of BaC to start them with. I will be ordering the red books, Typhon and some Deathshroud Terminators before the end of this month. My question to everybody is this: how would one go about using the above as the basis for running the Reaping? Any advice would be awesome! Thanks in advance!

[Charlo]

Lots of heavy weapon teams, vets and terminators! All of which score!

 

Basically what it's there for!

 

Liberal use of rad grenades mean you are basically blood angels as well as death guard in combat too.

 

You have plenty of marines to make into heavy flamer and other such squads :)

[Blackheart1223]

Exactly what I was thinking!

 

For compulsory troops, do you think that 2x 20 tac squads are the way to go, or 2x10 Mounted in rhinos a better choice?

[Charlo]

Considering you will be having the Heavy weapon teams sit back and cap points in your DZ, Rhinos are nice to saturate the board and cap forward objectives.

 

20man blobs aren't particularly competitive but they are fun. With the reaping's move through cover and Rad grenades you can become a decent CC unit.

[DuskRaider]

The RoW relies on an infantry heavy list, as the Legion itself does. I would go max squads. They're not always the most flexible option on the table, but they're better than a minimum squad in a tin box. Give them Apothecaries to make them more durable. Honestly, while the bonus for taking the Rite is Heavy Support and Veterans as non-compulsory Troops, the meat and potatoes of the Rite revolves around complimenting the Legion's inherent trait rules and giving them an advantage up close, as is the case for Rad Grenades. I'll always suggest Terminators as well. If you go with Heavy Support squads, I'd recommend Plasma Cannons. LasCannons are good for punching through armor, and Volkite Culver Culverin will reduce most infantry to ash. To really guarantee their success (especially with Plasma Cannons), add a Master of Signal to their squad.

[Blackheart1223]

That's great advice, Dusk. Thank you for that. As far as terminators are concerned, I was considering converting mine to Grave Wardens. Do normal terminators have a place over them?

[DuskRaider]

A lot more flexibility. Grave Wardens look cool, but honestly they suck in anything other than Zone Mortalis or a heavy terrain board.

[Slips]

With the changes to the Grave Wardens in the new AoD book, they're a lot better than they were before.

...if only I could remember what they were

[DuskRaider]

They're still extremely limited in range and have no ranged anti-armour capabilities. They've gotten a bit better defensively, but they're still taking up a slot that could be better used to counter enemy armour.

[Slips]

Well, yeah, theres no doubt about that. But they can still take a Land Raider if the points allow and chainfists too like all terminators and still have 2+/4++ to tank with.

That said, its just more Anti-Infantry which the Death Guard shouldn't be lacking though the shift of HSS to troops does help displace any potential Heavy Support Problems you might encounter in the even that you do take them.

 

Deathshroud, however, now being able to sweep and going at S+1 Ap2 -1I and +1 Attack for having 2+ models in B2B (possibly up to 4+ Attacks each on the charge with proper placement) would probably be your go-to combat unit for Death Guard. They also come with Chem Hand Flamers that they can overwatch with. Couple that with Rad Grenades and they pack a punch. They can also take Melta Bombs which no other Terminator unit can.

 

A Character with a Scythe (probably not a Preator, Paragon Blade is still a better option; however you can possibly get 7 Attacks at I4 on the charge)

 

.......buuuuuuuuut, we're not really talking B@C contents anymore.

 

So.....yeah.

 

You've mostly got the right of it DuskRaider :p

[DuskRaider]

Deathshroud at this point are now beastly. They're a threat to anything that has an Initiative of 1 with the Power Scythe, and they're just frightening in general with the hand flamer.

Grave Wardens can also take Spartans. I love Spartans.

Strictly speaking with B@C, you'd do well to go with either The Reaping or Pride of the Legion, although with even two boxes you'll be hard pressed to field even a Heavy Support squad. Six Marines don't quite cut it, IMO.

[Slips]

Well, thats been a recurring theme for B@C armies: They're good starting points but you still need quite a fair bit of filling out to do for a Complete Army.

[DuskRaider]

Very true. I'll say with the surge of new players only using B@C, Grave Wardens may be a lot better, what with all the soft targets, hahaha.

[Slips]

Anyone with a Siege Breaker and Quad Mortars would be having a field day with all those Phosphex Canister Shots...

[DuskRaider]

Yep. Phosphex Mortars: because friends aren't really that important anyhow.

[Thudslugx]

Hi guys,

that's the short Version of the Changes in Book 6 for the Death Guard

 

-may re-roll dangerous terrain tests, regardless of what the terrain is

 

-instead of forcing successful rolls to wound with poison and fleshbane, DG get FNP(4+) instead

 

-power scythes lose unwieldy and the ability to replace attack value with number of enemy models in base contact with the following

‘reaping blow’: -1 initiative, if in base contact with more than one model at their initiative step, they gain +1 attack

 

-grave warden toxin rule replaced with ‘poison(3+)’ on death cloud and grenade launcher

 

-deathshroud can be taken as a HQ or elites choice, plus as a command squad for a terminator praetor or mortarion.

 

-mortarion’s scythe is no longer unwieldy, replaced with ‘reaping blow’.

 

-mortarion’s witch spite only affects maledicti

[Charlo]

Don't forget Grave Wardens can now overwatch with death cloud. This is huge.

 

They basically become super defensive terminators. Enemies lose thier bonuses for charging, get flamed to hell with D3 hits per guy and then get powerfisted into much. Add a Primus Medicae and they will hold the Damn line!

[Balthamal]

As for the heavy weapons squads,  hold off a week or 2, until the new kits drop at least since you'll have lascannons and plasma cannons that are compatible with the B@C marines then too. I've never really been a fan of the XIV Legion, probably due to the amount of fan love they get but with that boost to Deathshroud I can certainly see them finding a way into my coils list

[Blackheart1223]

I was planning on placing the order the week of the 27th anyways, sobI can definitely hold off. Hopefully they will be released by then.

 

As far as the Cataphractii go, what is the best way to equip them?

[Ishagu]

10 man Auto Cannon heavy support Squad with a Siege Breaker.

 

Do it, 20 Str 7 Tank hunting shots, and it's a significantly cheaper unit than Las/Missiles.

[DuskRaider]

As far as ranged weaponry, I have both Volkite Charger and Combi-Weapon squads. For Volkite it's all or nothing... in other words, other than your special weapons, everyone is packing a Charger. They may not have that special one time hit like Combi-Weapons do, but overall they can put a hurting on most infantry, if just from rate of fire alone. Deflagrate gives you the chance of causing even more wounds. Combi-Weapons, I tend to go with either Flamer due to the XIVth's Chem Flamer rule, or Melta. Special Weapons wise, I prefer Reaper AutoCannons for their range, but again Heavy Flamers get a nice bonus due to the Chem rule, so I like to throw them in as well.

 

Close combat wise, most of my Cataphractii are armed with Power Fists. I'll compliment these with a Chain Fists or two and Power Mauls. I prefer the Maul or the Axe due to its ability to swing at Initiative and hit most infantry on 2s. I give my Sergeants Thunder Hammers, but mainly to make it easier for everyone to tell them apart from my rank and file Terminators.

[Blackheart1223]

So far I'm looking at:

HQ-

Calls Typhon

5 Deathshroud

Siege Breaker in Cataphractii with chainfist and combi-weapon

 

Troops-

2x20 Tactical squads with extra CCW, vexila, sarg has artificer armour, melta bombs and Rad Grenades

1x10 Heavy Support with autocannons

1x10 Heavy Support with Lascannons

 

Elites

2 Apothecaries

1x5 Cataphractii with combi-Flamers and heavy flamer, 2x power fists, 2 chainfists, sarge has thunder hammer.

1x5 Cataphractii with combo-meltas and Reaper, 4 power axes and sarge has thunder hammer.

[Ishagu]

That will be a great start to a Heresy army. Imo you need transportation for all the Termies, but in terms of troops and heavy support it's looking great.

My one reservation with Las Cannon squads is just how expensive they are...

I think that the army would benefit from something like 2 Sicaran Venetors, or 2 Las Vindicators, whilst the second Heavy Squad is instead equipped with Volkites for that impressive anti infantry firepower at range.

[Charlo]

10 man Auto Cannon heavy support Squad with a Siege Breaker.

 

Do it, 20 Str 7 Tank hunting shots, and it's a significantly cheaper unit than Las/Missiles.

 

I know you advocate this Ish, but I just don't see it. I suppose it would be okay against Dreads/ Preds/ Sicarans, but it's still only about 3-4 Hull points from a Salvo.

 

It's cheap - sure, but it's not super effective. Even against AV12 you're only looking at 7ish Hull points, and if that Isn't a squadron it is a lot of firepower to dedicate to a single light tank....

 

I will say that it would look insanely cool on the table though and math hammer isn't the be all/ end all of unit choices :D

[DuskRaider]

Ishagu is right, LasCannon squads are wicked expensive. They can also punch a hole in almost anything if positioned correctly.

Terminators usually do need some mode of transport, especially Cataphractii with their S&P. I go with Spartans, but since you're fielding 5 man squads, Land Raiders work well.

Vindicators can now be taken in squadrons, so Laser Destroyer variants are even more crippling. Even fielding regular Vindicators and having them move up the field with the infantry is a nice option, although they'll probably get popped since their blast template is scary.