Legatus Thread - Civilized Discussion

[Daemon2027]

I just don't see the point in arguing over whose the best/largest/what ever legion and all these topics seem to head that way. I don't think it's one persons fault, but I do think some people take it all to heart rather quickly. If you feel passionately about one legion or another that's brilliant, show us your models, your painting, our own background, and yeah a little light banter is always fun but do t get offended when someone is passionate about a different legions.

 

The Age of Darkness section used to be such a fun place, lodse of cool ideas used to flow around and there was a real spirit that this was a place where anyone was welcome. But recently there's just been more and more arguing, and pointless discussions over whose better and these just end in personal attacks. Rember when we had a legion banter post, where we managed to have a friendly in character style argument. Yeah the mods probably tougher it was a bad idea but we kept it going and it mostly didn't turn ugly.

 

I think we all just need to lighten up about everything and accept we all have different opinions and interpretations of the background and they are al valid.

[Sete]

I seriously have no clue what you guys are talking about? What's the matter here :)?

Nobody agrees with me that Angron as conquered our hearths.

Also something about Sons of Horus and Ultras Measuring contest that went horribly wrong. :D

[Daemon2027]

 

I seriously have no clue what you guys are talking about? What's the matter here :)?

Nobody agrees with me that Angron as conquered our hearths.

Also something about Sons of Horus and Ultras Measuring contest that went horribly wrong. :D

I agree with you on Angron. Has to have been the most beloved of all the Primarchs.

[Atia]

I seriously have no clue what you guys are talking about? What's the matter here ?

Nobody agrees with me that Angron has conquered our hearths.

Also something about Sons of Horus and Ultras Measuring contest that went horribly wrong.

Atleast .... Angryron has the most stylish cape out there lol

[Memento Of Prospero]

I seriously have no clue what you guys are talking about? What's the matter here ?

Nobody agrees with me that Angron as conquered our hearths.

Also something about Sons of Horus and Ultras Measuring contest that went horribly wrong.

I agree with you on Angron. Has to have been the most beloved of all the Primarchs.

When you are within 10 paces of him he is ;)

[Lord Blackwood]

So not for nothing but I intentionally stayed off these boards yesterday when I did look at them I  saw the thread in question and went. 

" Well at least its , its own thing and not poisoning other threads." 

You know why I thought that?  Because that is yer boy's M.O.  he will go into a thread with only the most tangential relation to ultramarines and make it about ultramarines stand on his soapbox and tell everyone they are wrong about fluff qoute back old stuff from old books and savagely derail threads because of his own personal bias and stubbornness. 

People "dog pile" him because they are tired of hearing him rehash the same thing over and over again in threads that may not be directly about the ultramarines 

I feel like the issue is not his position because he is more than welcome to have it  but  treating other people like they are less than intelligent or just ignorant because they work from the more recent fluff  and taking EVERY opportunity to jump up on yer soapbox to shout to the world yer dismay about X y or Z is just bothersome it causes threads to spiral out of control and it colors peoples perception of yer tone. 

Civility is possible sure but only when one is open to other points of view and capable of accepting that  it is a fictional history that is being changed and streamlined. The same issue exists in the Black Templar sub forum about the whole religious inclinations and you know what thats also a tired discussion  so much so that I rarely even travel into that sub forum because you actually FEEL like your wrong for accepting a change to the fluff because everyone else treats it with such venom.  Whenever a thread starts about it the same old hats will turn around and tell you  " no yer wrong 4th edition codex ! " or  " No your wrong codex armageddon"   no matter what you say or how you approach it they wont budge and when people wont budge or bend in a discussion about fictional lore then there is no conversation there , it is just a ring around the rosy of butthurt  and snide backhanded comments. 

I feel like im rambling so ill  end with this 

Dorn was obviously the best Primarch because the Black Templars were a second founding chapter from  his legion this is an undisputed fact and anyone who disagrees with me may engage me in fisticuffs.  

[depthcharge12]

Does it matter who had the most victories or compliances?

 

Because at the end of the day, we all know it's the Dark Angels who are the best! :P

 

Joking fanboyisms aside, Legatus did put up cited sources that he thought were in contention and didn't know what qualified still or was overwritten. I think he was just trying to disseminate what a compliance and a victory counted as.

[Lord Blackwood]

Dorn was obviously the best Primarch because the Black Templars were a second founding chapter from his legion this is an undisputed fact and anyone who disagrees with me may engage me in fisticuffs.

Does it matter who had the most victories or compliances?

Because at the end of the day, we all know it's the Dark Angels who are the best!

FISTICUFFS

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

[Soldier of Dorn]

Indeed, Angron dominates *all* fireplaces ;)

 

That spiraled off topic fast.

[Dargoth]

So I've only been on here a few days but speaking as a guy who discovered Space Marines back when they beat up guys doing graffiti and hung out in bars, I'm really surprised there is this much debate about which bit of fluff is the true bit of fluff.  Isn't it just generally accepted that GW will and probably already has retconed pretty much everything?  Also, if the fluff is changed it doesn't really matter since there is so much room for our own head canon that you can just about justify anything. (maybe not Khârn in a pink bunny suit, oh crap now I''m coming up with some weird slaaneshi practical joke that ends up with Khârn in a bunny suit tied to a bed in a sleazy motel)

[DuskRaider]

Bladewolf is also correct. Many a thread have been completely derailed and even sent off into the ether due to this very subject. Just yesterday (or the day before) two threads wereally shut down because it became nothing but an Ultramarines whine thread, when they weren't even the topic to begin with... started by the same individual.

[Ishagu]

None of the Ultramarine players are "whining"

 

An educated critique isn't the same thing.

[Lord Blackwood]

I have nothing but the utmost respect for you  Ishagu  but I  will have to disagree with you on that. 

It is whining , its the rehashing of the same thing over and over again that will  not only change nothing but rarely if ever leads to remotely  worthwhile conversation. 

 

[Marshal Rohr]

It doesn't matter if it's rehashing or whining. It only matters if it is off topic or blatantly attacking another poster.

[Scribe]

I seriously have no clue what you guys are talking about? What's the matter here ?

Nobody agrees with me that Angron as conquered our hearts.

I'll agree to this!

As to the locked thread, I'm sorry I missed it I see it was going places. ;)

[Hesh Kadesh]

None of the Ultramarine players are "whining"

 

An educated critique isn't the same thing.

Lots of words =/= educated.

 

It used out of date sources, rambled, used bad sources frequently decried as being jingoistic nonsense within the wider community, happy to cite that as canon and then ignored other sources on the strength of their author.

 

It was a biased, overly long, whinge thread that essentially boiled down to 'I want to be the best, why am I not the best?'.

 

Personally, I'm surprised he's even considering the Ultramarines a legion. As far as I'm concerned, they were banished to tbe warp as for being traitors.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

None of the Ultramarine players are "whining"

An educated critique isn't the same thing.

Lots of words =/= educated.

It used out of date sources, rambled, used bad sources frequently decried as being jingoistic nonsense within the wider community, happy to cite that as canon and then ignored other sources on the strength of their author.

It was a biased, overly long, whinge thread that essentially boiled down to 'I want to be the best, why am I not the best?'.

Personally, I'm surprised he's even considering the Ultramarines a legion. As far as I'm concerned, they were banished to tbe warp as for being traitors.

Here is an example of how bad the posting culture has become. Hesh has now called Legatus a jingo. He has also attributed motives to Legatus as being a selfish cry about not being the best. Hesh has not attacked Legatus ideas, but has attacked Legatus himself. See, Hesh does not like Legatus as a person/poster and is going out of his way to attack him. Instead of simply disagreeing with Legatus, Hesh is deriding his opinions as invalid because of personal distaste for them.

 

I very rarely agree with Legatus take on the new Heresy fluff, many people don't agree with my take on Templar fluff changes. The difference of course is you will never see Legatus and I attack each other personally. We may passionate argue about ideas, validity of source material, preference for sources, or authors. But we've never resorted to insults like Hesh has.

[Memento Of Prospero]

 

 

None of the Ultramarine players are "whining"

An educated critique isn't the same thing.

Lots of words =/= educated.

It used out of date sources, rambled, used bad sources frequently decried as being jingoistic nonsense within the wider community, happy to cite that as canon and then ignored other sources on the strength of their author.

It was a biased, overly long, whinge thread that essentially boiled down to 'I want to be the best, why am I not the best?'.

Personally, I'm surprised he's even considering the Ultramarines a legion. As far as I'm concerned, they were banished to tbe warp as for being traitors.

Here is an example of how bad the posting culture has become. Hesh has now called Legatus a jingo. He has also attributed motives to Legatus as being a selfish cry about not being the best. Hesh has not attacked Legatus ideas, but has attacked Legatus himself. See, Hesh does not like Legatus as a person/poster and is going out of his way to attack him. Instead of simply disagreeing with Legatus, Hesh is deriding his opinions as invalid because of personal distaste for them.

 

I very rarely agree with Legatus take on the new Heresy fluff, many people don't agree with my take on Templar fluff changes. The difference of course is you will never see Legatus and I attack each other personally. We may passionate argue about ideas, validity of source material, preference for sources, or authors. But we've never resorted to insults like Hesh has.

 

 

He did not call him a jingo. re-read before criticizing. He attacked his source material. He doesn't even mention Legatus.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

 

None of the Ultramarine players are "whining"

An educated critique isn't the same thing.

 

Lots of words =/= educated.

It used out of date sources, rambled, used bad sources frequently decried as being jingoistic nonsense within the wider community, happy to cite that as canon and then ignored other sources on the strength of their author.

It was a biased, overly long, whinge thread that essentially boiled down to 'I want to be the best, why am I not the best?'.

Personally, I'm surprised he's even considering the Ultramarines a legion. As far as I'm concerned, they were banished to tbe warp as for being traitors.

Here is an example of how bad the posting culture has become. Hesh has now called Legatus a jingo. He has also attributed motives to Legatus as being a selfish cry about not being the best. Hesh has not attacked Legatus ideas, but has attacked Legatus himself. See, Hesh does not like Legatus as a person/poster and is going out of his way to attack him. Instead of simply disagreeing with Legatus, Hesh is deriding his opinions as invalid because of personal distaste for them.

I very rarely agree with Legatus take on the new Heresy fluff, many people don't agree with my take on Templar fluff changes. The difference of course is you will never see Legatus and I attack each other personally. We may passionate argue about ideas, validity of source material, preference for sources, or authors. But we've never resorted to insults like Hesh has.

 

He did not call him a jingo. re-read before criticizing. He attacked his source material. He doesn't even mention Legatus.

Incorrect. He can be referring to no one else but the OP when he specifically criticizes the original post.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Precious. Try again, Rohr.

[Balthamal]

Let's all agree that the topic is prone to highly energized debating that sometimes gets out of hand and that's true of all subjective angles on all the Legions.

 

Ultramarines players on the whole aren't "whiners", the same that every other Legions players aren't "whiners", there'll always be the couple who are willing to argue semantics over the subject however. That thread devolved from a decent debate the moment that opposing views were offered, then rebutted with the same initial points that said opposing views were offered on. That and the condescension in the tone implied that any distension was the result of the people offering alternative opinions were inbred/retarded/sub human and that we should know our place and keep it. Was that the intention of the post? I highly doubt that. In the years I've been on the B&C I've only come across three individuals who would go out of their way to put down someone personally for not agreeing with the "way things should be" with them.

 

As for the supporters of the statements therein, Ishagu at least presented a reasoned and calm response about why the potential conflict of sources didn't cut any mustard. Do I agree with that? No, but that's neither the here nor there. The fact he didn't "dog pile" in on anyone or simply quote/copypaste something stated previously has nothing but respect from me.

 

But here's the thing, and I'll use the UM as an example as it's one I've had direct experience with: the changes between 2/3/4 edition codex UM/SM wherein the Ultramarines went from being slapped around right left and center during the battle of Maccragge to being tactical geniuses who showed those pesky xenos what for. Whilst, as in this case, stating that the older editions clearly make a point of noting the UM supremacy. TL;DR you can't have everything, picking and choosing bits and pieces of writing to suit opinions/prejudices isn't an option. Thankfully the person who saw fit to argue with me on that score has since left the B&C. 

 

Bottom line guys, we love this hobby, the fact we care about it passionately enough to discuss some of the minute in it's background is what makes it so good. Nobody should be taking shots at each other for expressing an opinion. But having said that nobody should be talking down to anyone else either because they're in the firm belief their opinion is right, whether it's backed up by cast iron evidence or something flimsy.

[Marshal Rohr]

Precious. Try again, Rohr.

 

Here again is another example. Hesh is upset I have pointed out he is being hostile, yet he did nothing to explain WHY he wasn't being hostile.

[Arkangilos]

I want to point out, the ultramarine hate is usually what brings Legatus in in the first place. Usually something about ultramarines comes up, someone spouts anti-ultra stuff, then Legatus shows up.

[Remus Ventanus.]

How is it that every single thread some how devolves into something about uLtramarines.