fury of the ancients tactica

[Runefyre]

I've been wondering lately, has anyone had any experience with/thoughts on using the dreadnought RoW? It looks fluffy and fun but kinda sucks with the whole vp per dread thing . The other annoyance is being (for all intents and purposes) forced to take a land raider/retinue to support you're mandatory 3 HQ choices. I would take castraferrum dreads as troops as they are situationally better than contemptors because of their cheapness and access to armoured ceramite, then take cortus in elites sections, supported by deredeos and leviathans in HS.

[Charlo]

You've summed it up pretty well really!

 

This would've been amazing, if it weren't for the 1VP per dread....

 

Even just 1 VP per talon would've been fair and forcing your troops choice dreads to be at least 2/3 strong :(

[shandwen]

I love dreads and would love to try this one out, but it doesn't have any place competitively.  I also hold to the legion dreads for troops thing.  Contemptors are too costly, and I might even say to leave the cortus ones at home as well to give more room to termies and the like.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

It just seems like an auto-lose. Even if you bash them up good you'll lose enough dreads to lose overall....not to mention losing VPs to other objectives made.

[Runefyre]

Regardless of the limitations, I intend to run this RoW at some point, I think it'll be loads of fun. What would be your thoughts on loadouts? I tend to think leaving the regular dreads with a twhb and fist with grav gun, dual grav gun fist on cortus's, and bombard/claw on leviathans. Perhaps Shandwen's idea of replacing cortus with termies might have some merit. I think this army gains most value when taken in tandem with other armies in larger apocalypse games (2,000 pts per person, 4 people to a team, no super heavies type games are common at my flgs).

[Slips]

I just hate Box Dreads.

 

Cheap as they are, they're WS/BS 4 vs WS/BS 5 of a Regular Dread, dont have an Invulnerable Save and are Av 12 vs Av 13 Front. Sure, they can take Armored Ceramite but thats not going to help you against Armorbane Meltabombs.

 

Cortus are nice and cheap but I'd probably only take them to take on Blobs/Armor/Other Dreads. For general Purpose Combat? I'd still, prefer the WS/BS5 of the Prime since it means either parity when in CC or hitting on 3s, getting hit back on 4s; something that might make all the difference in the world.

 

Also a 1in6 chance of negating any CC damage with its invuln is a nice Outlier to have in the event that it does occur.

 

I'd still take a Deredeo in HS, and 2 Leviathans because, why not? In an Odd turn, I'd actually take a few Contemptor Primes with Heavy Conversion Beamers for more Backfield Firepower / Objective Camping (since they score as troops).

 

Something like:

 

+++ Dreadhead (3500pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (3500pts) ++

 

+ HQ (465pts) +

 

Legion Centurion (150pts) [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner, Cyber-familiar, Rad Grenades, Refractor Field, Solarite Power Gauntlet]

····Consul

········Forge Lord [Father to the Brethren of Iron]

 

Legion Centurion (130pts) [Artificer Armour, Refractor Field, Solarite Power Gauntlet]

····Consul [Primus Medicae]

 

Legion Praetor (185pts) [Artificer Armour, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Mastercraft a Single Weapon, Melta Bombs, Paragon Blade]

····Master of the Legion [Fury of the Ancients]

 

+ Troops (1190pts) +

 

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (220pts)

····Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Heavy Conversion Beamer, Heavy Flamer]

 

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (220pts)

····Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Heavy Conversion Beamer, Heavy Flamer]

 

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (220pts)

····Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Heavy Conversion Beamer, Heavy Flamer]

 

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (265pts)

····Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod]

 

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (265pts)

····Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod]

 

+ Elites (795pts) +

 

Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon (240pts)

····Cortus Dreadnought [Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, 2x Graviton Gun, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod]

 

Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon (240pts)

····Cortus Dreadnought [Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, 2x Graviton Gun, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod]

 

Templar Brethren (315pts) [6x Combat Shield, Legion Vexilla, Melta Bombs, Nuncio-vox, 6x Templar Brethren]

····Chapter Champion [Combat Shield, Solarite Power Gauntlet]

 

+ Fast Attack (100pts) +

 

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod (100pts)

 

+ Heavy Support (950pts) +

 

Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought (220pts) [Aiolos Missile Launcher]

 

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon (360pts)

····Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Cyclonic Melta Lance, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod, Leviathan Siege Drill]

 

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon (370pts)

····Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Grav-flux Bombard, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod, Phosphex Discharger]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [Loyalist, VII: Imperial Fists]

 

7 Pods in this list, meaning 4 on T1 the rest later on. So that would be the 2 Leviathans and 2 Cortus first to drop down and bring the pain each with pretty self explanatory Roles.

 

3 HCB Dreads and the Deredeo stay in the Back Field pumping shots down Range. The Threat of S10 Ap1 Large Blasts should be enough to cause your opponent some trouble, at the very least get him to move out of the S10 Range or Camp Cover. These dreads also have Heavy Flamers in the even of Backfield Stuff Dropping in.

 

2 Kheres & Grav Contemptors are there mostly as backup and their loadout is probably the most flexible. Gave them a pretty "ok" generalist loadout that I prefer.

 

HQ and Templar hop into the Pod Together. Sure, they cant take Power Axes or Fists en masse but the Sol Gloves being MC'd and Non-Specialist means that each one in the Squad gets +1 re-rollable attack over regular Power Fists. That Translates to: 5 Attacks on the Primus and Forgelord on the Charge (who gets another S8 Ap2 hit w/ Servo-Arm) and 4 Attacks on the Templar Champion. I would've liked to take a TDA squad but 3 HQs in TDA + min TDA Command Squad are 12 Slots (bulky). Would require a Kharybdis, Caestus or Spartan at that point. So the Templar are the next best thing.

 

With each Talon only being 1 Slot, you can have 6x3 Contemptors in Troops, 3x4 Cortus in Elites and 3x3 Leviathans in Heavy Support if you felt like it with this RoW.

 

Sure, you're losing 1VP per dead dread but with the above list being AV13 you're only really dying to Anti-Tank since you aren't susceptible to most Anti-Infantry weaponry.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Box Dreads are WS5. The 6++ Save isn't going to help vs massed Meltabombs either way, and the reduced armour isn't such a problem either way.

 

The 5++ against shooting is alright. I'm not entirely sure what it brings to a list when you can already take 3 Dreads etc in Talons.

[Runefyre]

I personally like the way castraferrum look, so that's kinda what I lean towards. Plus in my experience, against melta bombs, the difference between av 12 and 13 don't matter too much, and I'd rather have meltaguns glancing on 4+ against front and side instead of trusting to av 13 against 2d6 armour penetration. I do miss the invuln save though . Also, I think legion dreadnoughts are still weapon skill 5

 

fury of the ancients (3,500 points)

legiones astartes crusade army list (ultramarines)

age of darkness FoC

 

HQ-395 points

 

Legion Centurion (consul delegatus)-artificer armour, refractor field, legatine axe

 

Legion Centurion (consul forge lord)-artificer armour, refractor field, legatine axe, augury scanner, rad grenades, cyber familiar

 

Legion Centurion (consul primus medicae)-artificer armour, refractor field, legatine axe

 

Troops-1400 points

 

Legion dreadnought talon (3 dreadnoughts)-armoured ceramite, graviton gun

 

Legion dreadnought talon (3 dreadnoughts)-armoured ceramite, graviton gun

 

legion contemptor dreadnought talon (1 dreadnought)-heavy conversion beamer, heavy flamer

 

legion contemptor dreadnought talon (1 dreadnought)-heavy conversion beamer, heavy flamer

 

Elites-670

 

legion contemptor cortus talon (1 dreadnought)-replace twin linked heavy bolter with power fist with inbuilt twin linked bolter, replace twin linked bolter with graviton gun, replace twin linked bolter with graviton gun, legion dreadnought drop pod

 

 

legion contemptor cortus talon (1 dreadnought)-replace twin linked heavy bolter with power fist with inbuilt twin linked bolter, replace twin linked bolter with graviton gun, replace twin linked bolter with graviton gun, legion dreadnought drop pod

 

Invictus suzerains-thunder hammer

 

fast attack-100 points

 

legion dreadclaw drop pod

 

heavy support-940 points

 

legion leviathan siege dreadnought talon (1 dreadnought)-armoured ceramite, grav flux bombard, legion dreadnought drop pod

 

legion leviathan siege dreadnought talon (1 dreadnought)-armoured ceramite, cyclonic melta lance, leviathan siege drill, legion dreadnought drop pod

 

legion deredeo dreadnought

 

This list has 8 scoring dreadnoughts on the board, putting out a decent amount of heavy bolter shots (or multameltas alternatively) plus quite afew graviton blasts, and 2 str 10 large blasts. This is supported by 2 leviathans and 1 cortus coming in turn one, and suzerains and one additional cortus coming later. But this list still will struggle to win 'cause of all those "free" victory points sitting there. Not to mention flyer heavy lists, one deredeo won't cut it against more than 2-3 flyers (even that is stretching it).

[Slips]

Shows how little I care about Box Dreads.

 

But, Like I said:

 

Also a 1in6 chance of negating any CC damage with its invuln is a nice Outlier to have in the event that it does occur.

 

+++

 

For the Box Dread Talon: Footslogging Box Dreads with Heavy Bolter, Grav and AC are propbably not doing to do much besides sitting on an Objective and hope they can use the 18" on their Grav Guns to glance Av. Outside of that, they aren't really doing anything other than hoping to not die. Might as well just swap the +20 in Armored Ceramite for a better gun than a Heavy Bolter so that they can contribute a bit more.

 

And since you went for Quantity over Quality, you actually have more VPs up for Grabs compared to mine where only the Deredeo and Conversion Beamer Contemptors are at risk T1 for giving up VPs (if I go 2nd) - a Maximum of 4 - vs your 7 VPs.

 

Its worth noting that due to Armored Ceramite generally being a thing, massed melta isnt really a threat in 30k; its a non-factor in my games at least. The only Melta we've got is from my Achilles or the Leviathans that are starting to pop up. And vs S8 Shooting In general, I'd much rather have Av13 than Av12. But, anecdotal evidence is anecdotal and the threat of Melta is a Local Meta dependant thing.

 

I also have the Majority of my Dreads Podding in (6) who are all going to be sitting inside their Shrouded, 3HP Drop Pods for a turn before hopping out which reduces the odds of them dying and giving up a VP by quite a bit.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Runefyre]

Shows how little I care about Box Dreads.

 

But, Like I said:

 

Also a 1in6 chance of negating any CC damage with its invuln is a nice Outlier to have in the event that it does occur.

 

+++

 

For the Box Dread Talon: Footslogging Box Dreads with Heavy Bolter, Grav and AC are propbably not doing to do much besides sitting on an Objective and hope they can use the 18" on their Grav Guns to glance Av. Outside of that, they aren't really doing anything other than hoping to not die. Might as well just swap the +20 in Armored Ceramite for a better gun than a Heavy Bolter so that they can contribute a bit more.

 

And since you went for Quantity over Quality, you actually have more VPs up for Grabs compared to mine where only the Deredeo and Conversion Beamer Contemptors are at risk T1 for giving up VPs (if I go 2nd) - a Maximum of 4 - vs your 7 VPs.

 

Its worth noting that due to Armored Ceramite generally being a thing, massed melta isnt really a threat in 30k; its a non-factor in my games at least. The only Melta we've got is from my Achilles or the Leviathans that are starting to pop up. And vs S8 Shooting In general, I'd much rather have Av13 than Av12. But, anecdotal evidence is anecdotal and the threat of Melta is a Local Meta dependant thing.

 

I also have the Majority of my Dreads Podding in (6) who are all going to be sitting inside their Shrouded, 3HP Drop Pods for a turn before hopping out which reduces the odds of them dying and giving up a VP by quite a bit.

What you're saying is true, and I actually agree with you, I was going more for rule of cool than anything else (probably should have made that more clear ), since it's not a very competetive RoW. The one place I differ on is armoured ceramite, i play 30k in a 40k environment (only my brother and I collect legion armies) and more specifically astra militarum heavy ( with lots of meltagun equipped veterans being a mainstay). So armoured ceramite makes more sense for my meta if I want my dreads/vehicles to stay alive.

[Slips]

Its dreadhead LOL Totally go for the Rule of Cool! I just like Contemptors that much more than Box Dreads that, If I could, I'd totally build towards a 6k Dreadhead List for use in our Apoc Games.

 

Sadly, I dont have that kind of money and am only at 5 Contemptors and 1 Deredeo.

[Hesh Kadesh]

'only' XD i have 2 Cheapo Box Dreads from 4th ED (unpainted still).

[Memento Of Prospero]

I probably have the models for a dreadhead list.

 

6 Contemptors, 1 Deredeo, 2 Leviathans (in the mail) and a couple trash box dreads I could convert.

 

Box dreads are neat with the flamestorm cannon.

[Theredknight]

Musing upon this..would iron hands be a good choice for legion?

 

Tactically speaking, I suppose if you wanted to use box dreads (I actually have 6 unpainted in a box..don't ask) you could use the other units to shield them. Land raiders could block LOS while the boxes move up.

You could also use the pods as a sort of screen, if you place them well enough (they are massive dread drop pods I use mine as cover for my assault marines in angels)

Alternatively you could use a couple of contemptors to obscure, giving a cover save.

Or even stick that thing on a deredeo and have all of them walk up giving +1 to invul.

I have in my selection, 6 contemptors, 2 leviathans 2 deredeo and 9 boxes. They are split between 2 legions, but.. I'm sure my opponent locally would be up for a fun game

[Slips]

Iron Hands w/ Ferrus would be the strongest. IWND on all Av13+ Dreads and the option to purchase Blessed Autosimulacra for 2 Chances every turn to regen a Lost Hull point on a 5+ and 6+ respectively.

 

Makes them pretty damn tough.

 

Otherwise, dreads dont benefit from Legiones Astartes so any of them can run this pretty well with no real downside.

 

Alpha Legion can also take Dynat to give the Dreads +1 to Vehicle Damage Chart when in your opponents Deployment. Means that Leviathans are getting explodes Results on a 4+ with their Cyclonic Melta Lance, or on a 3+ vs Open-Topped.

[Theredknight]

Ouch!

I was chatting to my group about this, as long as the hq section is painted in the colour of the legion we want to use, then that's fine. Everyone is different but as long as the dreads were mostly painted and based I wouldn't mind. Guess Itl be a bit like duck shoot.

Itl be a bit like shattered legions, just with dreads.

So an iron hands frater has been given command of 2 other legions dreads units. It is reasonable fluff to explain 2 different colours on dreads.

The talons are painted the same at least, for cohesion..I only buy in talons!!!

I'd probably tell my opponent about the ROW though, or having dreads stomp about might upset them when 3 crash into a unit of tactical marines and tear them apart.

[RandomMarine]

To be fair the standard IH row & Ferrus makes a much better dread list IMO.

[Memento Of Prospero]

To be fair the standard IH row & Ferrus makes a much better dread list IMO.

 

Indeed. Less wasted HQ slots and less victory points given. Good I love Head of the Gorgon!

[Terminus]

I think the mistake here is to fall head-first into spamming the crap out of dreadnoughts, when that VP drawback really kicks in.

 

I would use it as just a base to clear up some space in the Elite section and get rid of the tactical troop tax.  Forge Lord and/or Primus Medicae are both components of many potent close combat units, so I'd go with that as well.

 

So for example:

 

Praetor

Primus

Forge Lord

Command Squad

Elites: Quad Rapiers

Elites: Quad Rapiers

Elites: Terminators in Dreadclaw

Elites: Terminators in Dreadclaw

Troops: Contemptor with conversion beamer

Troops: Contemptor with conversion beamer

Troops: etc.

FA: Dreadclaw

HS: Deredeo

HS: Leviathan in drop pod

HS: Leviathan in drop pod

 

So first turn you drop two Leviathans to cut the enemy lines in half and the command squad dreadclaw tries to jink/hide somewhere safe.  On follow-up turns, you have scoring units in Terminators who can go ahead and disembark upon arrival to unload their guns, and then you can use the Dreadclaws as roaming transports that deal with hordes and can occasionally pick up a Contemptor to deny the enemy VPs if necessary.  Meanwhile, you have two rapier batteries, a deredeo, and X conversion contemptors blasting the crap out of everything.

 

This works even better if you have a character that can move stuff around, so if for example Horus is there to make terminators troops, you now can ditch the command squad for more scoring with furious charge veterans and/or more rapiers or whatever your heart desires.

 

This is also far more reasonable in what someone can be expected to purchase and get decently frequent use out of.  I could do the above list right now, I'd just need to order however many conversion beamers (or use kheres cannons, I already have those), and my collection is far from vast.  They are also all pieces that I will frequently use in other lists. 

 

Even if you have the disposable income to buy 15 contemptors or whatever, how often realistically will you get to use them before you get bored of just that one list?  How many opportunities for 6000 point games will you use up on just stomping around with dreadnoughts, when you could go bananas with unit upgrades and use all those combos you normally want to use but never have the points for, or show the 40K folks the true meaning of Superfriends by filling a Kharybdis with every Primarch you can get your hands on?

Edited March 17, 2016 by Terminus

[Theredknight]

So, I can’t see one and was looking in my ‘to do’ boxes.

Lo- did I discover 8 legion dreads (old needs repainting) 2 unassembled temptors and an unnassembled deredeo.

 

Got me thinking, what would be a good way to use these. Which legion should I make them. My first thought is blood angels (I already have 3 fisty temptors, dreadclaws and a Levi-drop pod) but would iron hands be a good mix?

What’s your thoughts on going full dread, or would you use it to shore up an infantry heavy army?

[Charlo]

Fury of the Ancients in itself, is total garbage sadly.

 

You need a Master of the Legion HQ to unlock it, then a Forge Lord AND a Primus Medicae... Then you you cannot seize the initiative, can't bring neither allies nor fortifications and each one of your dreads that dies (AV12, 3HP...) is a free VP to the opponent.

 

So it's better (and pretty much just as easy) to go dread heavy in a non-fury rite of war as Contemptors and Box-noughts can come in Talons for a single choice.